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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jonathan on August 15, 2004, at 12:32:36
In reply to Re: for those is grief, posted by bobby boy on August 13, 2004, at 14:34:08
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/grief/20040811/msgs/377258.html
Is this appropriate? I'd certainly have felt upset if such a post had appeared on the thread I started a few years ago when my Dad died.
I know you don't like deleting posts (except when they should never have appeared because the poster was blocked), but PB Grief is special. Please at least consider redirecting this post to another board (to preserve its content somewhere on the site, if you so wish) and removing all trace of it from PB Grief.
Jonathan.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 15, 2004, at 17:16:53
In reply to Advertising on PB Grief board » Dr. Bob, posted by Jonathan on August 15, 2004, at 12:32:36
> Is this appropriate? I'd certainly have felt upset if such a post had appeared on the thread I started a few years ago when my Dad died.
How would you have felt then? What's appropriate and how to respond to what's not has been an issue recently, have you looked through some of the other threads here?
Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on August 16, 2004, at 13:12:43
In reply to Re: Advertising on PB Grief board, posted by Dr. Bob on August 15, 2004, at 17:16:53
> > Is this appropriate? I'd certainly have felt upset if such a post had appeared on the thread I started a few years ago when my Dad died.
>
> How would you have felt then? What's appropriate and how to respond to what's not has been an issue recently, have you looked through some of the other threads here?
>
> BobSigh. Um, Bob, he *says* how he would have felt ("upset"). His question is not at all addressed in the other threads (to the best of my memory), and I don't see how reviewing them could be answer his specific question. In addition, I seem to recall you deleting or at least PBCing advertisements in the past, such as the one for the resort-like treatment center.
What gives?
gg
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 17, 2004, at 2:55:12
In reply to Re: Advertising on PB Grief board » Dr. Bob, posted by gardenergirl on August 16, 2004, at 13:12:43
> > > Is this appropriate? I'd certainly have felt upset if such a post had appeared on the thread I started a few years ago when my Dad died.
> >
> > How would you have felt then? What's appropriate and how to respond to what's not has been an issue recently, have you looked through some of the other threads here?
>
> Sigh. Um, Bob, he *says* how he would have felt ("upset").Fair enough. But upset in what way? I'm afraid it would be too broad just to ask people not to post anything that could lead others to feel upset.
> His question is not at all addressed in the other threads (to the best of my memory), and I don't see how reviewing them could be answer his specific question.
I thought possible options might include him not reading posts by certain posters or me asking them to be more sensitive to the feeling of others...
> In addition, I seem to recall you deleting or at least PBCing advertisements in the past, such as the one for the resort-like treatment center.
Can you be more specific? I'd be interested in taking another look, but that doesn't ring a bell...
Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on August 17, 2004, at 8:35:02
In reply to Re: Advertising on PB Grief board, posted by Dr. Bob on August 17, 2004, at 2:55:12
>
> Can you be more specific? I'd be interested in taking another look, but that doesn't ring a bell...
>
> BobSorry, but I can't find it in a google search or archives. All I remember is the poster's name was the same as the center.
gg
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 17, 2004, at 22:03:54
In reply to Re: Advertising on PB Grief board, posted by gardenergirl on August 17, 2004, at 8:35:02
> Sorry, but I can't find it in a google search or archives. All I remember is the poster's name was the same as the center.
OK, well, thanks for looking. Let me know if it comes to you...
Bob
Posted by Shar on August 19, 2004, at 23:59:15
In reply to Advertising on PB Grief board » Dr. Bob, posted by Jonathan on August 15, 2004, at 12:32:36
My first response is...ewwwwwwww.
This is like cyber-evangelism.
I volunteer for the local non-profit hospice org, one of the only in-patient facilities in my state, where people come mainly to die (some for symptom control).
And, I've loved and lost my dad as a teen.
I don't think, from my training, education, and personal experience, there is an easy-squeezy way out of dealing with the loss of a loved one. Especially in the U.S. where grief is handled differently than most of the rest of the world handles it.
"What if there is a way to experience loss with far less pain, far less grief and far more quickly?"
Does this not sound like an infomercial?
"What if, for the first time in human history we could learn how to pass through loss with new insight and freedom?"
Well, if something happened now, dealing with grief, for the first time in human history, that would be totally amazing. Think of the timeline being talked about here!
"Well all of this is now possible! It has been possilble for the last 20 years but very few people have been told about it.
It has been a BIG SECRET!!!"Totally infomercial-speak, IMHO.
Nor, do I think there is a happy-go-lucky way to dissolve it all. Surely, those of us here have tried all the easy answers already for a very varied range of conditions and life circumstances.
I think it is great that "someone" has found an answer, but I can't see myself bursting into some patient's hospice room, family present, patient on death bed and saying ..."Hey!!! Have I got great news for you all...and 'til now it's been a BIG SECRET!!" Just go to this website...it's FREE, yes FREE...etc.
I find it most offensive, in fact.
I think there needs to be some sort of respect about how hard it is to lose a loved one, and respect for the process of bereavement, and I disagree with the idea that we can "woohoo! Instantly not feel bad any more It's so easy!!!!"
I think it is very disrespectful. From personal experience, and experience with dying people and their families.
Then again, it ain't my board.
Only my HO.
Shar
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 20, 2004, at 7:35:09
In reply to Re: Advertising on PB Grief board...ewwwww, posted by Shar on August 19, 2004, at 23:59:15
> I think there needs to be some sort of respect about how hard it is to lose a loved one, and respect for the process of bereavement, and I disagree with the idea that we can "woohoo! Instantly not feel bad any more It's so easy!!!!"
