![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 22, 2004, at 14:16:44
Dr. Hsiung,
I am requesting that you make a determination as to the following being acceptable or not in relation to the guidlines of the forum.
I felt accused and put down by the following in NikkiT2's post 405913, not the post that I had requested the determination of, when I read it, for my request for a determination is only for you to make a determination, and I feel accused by the statement having the possible implication that my request for a determination being an unsubstantiated accusation, for I have made a request for a determination so that there would not be an accusation. The reason as follows.
The post of mine that the poster is citing writes;
[Dr. Hsiung,
I am requesting a determination as to if the following is acceptable in relation to the guidlines of the forum.]
It is not my authority to make a determination as to if a post is acceptable here, for I believe that it is your determination as to if a post is acceptable under the guidlines of the forum or not.
The request by me for you to make a determination as if the post is acceptable here, I feel has not been answered by you to me as to either it is or it isn't acceptable, for my request was for [... a determination as to if the following is acceptable in relation to the guidlines of the forum...]. I do not think that not answereing at all is to mean that the post is acceptable. There are many other reasons that the post could have went unanswerd. There was another post of mine that also went unanswered and you answered it at a later time. Dinah commented in some way that I thought that she was saying that you were taking time to consider your answer and I feel that you could be taking your time to consider your determination to the post in question here also.
If by you not saying yes or no to my request means that the post is acceptable, then that means, if you are saying that the post is acceptable by not responding either yes or no, that the phrase, [...and threatening to force to (expletive) his (expletive)...]is acceptable language here in a similar context. That is one determination that I thought needed to be made and if you are making the determination for that to be acceptable by not responding to my request for a determination, then I will have to accept that in future posts that langusge could be incorperated in a post without restraint in a similar context, and if this is so, could you write in your FAQ under [...offensive language...] by using the example in question here that one could write that under those circumststances to be acceptable? I really thought that the word(s) themselves were considered by you to be offensive words to be plainly visible, not needing to be pointed out to you, like the type that have been in the past restrained and posters were evicted for. I remember many posts about the use of a word similar in relation to human anatomy that was considerd by you to be an offensive word.
Lou Pilder
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041012/msgs/405913.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 22, 2004, at 14:47:03
In reply to Lou's response to NikkiT2's post 405913, posted by Lou Pilder on October 22, 2004, at 14:16:44
Dr. Hsiung,
Another reason that I am requesting that you make a determination as to if NikkiT'2 post to me,405913, not the original post that I had requested a determination about, is that NikkiT2 writes,[...I say that they are unsubstantiated as there was no reason given for why they could be {offensive} to others...].
I did not write that anything was, in the original post that I had requested a determination about, was {offensive}. My original request was for a dtermination as to [if the followingis acceptable in relation to the guidlines of the forum]. I think that these are two different things , for requesting a determination on acceptability is a request for the moderator to examine the post and make a decision on his own, not to be influenced by me. I feel that there are many aspects of the post that are plainly visible so that no identification of what needs to be determined as acceptable or not need to be pointed out. The moderator could answer something like,[...I do not think that the post is unacceptable]. In that case, if that happenes, one could then identify a spacific statement. Or the moderator could reply that such and such is unacceptable and that he sees it just as others could see it. NOw I feel that if I can see it, that others could see it also. The question though is is what can be seen acceptable under the guuidlines of the forum.
Other statements that i see that I consider to be offensive language on a mental-health forum, but could be considered acceptable by others and Dr. Hsiung are;
[...embarrassed the {expletive} out of me...]
[...he is a total{expletive} in my opinion...]
[...he said that he was going to get {expletive}...]
[...Thats {expletive}
[...punch the {expletive} out of me...]
I am only asking for a determination as to the acceptability or not of the statement by Dr, Hsinug. I feel that in a mental-health setting that these words used in their conrext are questionable to be acceptable here and I feel that if I do not recieve a determination from Dr. Hsiung that others could think that he endorses the use of those words here, and maybe he does, and that is why am requestin g the determination
Lou Pilder
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041012/msgs/405913.html
and the original post in question
http://www.dr-bob.org/bebble/2000/20040626/msgs/403804.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 22, 2004, at 15:15:49
In reply to Lou's response to NikkiT2's post 405913-2, posted by Lou Pilder on October 22, 2004, at 14:47:03
Dr. Hsiung,
Another reason that I had asked you for a determination is that I feel that it is plainly visible that potential suicide ideation is mentioned in the post and I feel that that has the potential to be needed to have you alerted to, and I felt that you could see it, for I see it, and intercede.
