![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 32. Go back in thread:
Posted by fayeroe on March 27, 2003, at 16:45:01
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site » fayeroe , posted by mair on March 27, 2003, at 15:42:04
thank you. i appreciate your interaction also. pat
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 28, 2003, at 9:25:32
In reply to controlling/moderation of this site, posted by fayeroe on March 27, 2003, at 7:11:10
> I posted a short sentence that it seemed things were getting "anal"...this also involved Pax. You came back and told us to be civil. I apologized to Lou. Other people receive "thank yous" when they apologize. I received nada. From you. But Lou was gracious and accepted it.
Sorry about leaving you out. Was your post in that thread, too? I'm still not caught up yet...
> Yesterday on "social" there was a huge chunk of time taken by someone who is obviously really needing help and you didn't intervene.
OK, I'll check there next, but it may not be until later...
> I would think that you would, more than anyone, know that the people are here BECAUSE they have problems in the first place. "Everyone stars in their own movie".....you produce, direct and star. In the short time I've been on here because I am depressed and having really tough times right now, I've become very disappointed and disenchanted with your project... I know that people can help each other over the internet. But I think you're a too heavy-handed and controlling in trying to impose your beliefs and values upon people who are here because they need a place to feel a part of a "like" community.
I'm sorry you've been disappointed with this project, but thanks for your input. I guess I do produce, but it's awfully hard to direct anyone here, and you posters are the stars, not me.
Bob
Posted by bozeman on March 29, 2003, at 14:18:40
In reply to controlling/moderation of this site, posted by fayeroe on March 27, 2003, at 7:11:10
Pat
I am sorry that you are (apparently) feeling so disappointed and frustrated with the situation, and I certainly understand where you're coming from. Soon I intend to query Dr. Bob on some of these subjects -- not as criticism, but as clarification of the boundaries so I too can feel more safe. I felt extremely powerless and helpless as the drama you referred to on PSB played out . . . powerless to help defuse it, helpless to offer support or moderation to what was obviously a misunderstanding (regardless of the personal dynamics behind it on either side.) I was torn by my "white knight on a horse" instincts to gallop to jyl's defense, but paralyzed to find a way to do so without risking being blocked myself because I don't think I understand fully enough what the boundaries are. If I got myself blocked, I'm no help to anyone -- but is getting blocked while defending someone else a worthy enough endeavor that the block is worth in considering the value in support it gives the person you are defending? But due to the "progressive discipline" approach to blocking, (which I do agree with, by the way, most of the time at least) -- is it worth it to blow my first "offense" in someone else's defense? Would this exempt me from the "double duration" progression if and when and if I say or do something worthy of intervention in the future?
Once I can clarify my thoughts and ask for specific solutions, I plan to bring up these things with Dr. Bob. But I'm still too unclear on my own feelings and role, that I'm not going to ask until I can clarify things well enough he doesn't have to write me a book in response, as I know how much work moderating this site must be.
What I want to say to you is, I truly deeply appreciate the honesty and passion you have brought to this forum, and your well-defined thoughts and ideas. It is rare to find someone with both open-mindedness and strong opinions, and I feel like you have both. I fully understand if you feel like you are gaining more stress than it's worth to continue here, but I hope that's a decision you reach in reason and not in passion (if that makes any sense.) I have been deeply touched by your voice and support in the short time you've been here, and will miss you if you decide you must go. I know you have a very full life and lots of things pulling you in different directions, and am amazed at your ability to keep it all together. I wish you only the very best, and want you to know that you have made a lasting impression on me. May God bless you always.
