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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 51. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by newwife on October 9, 2004, at 19:54:56
you know i should not even have to be careful how to word my stuff, i should be able to write without being scared of getting in trouble. also, did you ever stop to think that what you consider un civil some might not. so how is it my fault if i type something you consider un civil if i dont even know it is. who died and made you the master and commander of a support group website. i feel like you are a mean teacher who takes posts out of context and i dont think anything on my post was un civil and if you want to band me go ahead, freedom of speech dr bob? remember that??? go ahead and band me, i bet atleast 5 other people agree with my post and dont think its uncivil. they are just scared to agree in fear of getting booted. i dont care, i dont agree with you and i bet you are not even a dr. if you were then you would be more understanding about how people think differently and if you want a social opinion giving website then quit punishing people that try to say how they feel. go ahead and kick me off, i have made friends and we can communicate off this website. i thought the admin section was to voice concerns. guess not. i refuse to let you put words in my mouth, i never said force him to leave. dont make me look bad. i was really nice by not dropping names. anyone can make something un civil if they try. mine was not. i am a nice 23 year old newlywed that has never tried to offend anyone and you have managed to hurt my feelings. happy? how is that for uncivil?
Posted by fayeroe on October 9, 2004, at 21:43:27
In reply to one last thing..dr bob, posted by newwife on October 9, 2004, at 19:54:56
After reading your post, I wanted to add this. I feel that the scariest thing about this place is that Bob is a psychiatrist. I know that you didn't intend for your post to be taken the way it was. I'm sorry that you've had this bad experience. Pat
Posted by newwife on October 9, 2004, at 21:45:45
In reply to Re: one last thing..dr bob » newwife, posted by fayeroe on October 9, 2004, at 21:43:27
thanks, i am sorry too. oh well. :(
Posted by Toph on October 9, 2004, at 22:29:51
In reply to one last thing..dr bob, posted by newwife on October 9, 2004, at 19:54:56
I have spent entirely too much time here, but I want to share something personal with you newwife. Many years ago I kept bouncing in and out of the psych ward because I was too proud to accept that I was bipolar. So again I was in the hospital manic as hell when this new shrink came into my room to treat me. He was an older guy and I don't remember what he said, probably something appropriate, but I was a psychotic, oppositional wise*ss who was above therapy. Well, I threw a bowl of jello at him and just missed his head. He didn't even flinch and surprisingly I didn't get restraints. To make a long story short, he so seemed to understand me that I started taking Lithium. I haven't seen the inside of a psych ward in 23 years.
Newwife, you just threw some jello at Bob. I just hope he will know what to do.
-Toph
Posted by newwife on October 9, 2004, at 22:32:27
In reply to Re: one last thing..dr bob » newwife, posted by Toph on October 9, 2004, at 22:29:51
i dont get your post. are you saying i belong in a physc ward. i did not throw jello, i threw my feelings. but thanks anyways.
Posted by Toph on October 9, 2004, at 22:43:39
In reply to Re: one last thing..dr bob, posted by newwife on October 9, 2004, at 22:32:27
God no, jess. I had a doctor who understood anger and illness. Throwing jello is a metaphor for you getting pissed at Bob. I hope he will understand and reward not punish you for being honest and direct. Sorry if you misunderstood my story.
Posted by newwife on October 9, 2004, at 22:55:09
In reply to Re: one last thing..dr bob, posted by Toph on October 9, 2004, at 22:43:39
now i get it. sorry i am blond, i tend to get confused, just kidding. thanks for the story it is one that will stick with me.
Posted by gardenergirl on October 9, 2004, at 23:55:47
In reply to Re: one last thing..dr bob--toph, posted by newwife on October 9, 2004, at 22:55:09
Just have to throw a funny in here...if it's jello, won't it stick ON you?
Lame, I know. It's what I do in conflict.
Be well,
gg
Posted by newwife on October 9, 2004, at 23:58:35
In reply to Re: one last thing..dr bob--toph » newwife, posted by gardenergirl on October 9, 2004, at 23:55:47
Posted by Toph on October 10, 2004, at 1:55:27
In reply to Re: one last thing..dr bob--toph » newwife, posted by gardenergirl on October 9, 2004, at 23:55:47
Posted by alexandra_k on October 10, 2004, at 19:48:54
In reply to one last thing..dr bob, posted by newwife on October 9, 2004, at 19:54:56
> you know i should not even have to be careful how to word my stuff, i should be able to write without being scared of getting in trouble.
Though the only reason one 'gets into trouble' is because one says something that could lead to others feeling accused or put down. Is it too much to ask that people not post anything that could cause others to feel offended or put down? Some people are more sensitive to that than others, of course, but isn't it a nice idea at least, that one should refrain from hurting others to the best of ones ability?
>also, did you ever stop to think that what you consider un civil some might not. so how is it my fault if i type something you consider un civil if i dont even know it is.