The statement in question is;
[...Now, theres only one thing I want to do..and have the tablets to do it..but I know I mustb;t..but don't know how I can stop myself.].
Now I feel that it is plainly visible to me what is written about suicide here in the post in question and do not think that Dr. Hsing needs for me or anyone else to point that out to him. That is why is asked Dr. Hsiung to make a determination. Not to evict Nikki T2 for what she wrote, for I have stated over and over that it is not my intention to have anyone evicted by requesting a determination, but for Dr. Hsiung to see the post because of the nature of the post having implications for {all} the members of the forum, not just me, and the poster also. So that is one reason that I feel accused and put down by posts that write that I am accusing others, for I am not accusing anyone, only requesting that Dr. Hsiung make a determination.
I feel that if words or statements do not appear offensive to others here, that that does not mean that I have to consider them unoffensive, because they could be offensive to others besides the ones here that wrote that they did not see any offensivness, if there were those here. And I consider that if no one sees a statement about suicide ideation, that that doesn't mean that I do not see one. I feel that if I did not request the determination, that perhaps the statement about [..the tablets...] and [...don't know how I can stop it...] could be held against me in my conscince in the future for not alerting the post.
Lou Pilder
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/2000/20040626/msgs/403804.html
Posted by Dinah on October 22, 2004, at 16:08:59
In reply to Lou's response to NikkiT2's post 405913-2 » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on October 22, 2004, at 15:15:49
Lou, it is against the rules on some message boards to discuss suicidal ideation. But, thankfully to me at least, it's not against the rules here. With depression, I find not discussing it is really the pink elephant in the room. Feeling that it's not a taboo subject not only allows for support, but it also reduces the menace of the thoughts (for me at least).
Posters do get concerned, and let Dr. Bob know about posts that scare them. If you ever get concerned about me from a post of mine, for example, I wouldn't be offended if you say "Hey, Dr. Bob. I'm concerned about Dinah. Could you take a look at this post?" With the expression of concern for my welfare in the alert, it would seem like a caring thing to do. But if you just said "Look at this post" without the expression of caring, it might reawaken all those scary thoughts of taboo in me.
Admittedly, it is scary when a poster, and especially a friend, expresses those thoughts. But wouldn't it be even scarier if they didn't feel free to express them here?
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 22, 2004, at 16:55:26
In reply to Re: Suicidal ideation » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on October 22, 2004, at 16:08:59
Dinah,
You wrote,[...it is not against the rules here...].
The rules here state,[...please don't...discuss spacific ways of harming themselves or others...].
In the post in question, the poster writes [...I have the tablets to do it...].
I hope that you could see my point of view in regards to this here.
Best regards,
Lou
Posted by Dinah on October 22, 2004, at 18:00:26
In reply to Re: Suicidal ideation » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on October 22, 2004, at 16:55:26
My understanding is that specific means things like xxxx mg of YYYY drug. Recipes or instructions on how to do it, in other words.
But I'm sure Dr. Bob can clarify.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 22, 2004, at 18:16:30
In reply to Re: Suicidal ideation » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on October 22, 2004, at 18:00:26
Dinah,
You wrote,[...it is my understanding ...]
It is my understanding that in reading the FAQ that there is the potential for one to think that the rule is a broad rule and your understanding could mean that it is a narrow rule.
I see the rule as saying to not advocate any means at all to harm others or yourself, regardless of how much or what kind, as in this case, tablets, for I think that there is a potential to arrouse the means of harming oneself by taking tablets and that is how I understand the rule. I understand the rule to mean that just the {mention} of harm is not permitted on the forum, and I wholheartedly agree with any rule to prevent people from thinking to harm themselves or others. I have been on other sites that have a restriction on both suicide posts, and posts that even suggest harm to oneself or others. I saw the post as the poster saying a way to harm herself in a spacific mode, [...the tablets to do so...].