Peace and love to you and yours
bozeman
Posted by fayeroe on March 29, 2003, at 15:16:46
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site » fayeroe , posted by bozeman on March 29, 2003, at 14:18:40
Bozeman: thank you so very much for your wonderful words of understanding. You've made me feel much better about my decisions concerning the moderation of the site. I've really felt pretty much like an outsider on the site and really do appreciate your comments. I was so stressed over that situation that was going on that day and couldn't really see a reason for it. We're all here because we made the choice to be here and mostly because we are ill and want to belong somewhere. I isolate myself tremendously here in my town and was so relieved to find others who feel like i do. wordfan is one. you.
many more. i don't think i made the decision out of passion but reason. I had tossed and turned in bed thinking about it and decided that I had to fish or cut bait!!! xxoxoxo pat
Posted by justyourlaugh on March 29, 2003, at 15:40:21
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site » bozeman, posted by fayeroe on March 29, 2003, at 15:16:46
fay,,i live in a small town...
i only leave the house to get groceries or drive the kids about...
i dont feel connected to"anything"outside my door..
i feel trapped in myself and my dissosociated world...
booze..that was such a nice post to read today from you...
thankyou
peace
jyl(but mojo@jays now)
Posted by mair on March 29, 2003, at 21:11:33
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site » bozeman, posted by fayeroe on March 29, 2003, at 15:16:46
Pat
I, too, live in a small town which is part of a more populous area, but hardly a metropolis by any measure. For the most part I always felt the need to be very private about my depression which also meant that I isolated myself and limited my support resources. Finding this site for the first time was wonderful. It's definitely helped my feel less isolated much of the time and I think it's helped me reach a level of comfort with my illness so that I no longer feel as guarded about it or as defensive anyway. One thing that happens when you keep your illness secret is that you don't find out about anyone else's either. This site made me realize that there were lots of people like me.
I've certainly had my ups and downs with this site and I find that i periodically have to take breaks. I've also gotten a little better about avoiding posters or threads that I know are going to upset me for one reason or another and I've gotten a better sense of what administrative battles can be fought and which ones are a waste of time and emotional energy. You sort of have to find the right balance so you can draw positive things from the Board without being pulled down by negative things.
All of this is a very round about way of saying that if you do leave, I hope you look at it as a temporary absence. I think you've added alot and I think there are things we can offer you, particularly if you are as isolated as you say. You may just need to keep plugging away to figure out your right balance.
Mair
PS: Virtually every old timer on this Board has announced that he or she was leaving at least once only to keep return later. Later was sometimes the next day. Don't feel that you've boxed yourself in.
Posted by fayeroe on March 29, 2003, at 21:27:22
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site » fayeroe , posted by mair on March 29, 2003, at 21:11:33
mair, if i worried about boxing myself in...i would be in the basement by now! as my oldest sister says "i can always make a decision...it may be the wrong one, but it's a decision."
i'm still posting on the book site and loving it.
my main concern here is with the fact that so many of the people need to feel a part of a community that is pretty much unconditional and i am not seeing that. so, i'm reading all the responses to me and treasuring each one and moving along. i was so pleased that today, while i made greeting cards, that i found the NCAA tournament on internet radio! so i've had a pretty fabulous day. thank you so much for your caring. pat
Posted by bozeman on March 30, 2003, at 1:04:16
In reply to fay-booze, posted by justyourlaugh on March 29, 2003, at 15:40:21
You are welcome, jyl
I'm glad to see you feeling better. You sound good.
I meant everything I said and I will see you around, at jay's if not here. Take care and do what you need to to feel safe and good about yourself, OK? Remember we love you, and so do I.Peace and hugs (from one artist-girl to another :-)
bozeman
Posted by Dinah on March 30, 2003, at 8:14:56
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site » fayeroe , posted by bozeman on March 29, 2003, at 14:18:40
I hope Dr. Bob is able to answer a few of your questions about the civility rules. But I just wanted to reassure you of a few points. The administrative actions aren't always linear. Dr. Bob never blocks anyone, no matter how grave the offense, without giving a warning, and never blocks anyone for more than one week without blocking them for a week first, no matter how grave the offense.
However, just because you receive a PBC, it doesn't automatically mean that you'll be blocked next time. And just because you were blocked one week last time, doesn't mean this time will be two. It just means Dr. Bob can do it, not that he will. He uses a lot of discretion, but always in favor of reducing the administrative action.
And you seem to have a real talent with words, and I'm pretty sure can offer support in positive terms rather than negative terms, which is always ok.
If you glance over the administrative actions, you can see a pretty reliable pattern to them (with the occasional glaring exception). Which doesn't mean you can predict Dr. Bob's actions exactly. But that in retrospect his reasons are clear enough (almost always).