IMO, those are separate issues, whether something works and whether it's presented in a respectful way. Would it necessarily be disrespectful to suggest to someone that there might be things they can do to feel less depressed?
Bob
Posted by Shar on August 20, 2004, at 16:32:13
In reply to Re: Advertising on PB Grief board, posted by Dr. Bob on August 20, 2004, at 7:35:09
Yes, I do decidedly believe that people can find ways to alleviate some of the pain, physical problems, and depression associated with bereavement. And those things can conveyed in a most respectful and thoughtful manner. In my opinion, the wording of the following (from the post in question) is neither respectful or thoughtful, nor would I inflict it upon a grieving family, nor would I want it inflicted upon me:
"What if what we have been told about all aspects of grieving is wrong?
What if there is a way to experience loss with far less pain, far less grief and far more quickly?
What if, for the first time in human history we could learn how to pass through loss with new insight and freedom?
Well all of this is now possible! It has been possilble for the last 20 years but very few people have been told about it.
It has been a BIG SECRET!!!
The brakethough came when it was discovered that
grief is NOT in the "mind", as we have been told, but in the "body"! And to free ones's self from emotional pain is as simple as touching or "tapping", easy to find, "points" on one's own body (no one else need be present). This releases the pain and the grief that the BODY holds and that can not be reached though the mind!!!
THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE FREE!" ...etc.Perhaps, instead of making it sound like an infomercial, someone could have simply said "Here is a unique way I found to deal with grief, and it might help you, too." But, I think it is inappropriate for the grief board in its present format, and I also believe it contains assumptions and information that are not accurate (based on my own bereavement and hospice training and experience).
But, like I said, it ain't my board.
Shar
> > I think there needs to be some sort of respect about how hard it is to lose a loved one, and respect for the process of bereavement, and I disagree with the idea that we can "woohoo! Instantly not feel bad any more It's so easy!!!!"
>
> IMO, those are separate issues, whether something works and whether it's presented in a respectful way. Would it necessarily be disrespectful to suggest to someone that there might be things they can do to feel less depressed?
>
> Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 21, 2004, at 5:19:07
In reply to Re: Advertising on PB Grief board » Dr. Bob, posted by Shar on August 20, 2004, at 16:32:13
> Perhaps, instead of making it sound like an infomercial, someone could have simply said "Here is a unique way I found to deal with grief, and it might help you, too."
I prefer your version, too :-) but thinking ahead, what exactly makes something infomercial-like? And that would apply to posts about depression as well as grief?
Bob
Posted by Shar on August 23, 2004, at 23:25:39
In reply to Re: Advertising on PB Grief board » Dr. Bob, posted by Shar on August 20, 2004, at 16:32:13
Bob,
What makes something sound like an infomercial to me is the 'too good to be true' aspect. And, the part of it that just doesn't seem to hold water (IMO). And, yes, if you could substitute the word depression for grief/grieving/etc. in the post (part of which is presented below, modified for depression and other mood disorders) it would also apply to depression, OCD, BPI, BPII, MPD, etc. IMHO. If I thought I could get rid of my dysthymia with clinical episodes by tapping upon parts of my body, I'd not be here now. And, if I thought the folks I see weekly losing loved ones could eliminate grief by tapping parts of THEIR bodies, I would most definitely tell them. But, I think it's not true. Both are very complex and not likely resolved by tapping one's body.I assume if tapping were the answer to grief, you would have a big section on it in the FAQ.
Shar
> "What if what we have been told about all aspects of [depression, OCD, BPI, BPII, MPD/grieving] is wrong?
> What if there is a way to experience [loss/these problems] with far less pain, far less [grief/whatever] and far more quickly?
> What if, for the first time in human history we could learn how to pass through [loss/these problems] with new insight and freedom?
> Well all of this is now possible! It has been possilble for the last 20 years but very few people have been told about it.
> It has been a BIG SECRET!!! (definitely infomercial language to me!! Shar)
> The brakethough (not how I would have spelled it. Shar) came when it was discovered that
> [depression, OCD, BPI, BPII, MPD, grief] is NOT in the "mind", as we have been told, but in the "body"! And to free ones's self from emotional pain is as simple as touching or "tapping", easy to find, "points" on one's own body (no one else need be present). This releases the pain and the [depression, OCD, BPI, BPII, MPD] that the BODY holds and that can not be reached though the mind!!!
> THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE FREE!"Yet, again, it ain't my board!
Shar
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 24, 2004, at 16:04:52
In reply to Re: Advertising on PB Grief board.....Bob, posted by Shar on August 23, 2004, at 23:25:39
> What makes something sound like an infomercial to me is the 'too good to be true' aspect.
>
> If I thought I could get rid of my dysthymia with clinical episodes by tapping upon parts of my body, I'd not be here now. And, if I thought the folks I see weekly losing loved ones could eliminate grief by tapping parts of THEIR bodies, I would most definitely tell them. But, I think it's not true. Both are very complex and not likely resolved by tapping one's body.It can be hard to know what to believe. Some people may think getting rid of depression by taking a pill is too good to be true. I don't know, maybe tapping could be like acupuncture?
If someone thinks something's too good to be true, it's fine for them to post something skeptical, though as we've seen, that can be tricky, too. :-)
The FAQ does address deciding what information to trust:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#trust
and posting information that one knows to be false:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
But I think presenting it sensitively may be more of an issue. I'll try to be more attentive to that.
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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