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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 57. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tina on March 19, 2003, at 8:35:39
in regards to Jay's post about Bush's "unilateral" action against Iraq.....
I really don't understand why you blocked him. could you explain to me what exactly about his post you found unsupportive?? Was it that he is unsupportive of the war? Well alot of us are. Are we going to be silenced by blocks too?? There was nothing unsupportive about his post and I think you were wrong in blocking him.
respectfully exercising my right to my opinion,
tina
Posted by beardedlady on March 19, 2003, at 8:44:09
In reply to Dr Bob.......shameful!!, posted by tina on March 19, 2003, at 8:35:39
Posted by Willow on March 19, 2003, at 8:47:59
In reply to Dr Bob.......shameful!!, posted by tina on March 19, 2003, at 8:35:39
Posted by stjames on March 19, 2003, at 10:56:26
In reply to Dr Bob.......shameful!!, posted by tina on March 19, 2003, at 8:35:39
Posted by Ron Hill on March 19, 2003, at 11:05:37
In reply to Dr Bob.......shameful!!, posted by tina on March 19, 2003, at 8:35:39
Dr Bob,
Clearly Jay went out of his way to incorporate your suggestion of using "I" statements. And nothing he said was offensive or rude. He merely stated his position on this issue.
Jay and I are probably not on the same page regarding the war effort, but I fully support his right to respectfully voice his opposition.
Poor block Dr. Bob (with all due respect). The referee will now mark off the 15 yarder.
-- Ron
Posted by Tabitha on March 19, 2003, at 12:06:17
In reply to Re: Dr Bob Penalized 15 Yards for Poor Block , posted by Ron Hill on March 19, 2003, at 11:05:37
I swear I posted about Jay already, but now I can't find it. Basically, ... it was similar to what Ron said. Jay was obviously making an effort to rephrase his opinions using the "I" statements, per Bob's recommendation, yet Bob blocked him anyway!
To Jay, please know that I noticed your efforts to put your opinion in acceptable words.
To Bob, ... um, maybe you could show an example of what kind of wording would be acceptable? Obviously Jay needed more clarification, and I'd like to understand too.
Posted by Gabbix2 on March 19, 2003, at 15:09:55
In reply to Re: Dr Bob Penalized 15 Yards for Poor Block , posted by Tabitha on March 19, 2003, at 12:06:17
I am also baffled. What I saw was Jay saying how the Presidents actions made him feel. This seems perfectly acceptable, especially in a forum dedicated to mental health.
The threat of war is obviously going to bring out strong emotions in anyone, never mind those of us already dealing with some type of mood disorder. Is this not the place where we discuss them?I've frequently mentioned how frustrated and angry the cutbacks in B.C. medical care have made me feel, and never once have I been told that I shouldn't in case someone in 'babble' supported the cutbacks.
I can't see a difference.
Posted by beardedlady on March 19, 2003, at 15:21:47
In reply to Re: Dr Bob Penalized 15 Yards for Poor Block , posted by Gabbix2 on March 19, 2003, at 15:09:55
is to admit you made a mistake. We all make them, and no one thinks you are the exception. And no one thinks less of people who make mistakes.
I hope you will rethink this and allow Jay to return now.
beardy
Posted by sienna on March 19, 2003, at 15:25:34
In reply to What's not shameful, though, Dr. Bob,, posted by beardedlady on March 19, 2003, at 15:21:47
because I think he was following the rules. I dont understnad it and ask please for an explanation. I have read those rules before, but now im also afraidthat somethign i say will be blocked because maybe i dont understand the rules. Can you explan dr. bob?
thanks sienna
Posted by stjames on March 19, 2003, at 15:46:22
In reply to Dr Bob.......shameful!!, posted by tina on March 19, 2003, at 8:35:39
It seems like Jay followed Dr Bob suggestion to
use I statements and still got blocked. How can we
trust Dr Bob when he makes these kind of choices ?
> Now I am afraid I am going to be blocked just for having a political opinion about a national leader. I will tone down the rhetoric, but I do have a right to post my opposition, don't I?This is about trying to keep the atmosphere supportive, not about having an opinion. Maybe try using "I-statements"?
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Bob
Posted by noa on March 19, 2003, at 17:24:47
In reply to Dr Bob.......shameful!!, posted by tina on March 19, 2003, at 8:35:39
Dr. Bob, I too, am having difficulty seeing what was blockable in the excerpts you cited.
Posted by NikkiT2 on March 19, 2003, at 17:46:06
In reply to Re: why Jay was blocked?, posted by noa on March 19, 2003, at 17:24:47
I've gone and read all the posts now.. and while I don;t like what Jay was saying in his first post (that got him the pbc) I really CANNOT see what got him banned.
Seems like *everyone* agrees with this
Nikki
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 19, 2003, at 19:06:19
In reply to Jay was blocked for following Dr Bob's rules, posted by stjames on March 19, 2003, at 15:46:22
> > > Now I am afraid I am going to be blocked just for having a political opinion about a national leader. I will tone down the rhetoric, but I do have a right to post my opposition, don't I?