Posted by fayeroe on March 30, 2003, at 10:57:51
In reply to Re: fay-booze » justyourlaugh, posted by bozeman on March 30, 2003, at 1:04:16
calling all girl artists! let's grab a cup of tea and talk about our next project. see you at jay's.
jyl, thanks for your message! pat
Posted by fayeroe on March 30, 2003, at 11:19:06
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site » bozeman, posted by Dinah on March 30, 2003, at 8:14:56
> I hope Dr. Bob is able to answer a few of your questions about the civility rules. But I just wanted to reassure you of a few points. The administrative actions aren't always linear. Dr. Bob never blocks anyone, no matter how grave the offense, without giving a warning, and never blocks anyone for more than one week without blocking them for a week first, no matter how grave the offense.
>
> However, just because you receive a PBC, it doesn't automatically mean that you'll be blocked next time. And just because you were blocked one week last time, doesn't mean this time will be two. It just means Dr. Bob can do it, not that he will. He uses a lot of discretion, but always in favor of reducing the administrative action.
>
> And you seem to have a real talent with words, and I'm pretty sure can offer support in positive terms rather than negative terms, which is always ok.
>
> If you glance over the administrative actions, you can see a pretty reliable pattern to them (with the occasional glaring exception). Which doesn't mean you can predict Dr. Bob's actions exactly. But that in retrospect his reasons are clear enough (almost always).Thanks, Dinah. I think I have a pretty good overview because I've read most of the recent posts. I appreciate your comments very much and I would hope to make a positive contribution because we all need it. I enjoy your posts very much. You are very insightful. Pat
Posted by noa on March 30, 2003, at 12:21:22
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site » fayeroe , posted by mair on March 29, 2003, at 21:11:33
I took a long break once when things got too heated here.
And another break for a while when I was too busy.
And I'm here now.
Mair's right. Sometimes a break is good, but it doesn't have to be final.
Posted by fayeroe on March 30, 2003, at 12:23:48
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site, posted by noa on March 30, 2003, at 12:21:22
> I took a long break once when things got too heated here.
>
> And another break for a while when I was too busy.
>
> And I'm here now.
>
> Mair's right. Sometimes a break is good, but it doesn't have to be final.thanks, noa! i really appreciate your comments. i enjoy your posts and am glad that you are here. pat
Posted by bozeman on March 30, 2003, at 19:18:43
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site » bozeman, posted by Dinah on March 30, 2003, at 8:14:56
Thanks, Dinah. Like you, I dread of getting in trouble and / or being a bad girl. I'm much better than I used to be, and it only gets me sometimes, but my neurosis kicked in full-force over this situation.
I hate feeling powerless. I hate being misunderstood. I hate watching other people be misunderstood. I hate watching people be maligned. And most of all, I hate waste -- the kind of waste that happens when misunderstandings take place where one person gets maligned because the other person misunderstood, and since emotions kick in, (and communication is more art than science) a simple miscommunication turns into a battle where words fly, feelings get hurt, injuries happen, people take sides, more people get their feelings hurt, more words fly, and those who don't participate are left feeling powerless (as likely do many of the participants.)
Thank you very much for your vote of confidence regarding my ability to express myself with the written word, but it's more directness than skill, actually. The biggest part of it is honesty. I'm as transparent as glass, and what I think and feel comes through in my writing in spades. That's why trying to "moderate" myself is so hard. It's not an effort for me to be "civil" 99.9% of the time because that's how I naturally am. I was raised to be polite and it's my usual response. It's the rest of the time where I really don't *feel* particularly civil that's the problem. I couldn't think of a single thing I could say that wouldn't get me PBC'd or directly blocked, and there should have been something. I struggled to find it, but I couldn't. :-( That's why I plan to ask some specific questions when I have enough distance to analyze what went wrong (on my part.)
I really appreciate your support with this particularly (for me) troubling issue.
With the deepest affection and respect
bozeman
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2003, at 20:22:07
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site » mair, posted by fayeroe on March 29, 2003, at 21:27:22
> so many of the people need to feel a part of a community that is pretty much unconditional
Well, it did start out unconditional here, but that didn't work. :-(
Bob
Posted by Dinah on April 3, 2003, at 7:30:27
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site » Dinah, posted by bozeman on March 30, 2003, at 19:18:43
Actually, I was thinking that the second paragraph of the post I'm responding to is about as good as good as anyone could have said in the circumstances.