If you didn't understand what was considered to be uncivil about those two points, then it may have been useful to ask.
>who died and made you the master and commander of a support group website.
Ouch. Dr. Bob kindly donates his time and moderates this site.
>i feel like you are a mean teacher who takes posts out of context and i dont think anything on my post was un civil and if you want to band me go ahead, freedom of speech dr bob? remember that??? go ahead and band me, i bet atleast 5 other people agree with my post and dont think its uncivil. they are just scared to agree in fear of getting booted. i dont care, i dont agree with you and i bet you are not even a dr. if you were then you would be more understanding about how people think differently and if you want a social opinion giving website then quit punishing people that try to say how they feel. go ahead and kick me off, i have made friends and we can communicate off this website. i thought the admin section was to voice concerns. guess not. i refuse to let you put words in my mouth, i never said force him to leave. dont make me look bad. i was really nice by not dropping names. anyone can make something un civil if they try. mine was not. i am a nice 23 year old newlywed that has never tried to offend anyone and you have managed to hurt my feelings. happy? how is that for uncivil?
It seems to me that you do not understand why those aspects of your post were considered uncivil. Why don't you try to understand that (by asking) before resorting to personal attacks?
Posted by Toph on October 10, 2004, at 20:13:34
In reply to Re: one last thing..dr bob » newwife, posted by alexandra_k on October 10, 2004, at 19:48:54
I think it must be very difficult for Bob to review a thread after the fact. I really got rapped up in the heat of last night's thread of Jess'. He may find that I posted something in which he sensed contempt, but can fair post mortem judgements be made when you weren't there in real time? I think, for example, that some of Jess' ire in her second thread was fueled by others (including myself) who chastized Bob for what he asked her. I hope he can take that into consideration when he looks at the specifics of what she said. When a topic is hot, it's not just a series of detached carefully thought out statements. There is real emotion during a flurry of posts.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 10, 2004, at 20:19:34
In reply to Re: one last thing..dr bob, posted by Toph on October 10, 2004, at 20:13:34
> I think it must be very difficult for Bob to review a thread after the fact. I really got rapped up in the heat of last night's thread of Jess'. He may find that I posted something in which he sensed contempt, but can fair post mortem judgements be made when you weren't there in real time? I think, for example, that some of Jess' ire in her second thread was fueled by others (including myself) who chastized Bob for what he asked her. I hope he can take that into consideration when he looks at the specifics of what she said. When a topic is hot, it's not just a series of detached carefully thought out statements. There is real emotion during a flurry of posts.
I suppose that in reviewing a thread one can only go by the objective words on the page, and consider whether they imply judgement or offence to others. It is hard to be careful with what one says when one is caught up in the emotion of the moment. Thats when I find it helpful to try and distance myself from what I have written as much as possible and read through what I have written as objectively as I can before I hit 'submit'.
Posted by Toph on October 10, 2004, at 20:36:03
In reply to Re: one last thing..dr bob » Toph, posted by alexandra_k on October 10, 2004, at 20:19:34
But Alexandra, can't a website hosted by a physician who has published about the therapeutic potentials of the internet have a real time dynamic like a chat room or a group therapy session? Isn't there a place for spontaneity, emotion and flow in discourse here? I was amazed how last night people rallied around Jes when she was so upset and seemed to carefully bring her to a calmer state. All that work (to use a clinical term) is lost in sanctions imposed hours later. I'm not anti-civility, just pro fairness and compassion.
-Toph
Posted by alexandra_k on October 10, 2004, at 20:47:28
In reply to Re: one last thing..dr bob » alexandra_k, posted by Toph on October 10, 2004, at 20:36:03
> But Alexandra, can't a website hosted by a physician who has published about the therapeutic potentials of the internet have a real time dynamic like a chat room or a group therapy session? Isn't there a place for spontaneity, emotion and flow in discourse here?
So long as people don't post anything that could lead to others feeling accused or put down, sure. The trouble is that I, for one do not take so much trouble to be civil in my 'real world' or 'real time' interactions. In posting here I get the chance to really think about what I am saying and the effects that that may have on a reader before I hit the 'submit' key. What takes a lot of working out now may become automatic and occur in real time interactions eventually. It is harder, though. It is a skill that must be worked on and developed.
Posted by newwife on October 10, 2004, at 22:05:10
In reply to Re: one last thing..dr bob » Toph, posted by alexandra_k on October 10, 2004, at 20:47:28
did you forget that he hurt my feelings? i guess so.
Posted by newwife on October 10, 2004, at 22:09:34
In reply to Re: one last thing..dr bob » alexandra_k, posted by Toph on October 10, 2004, at 20:36:03
i think we are forgetting that we are have real true emotions and we get hurt and mad. i did read through my post a million times. once again, we all take things out of context no matter how careful people are with there posts. its pretty wierd that we have yet to hear from bob, it took him no time to jot down his message to me, but i am suppossed to read caredfully through my posts. pleeeeeeeeeease, are the rules not for him to?