I think that the rule could be seen both ways, I just happen to see it in the broad sense.
Perhaps more from Dr. Hsiung on that part of the FAQ will give more definition to the rule.
Best regards,
Lou
Posted by justyourlaugh on October 22, 2004, at 18:46:20
In reply to Re: Suicidal ideation » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on October 22, 2004, at 18:16:30
there has always been a fair amount of si and suicidal ideals..
"trigger" in the subject line is a great way to protect oneself.
should we pretend it does not exists?
jyl
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 22, 2004, at 18:53:58
In reply to Re: Suicidal ideation » Lou Pilder, posted by justyourlaugh on October 22, 2004, at 18:46:20
jyl,
I am not understanding what you mean about 'trigger" in the subject line and such.. Could you explaine?
Lou
Posted by justyourlaugh on October 22, 2004, at 19:05:56
In reply to Re: Suicidal ideation » justyourlaugh, posted by Lou Pilder on October 22, 2004, at 18:53:58
if i put a "trigger" in the subject line..
other posters will be aware i may be thinking of suicide or box cutters...
and have a choice not to open
jyl
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 22, 2004, at 19:11:21
In reply to trigger » Lou Pilder, posted by justyourlaugh on October 22, 2004, at 19:05:56
jyl,
Are you saying then that those who write posts that contain some sort of suicide language about themselves be requiered to put the word, "trigger" in the subject line?
Lou
Posted by Mary_Bowers on October 22, 2004, at 19:42:50
In reply to Re: Suicidal ideation » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on October 22, 2004, at 16:08:59
The difference between sites that allow messages about suicidal ideation and those that don't might be that those that don't allow it are covered by insurance policies. Insurers help the insured understand liabilities. Few people are likely to claim a tort for not being allowed to discuss suicidal ideation.
If it is neccessary to warn people that reading a post might lead to their self-inflicted death, is it not reasonable to conclude there might be a better, less public venue for that sort of conversation?
Is it fair for a site to rely on Internet Service Providers and local police to sort out the risk of suicide among people encouraged to discuss it on line, or would it be more productive in a virtual large group to invite discussion of issues related to sustaining life and direct those with suicidal ideation to venues better able to provide critical care?
Is the self-described benefit to a few people of being allowed to discuss suicidal ideation greater than the associtated risk recognized among the vast majority of administrators at similar self-help groups?
Posted by justyourlaugh on October 22, 2004, at 22:16:42
In reply to Re: Suicidal ideation and liability, posted by Mary_Bowers on October 22, 2004, at 19:42:50
mary mary mary,
"venues better able to provide critical care"
?
i thought this was a mental health forum..
suicidal ideations at their worse..in my thinking is a person not beating their illness...or struggling
if i was dying of cancer, could i not post my pain and "near death" experience on a cancer board?
maybe i am off topic here...
i wouldnt concider this a self help group...
sometimes help is cried and still no one will answer..
i feel this is an information site..
a place to speak
sometimes things we can not say to anyone else..
it is a great place to feel you are not suffering alone...
jyl
Posted by justyourlaugh on October 22, 2004, at 22:18:01
In reply to Re: trigger » justyourlaugh, posted by Lou Pilder on October 22, 2004, at 19:11:21
i thought that is what we were doing?
j
Posted by Mary_Bowers on October 23, 2004, at 0:37:32
In reply to Re: Suicidal ideation and liability » Mary_Bowers, posted by justyourlaugh on October 22, 2004, at 22:16:42
> it is a great place to feel you are not suffering alone...
> jyl
>For some people it is a place to learn that if you don't do what the doctor says, you will suffer alone.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 23, 2004, at 6:48:54
In reply to Lou's response to NikkiT2's post 405913, posted by Lou Pilder on October 22, 2004, at 14:16:44
> I am requesting that you make a determination as to the following being acceptable or not in relation to the guidlines of the forum.
> I felt accused and put downI'm sorry if this is rough for you, but I'm going to let it stand. Please see:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041012/msgs/406291.html
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.