As I said, I still have great faith in your abilities to say positive things, even if you may have an uncivil thought or two straying around your mind.
With the deepest affection and respect from me as well,
Dinah
Posted by fayeroe on April 3, 2003, at 9:46:57
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site, posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2003, at 20:22:07
> > so many of the people need to feel a part of a community that is pretty much unconditional
>
> Well, it did start out unconditional here, but that didn't work. :-(
>
> Bobwhy do you think it didn't work? and when did it quit working?
Pat
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2003, at 13:00:08
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on April 3, 2003, at 9:46:57
> why do you think it didn't work? and when did it quit working?
It's all in the archives. Go back and see for yourself? :-)
Bob
Posted by fayeroe on April 3, 2003, at 13:24:58
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site, posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2003, at 13:00:08
> > why do you think it didn't work? and when did it quit working?
>
> It's all in the archives. Go back and see for yourself? :-)
>
> Bob:-) I was actually just asking for your feelings about it.......not what happened over a period of time. My question was "why do YOU think it quit working and when? I'm interested in how you work and what part you think you might play in this not being an "unconditional" site anymore. After all you are the authority figure here and probably
have some feelings concerning the truth. :-)
pat
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 3, 2003, at 15:00:52
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site, posted by fayeroe on April 3, 2003, at 13:24:58
fayroe,
To attempt to [discover] what Dr. Bob's answer to your question,[...why do you think it quit working and when...], could be difficult, although not impossible, but very difficult for one to do, since the archives cover thousands of posts over many years. But to help simplfy your serch for your answers, I feel that the word,{unconditional} is , perhaps, a misnomer here in this discussion, for unconditional means , well, {un}-conditional, and there are conditions that an internet forum has that uses {yahoo}. One of those conditions is that "offensive" posts about another poster has conditions attached to it, in at least what yahoo told me. I did not inquier about their other conditions. Even {freedom of speech} concepts have {conditions}, for you can not yell fire in a crowded theater when there is no fire.
But I understand your concerns, and I also appreciate Dr. Bob's concerns in regard to the [conditions] that this board is confronted with, considering it is a mental-health forum.
I have been making suggestions for improvement to this site and I believe in constructive change. And I feel that you have opened a door that we could all walk through to discover the possibility of finding a way to ,possibly,create changes to the board to make it for you to feel less objectionable.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 3, 2003, at 15:24:58
In reply to controlling/moderation of this site, posted by fayeroe on March 27, 2003, at 7:11:10
fayroe,
You wrote,[...too heavy-handed...].
One of my suggestions for improvement to this site could be for there to be a [step before] any admonishment was administered to a poster. For instance, if a poster wrote,[...you are getting {anal}...], if I was the modertor of an internet mental-health board, I would write to that poster this:
YAATC. Now YAATC means, [you are asked to clarify]. Then I would write to that poster, [...could you clarify what your use of the word,{anal} in your post means?
Now the rules for {my} board would also include that [failure to respond] could constitute [contempt] and a sanction could be issued to the poster that does not respond.
Now there are those posts that need no clarification, such as, [...take your ideas and shove them, you can of spam...].
But I believe that the posters [here] have doubts at times as to what they really mean in some of their posts and a [step before]to give clarification, could alleviate, perhaps, some of your concerns here, for in your post in question, if you reeived a YAATC by the moderator, there could have been some explantaion by you to write so that there could have been a clarification so that no admonisment would have occured, or there could {not} have been a satisfactory explanation by you, but at least, you would have been given a chance to explain yourself for using the word,{anal} in your post, just to use this as an example. Could this idea of mine ,perhaps, be a way to have the hand to be {less} heavy?
Lou
Posted by fayeroe on April 3, 2003, at 17:49:03
In reply to Lou's rsponse to fayroe's post(s)-C/M » fayeroe , posted by Lou Pilder on April 3, 2003, at 15:24:58
> fayroe,
> You wrote,[...too heavy-handed...].