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 11, 2004, at 5:40:05
In reply to Re: one last thing..dr bob-alex, posted by newwife on October 10, 2004, at 22:05:10
> i feel like you are a mean teacher
> they are just scared to agree> did you forget that he hurt my feelings? i guess so.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Atticus on October 11, 2004, at 11:01:49
In reply to Re: please be civil » newwife, posted by Dr. Bob on October 11, 2004, at 5:40:05
Jesus, Bobby, you are really something. I feel angry that you appear to believe you are above the very rules that you set for everyone else. Specifically, the ubiquitous PBC line you toss out: "Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down." I feel, like so many others who posted, that your response to newwife contained uncalled-for and unjustifiable elements of sarcasm and mean-spiritedness. In any case, she unambiguously told you that she felt "hurt and put down" by the remark. No guesswork or interpretation required on your part to see that under the PBC rules, you earned yourself a PBC. The number of posts you let go by before actually responding to her about your "asking them to leave" remark was also very noticeable. You left her hanging in the wind for a long time. Then there's the notion you introduce about making the guests feel unwelcome by saying they can always go elsewhere. I feel this is a cheap shot and a non-sequitor. It does seem very clear from her posts that YOU made her feel unwelcome. Give it up, Bobby -- cut out the bullsh**. I'd like to see you just admit you stepped over the line in your response. Admitting to a mistake won't kill you. After all, you did once (and only once) on PB before, way back in 2002. And you're still breathing. I feel frustrated -- like so many others -- that what you've perfected on Psycho-Babble is the art of creating the illusion that you're responding without actually providing a substantial response at all. I perceive you as a master of rhetorical misdirection. Online psych forums may have a future, but to be honest, I don't feel you're the ideal person to be refereeing a site such as this. I just perceive far too many of your judgments as being off target and your responses dismissive. Maybe it's time to pass the baton on PB. Atticus
Posted by verne on October 11, 2004, at 11:57:30
In reply to The Doctrine of Bob Infallibility, posted by Atticus on October 11, 2004, at 11:01:49
Ever see the Caine Mutiny or read the book? I better double q it: "The Caine Mutiny". When I saw the movie as a kid I just thought the Captain was deranged and completely wrong but in later viewings, I realized the crew was also to blame. They turned an eccentric captain into a madman. The captain (Bogart) makes an issue over a quart of missing strawberries but the crew, in turn, made it an even bigger issue and things escalated from there. Perhaps that's the point (or one of the points) of the book.
verne
Posted by Toph on October 11, 2004, at 15:01:14
In reply to Re: The Doctrine of Bob Infallibility, posted by verne on October 11, 2004, at 11:57:30
I'm not sure what you are trying to communicate with this reference, Verne, is it that Newwife, Attica, and the rest of us ought not act muntinously or we may drive Bob mad? Was it Captain Queeg's rigidity and inability to empathize with his crew that caused his demise? I can't remember the movie well but perhaps this quote from the movie says something about his downfall: "...there are four ways of doing things on board my ship. The right way, the wrong way, the Navy way, and my way. (If) They do things my way, we'll get along...(Queeg)?"
Posted by verne on October 11, 2004, at 15:28:21
In reply to Re: The Doctrine of Bob Infallibility » verne, posted by Toph on October 11, 2004, at 15:01:14
The reason I mentioned the book is that it probes the nature of mutiny. I'm not suggesting Dr. Bob will be driven mad, join the navy, suddenly misplace a quart of strawberries, or anything in particular.
I am suggesting that like the captain, Dr. Bob is the authority, and we the posters, the "crew". And that like a navy ship, the HMS Babble has rules.
verne
Posted by Toph on October 11, 2004, at 15:36:05
In reply to Re: The Doctrine of Bob Infallibility » Toph, posted by verne on October 11, 2004, at 15:28:21
OK, I was just reacting to the ascribing blame part of your original post. I've been spendiing entirely too much time here, and I don't have my sea legs yet. -Toph
Posted by newwife on October 11, 2004, at 15:51:36
In reply to The Doctrine of Bob Infallibility, posted by Atticus on October 11, 2004, at 11:01:49
Posted by Atticus on October 11, 2004, at 16:14:09
In reply to Re: The Doctrine of Bob Infallibility, posted by verne on October 11, 2004, at 11:57:30
I guess my response would be that despite his extensive training and experience, certain character traits made the captain of the Caine unsuitable for his position of leadership, and this capriciousness (or even the perception of it among his subordinates) turned his crew against him. His unresponsiveness to the situation didn't help. Perhaps, in this instance, one might infer that an advanced psychiatric degree does not necessarily translate into management and administrative skills. Atticus
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