> >
> > This is about trying to keep the atmosphere supportive, not about having an opinion. Maybe try using "I-statements"?
> >
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> It seems like Jay followed Dr Bob suggestion to
> use I statements and still got blocked.See the last sentence there:
> it tends to be more conducive to harmony to talk about how you feel than what someone else did, for example, to use an "I-statement" like "I feel put down by what you said" instead of a "you statement" like "you're so arrogant". But don't just try to disguise the latter as the former, as in "I feel Dr. Bob has gone overboard".
Bob
Posted by IsoM on March 19, 2003, at 20:28:57
In reply to Re: Jay was blocked for not following the rules, posted by Dr. Bob on March 19, 2003, at 19:06:19
Okay then, let's try this -
I feel VERY put down by the actions of Dr. Bob in regard to the blocking of Jay. Being a fellow Canadian, I realise my "feelings" are bound to be different than many patriotic Americans, & that I may feel put down by the actions of certain politicians. Nonetheless, I personally feel that because we now live in a global society where the actions of political leaders of some countries can affect the lives of the citizens of other countries, we all have the right to voice our pains & anxieties over the consequences whatever our political views.Perhaps Jay didn't quite fit the posting guidelines though I'm sure he tried. My post here is to express my support of Jay & other posters' feelings about this block.
Posted by J.Brown on March 19, 2003, at 21:02:18
In reply to Re: Jay was blocked for not following the rules » Dr. Bob, posted by IsoM on March 19, 2003, at 20:28:57
Take of the rosy glasses, people. The united states has become a renegade nation, led by an unelected child of privilage whose criminal career graduated from drunk driving to war crime.
Hsuing operates this site to serve his ego and to gain prestige among his professional peers. There is no similance of rationale to his enforcement of rules. Writers are free here to slander spouses, therapists and associates as long as the target of the slander is not a "member of the group". Of course, criticism of Hsuing's allies is forbidden. Statements against the interests of the soon-to-be former United States are forbidden. This is war time. Reason and truth are the first casualties.
Mental health involves honesty. Robert Hsuing is dishonest and a threat to the mental health of group members and of the world community in general. To restore mentally healthy environments during times of war often requires standing up to exploitive personalities like Hsuing and calling them what they are. Hsuing is a physician by license only. His loyalty is to his own wealth, presitige and to a religious sect that perpetrates crimes against humanity. Don't be taken in by the so-called-physician's claims to be an arbiter of civility. His facade of civility masks exploitive manipulation of whatever unsuspecting, perhaps mentally impaired subject he can lure into his sphere of influence.
In times of war, effective communication requires tenecity and a willingness to trample the rhetoric of the offending parties. To participate in this site during the war, prepare to be blocked, reregister under another name, post a comment and be blocked again. Don't surrender. Language can be more powerful than violence if used effectively.
To our neighbors in Canada, and to residents of France, Russia, Germany and the Peoples Republic who might intervene against this criminal nation, please bear with us. Not all of us will tolerate this illegal war, and we welcome your support, whatever might be neccessary to reel in the despots who have seized this land.
Posted by shar on March 19, 2003, at 21:10:31
In reply to Life under a despotic regime, posted by J.Brown on March 19, 2003, at 21:02:18
Well, I guess one difference between a despotic regime and Psycho Babble(s) is that we are here by choice. And, we can leave by choice. Plus, we can openly express our disagreement about how the 'country' of PB is run.
OK, Beardy, I know...that's three things, not one.
Shar
Posted by Tabitha on March 19, 2003, at 22:59:21
In reply to Life under a despotic regime, posted by J.Brown on March 19, 2003, at 21:02:18
> Hsuing operates this site to serve his ego and to gain prestige among his professional peers.
Somehow I think most doctors would be likely to disparage an internet medical advice forum rather than being impressed by it. I assume Doc Bob is taking a risk with his reputation by his involvement with this site. It's more of a populist thing, this patient-to-patient information sharing, and open criticism of doctors and pharmaceuticals. I also assume he must keep this all going out of a desire to help people. It serves us more than the research purpose could possibly serve him.
Posted by J.Brown on March 19, 2003, at 23:48:25
In reply to Re: Doc Bob's motives..., posted by Tabitha on March 19, 2003, at 22:59:21
... and scores of others?
As it turns out, those Husing decides to publically harm he characterizes the same way King Bush II characterizes war protesters - somewhere between naive and morally corrupt aka "uncivil."
And why do street gangs vie for the prestige within a small in-group when their actions alienate them from society at large? Same reason Hsuing and his click of "we are the Internet medicine leader" fanatics have organized themselves into a circle jerk of undirected "patient-to-patient" activity rather than providing actual care for actual patients at a reasonable (or even charitable) cost. They are alientated from most reputable caregivers, but congratulate each other for their unique enlightenment. Free to criticize? I doubt it. Free to offer milque-toast platitudes, maybe. But when someone spoke from the heart a normal human reaction to the likelihood of mass murder, Hsuing jumped in swinging on the side of the murderers.