> One of my suggestions for improvement to this site could be for there to be a [step before] any admonishment was administered to a poster. For instance, if a poster wrote,[...you are getting {anal}...], if I was the modertor of an internet mental-health board, I would write to that poster this:
> YAATC. Now YAATC means, [you are asked to clarify]. Then I would write to that poster, [...could you clarify what your use of the word,{anal} in your post means?
> Now the rules for {my} board would also include that [failure to respond] could constitute [contempt] and a sanction could be issued to the poster that does not respond.
> Now there are those posts that need no clarification, such as, [...take your ideas and shove them, you can of spam...].
> But I believe that the posters [here] have doubts at times as to what they really mean in some of their posts and a [step before]to give clarification, could alleviate, perhaps, some of your concerns here, for in your post in question, if you reeived a YAATC by the moderator, there could have been some explantaion by you to write so that there could have been a clarification so that no admonisment would have occured, or there could {not} have been a satisfactory explanation by you, but at least, you would have been given a chance to explain yourself for using the word,{anal} in your post, just to use this as an example. Could this idea of mine ,perhaps, be a way to have the hand to be {less} heavy?
> LouLou, I have no idea what would work here. I appreciate your interest but I have decided today to no longer post here, under any circumstances.
Pat
I still read and post on the book club site and have posted about my concerns for Krissy on
Social. But I would rather just drop this and see how it plays itself out.
>
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2003, at 21:07:16
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site, posted by fayeroe on April 3, 2003, at 13:24:58
> > > why do you think it didn't work? and when did it quit working?
> >
> > It's all in the archives. Go back and see for yourself? :-)
>
> :-) I was actually just asking for your feelings about it.......not what happened over a period of time. My question was "why do YOU think it quit working and when?That's probably in there, too. :-)
> I'm interested in how you work and what part you think you might play in this not being an "unconditional" site anymore.
What part I play in this not being an unconditional site anymore? I was the one who decided not to keep it unconditional. I'm not sure if that answers your question, though...
> After all you are the authority figure here and probably
> have some feelings concerning the truth. :-)The truth about what?
Bob
Posted by fayeroe on April 3, 2003, at 21:31:28
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site, posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2003, at 21:07:16
> > > > why do you think it didn't work? and when did it quit working?
> > >
> > > It's all in the archives. Go back and see for yourself? :-)
> >
> > :-) I was actually just asking for your feelings about it.......not what happened over a period of time. My question was "why do YOU think it quit working and when?
>
> That's probably in there, too. :-)
>
> > I'm interested in how you work and what part you think you might play in this not being an "unconditional" site anymore.
>
> What part I play in this not being an unconditional site anymore? I was the one who decided not to keep it unconditional. I'm not sure if that answers your question, though...
>
> > After all you are the authority figure here and probably
> > have some feelings concerning the truth. :-)
>
> The truth about what?
BobTHE TRUTH ABOUT WHY ALOT OF PEOPLE ARE VERY UNHAPPY. AND THE TRUTH ABOUT WHY IT ISN'T UNCONDITIONAL........ YOU CAN PLAY WORD GAMES TIL THE COWS COME HOME AND QUESTIONS STILL WON'T BE ANSWERED........I WONDER WHY? THIS IS MY LAST POST.......SO DON'T WORRY ABOUT BEING PUT ON THE SPOT ANY MORE ON THIS BOARD.
PAT
>
>
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2003, at 0:02:50
In reply to Re: controlling/moderation of this site » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on April 3, 2003, at 21:31:28
> > > you are the authority figure here and probably
> > > have some feelings concerning the truth. :-)
> >
> > The truth about what?
>
> THE TRUTH ABOUT WHY ALOT OF PEOPLE ARE VERY UNHAPPY. AND THE TRUTH ABOUT WHY IT ISN'T UNCONDITIONAL........I don't know about the "truth", but (1) I'd ask *them* why they're unhappy and (2) the reason I made it conditional was to try to make it as supportive as possible for as many people as possible.
> DON'T WORRY ABOUT BEING PUT ON THE SPOT ANY MORE ON THIS BOARD.
That's OK, I'm used to it. See the archives. :-) And it's good to get feedback even if it's negative. Best wishes,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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