Once upon a time, a patient sat in the waiting room a long time then they saw a doc. Now, the doc doesnt' even offer care - he tells the patients to figure it out themselves and defines the waiting room chatter as clinical care.
Hsuing is a sick puppy who wouldn't belong in front of a class of first graders, much less medical students. The harm he has caused in the lives of visitors to his site is immeasurable, but like a manic-depressive, Hsuing shrugs at the harm he has caused and moves on to his next megamaniacal plan - usually either a new babble board or a new research paper.
It is because we have allowed thousands of sick egos such as Hsuing into positions of power that the nation is now organizing its pathological behavior into malicious attacks against other nations.
Hsuing is a bully who leads by intimidation. How very typically American.
Posted by kara lynne on March 20, 2003, at 0:30:35
In reply to Re: Dr Bob Penalized 15 Yards for Poor Block , posted by Gabbix2 on March 19, 2003, at 15:09:55
I agree completely. Dr.Bob suggests Jay was 'disguising' his 'I's with 'you's'. I guess he could have further disguised his 'you's' with statements like "I feel uncared for by my president." This seems like a kind of ludicrous descent into semantics that works as long as it supports the views of the editor only. Now everyone is playing dodgeball with their words until the whole meaning of communication is lost. I know there have to be guidelines, but if Jay's post is considered uncivil behavior during these times when we're all feeling such volatile responses, I don't think there's much hope left. People blowing each other's heads off, collateral damage...that's uncivil. Isn't banning someone for saying that uncivil?
Posted by Tabitha on March 20, 2003, at 1:04:16
In reply to Then why did he HARM Jay? , posted by J.Brown on March 19, 2003, at 23:48:25
result doesn't prove intent. I'm sure it hurts to get blocked, but that doesn't mean Bob is out to hurt people. I believe him when he says his intent is to keep the board safe for the majority of posters.
Admittedly none of us knows the true Bob.
Posted by J.Brown on March 20, 2003, at 1:11:06
In reply to Re: Then why did he HARM Jay? , posted by Tabitha on March 20, 2003, at 1:04:16
Posted by beardedlady on March 20, 2003, at 7:37:15
In reply to Re: Jay was blocked for not following the rules » Dr. Bob, posted by IsoM on March 19, 2003, at 20:28:57
> Okay then, let's try this -
> I feel VERY put down by the actions of Dr. Bob in regard to the blocking of Jay.As do I.
>Being a fellow Canadian, I realise my "feelings" are bound to be different than many patriotic Americans...
To me, patriotism means taking advantage of the freedoms afforded us by the Constitution. Those freedoms include speech. I feel that by exercising that freedom, I am among the most patriotic of Americans, even--and maybe especially--if my view goes against the powers that be or the status quo.
My concern now is that Dr. Bob blocks people to keep the board safe. How many felt the least bit unsafe when Jay shared his opinion?
If this block is going to be done in the names of posters who felt unsafe, let them stand and be counted. If we are all here in support of this poster, then our safety is NOT the primary concern.
Because of this block, I feel unsafe here.
beardy : (>
Posted by NikkiT2 on March 20, 2003, at 7:43:09
In reply to patriotic Americans--all and » IsoM, posted by beardedlady on March 20, 2003, at 7:37:15
I didn't feel unsafe.. was I was pretty pissed off at some of the stuff Jay put in his post he got a pbc for... but he got pbc'd, and I do believe he took that on board, and there was no reason for the following block.
I wish he was here so I could challenge him on some of the stuff he said in first post ;)
Nikki
Posted by NikkiT2 on March 20, 2003, at 7:46:31
In reply to patriotic Americans--all and » IsoM, posted by beardedlady on March 20, 2003, at 7:37:15
Sorry - it wasn't be PBC one that I meant.. but it was this paragraph that pissed me off..
"-There is now talk that the Eurpoean Union may start to slowly force smaller countries into trading with the Euro (which is valued higher than the U.S. Dollar), which will devalue the American dollar further. The sad part is it will hurt the middle-class average American most at first, "
I just want to know from him why Europe shouldn't strengthen it self!!!
Nikki
Posted by Dinah on March 20, 2003, at 8:13:13
In reply to patriotic Americans--all and » IsoM, posted by beardedlady on March 20, 2003, at 7:37:15
I will stand as one of those.
I have no wish to be forced to defend my country or my president against excessive vitriol. Disagreement certainly. That's fine. Disagreement that sticks to the facts is great. But the intensity of hatred for Bush that has been expressed on this board, and the level of anti-Americanism is extremely unsettling to me.
I wouldn't say anything, but you asked.
And I wasn't particularly surprised at the block. Dr. Bob had referred Jay to the civility guidelines on "I" statements and Jay, I'm sure unintentionally, did exactly what Dr. Bob warned against. Granted I have spent some time trying to understand the civility guidelines and, unlike many, agree with them. So Jay was blocked for not following the rules that Dr. Bob explicitly guided him to read.
Just my opinion as someone who admittedly is distressed by extreme expressions of anger, and as someone who wishes we could all of us keep the level down, and concentrate on support of each other rather than arguing policy.
If you would rather I leave, I am prepared to do so.
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