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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Zo on July 1, 2002, at 23:33:03
How about if Bob:
Lets the board take care of itself.
Steps in only when the community ASKS.
Lets adults monitor their own language.
Lets the community work things out.
Shows even a shred of the trust he asks that we extend him.
Learns more about the nature and meaning of community. Nowhere will he find community defined as “group with controlling patriarch at its head, enforcing rules only he knows, and only when he stumbles across a “violation.”
Observes the resentment , frustration and harm to persons he creates when the word is extolled, but the meaning and essence of the communal are ignored.
Stops picking at nits, wasting the time and energy of the people here whilst remaining unaccountable for the larger issues.
Throws out his god *damned* notebook.
Appoints someone to Admin this board among whose skills is the administration of online groups.
Keeps his own needs and issues OFF the board, including this overriding need for Control, and the conflation of Ownership with Control.
Or, as another, perhaps less healthy alternative, participates as full peer. One or the god damn other.
Ceases the withholding of information. At its plainest, this is an abuse of power.
Lets go the questionable power to block people—from their friends, their community, from, often, the only support they have, and without any process of appeal.
Sounds Kafka-esque? It is.
This board is administered via fear-induced (realistic fear) conformityand fear-induced fealty. By punishment. This is inappropriate—interpersonally, ethically, and professionally.
more to come,
Zo
Posted by Zo on July 1, 2002, at 23:35:32
In reply to Open letter to Bob, v.1 - hell yes it's long, posted by Zo on July 1, 2002, at 23:33:03
Some of the things Bob would need to do, to incorporate these and similar suggestions:
Review his beliefs, methods, skills and issues with outside, objective help.
Work to erase the discrepancy between the material he publicly presents, and the reality, as described by those who participate in the site.
Become wholly mindful of the difference between the life he leads and that we must.
I am fond of Bob.I am not fond of being forced to deal with his issues as the price of being with my friends.
I am really not fond of Bob’s Famous Resistance. Or the way he feels entitled to it. The way it’s clearly okay for members to struggle with it. This is putting his problems in the path of others in a way both so obvious and so befogged, that I believe the subconscious wish for help could not be abundantly clear.
Which is fine—if this is asked, they agree, and a fee for this work is paid. I know what I bill out, to hold the therapeutic container for someone. But everyone will have to set their own rate.
I am dismayed that Bob allows members to express their “gratitude” for the $300 a month it is said he spend on maintaining the site. This is $3600 a year, folks. Maybe a big sum to you, but pocket change to a shrink, besides which he no doubt writes it off. Which means, to get more relief in your taxes than you spent in the first place.So enough with the fear-tinged gratitude, people, okay?
I think we all have more pressing things to focus on than Bob’s issues.
you bet there's more,
Zo
Posted by Katt on July 1, 2002, at 23:35:49
In reply to Open letter to Bob, v.1 - hell yes it's long, posted by Zo on July 1, 2002, at 23:33:03
Posted by Zo on July 1, 2002, at 23:36:52
In reply to Open letter to Bob, v.1 - hell yes it's long, posted by Zo on July 1, 2002, at 23:33:03
For many people--to me, when I was desperate--this site is a life-saving source of contact.
To be casual about its operation in any way seems to me highly inappropriate. Plus I would like the site to extend the genuine possiblity of mental health. Which it cannot do if its politics suck. It’s not like people can’t see the structure, here! The blocks, the randomness, the withholding, the lack of candor. Of open dialogue. What kind of haven are we? We’re a dysfunctional family where Papa rules the roost with old and embarrassing tools, that’s what. Where we chase after Bob trying to pin him down, read his mind, anything—and for some reason, he likes it that he never, ever be “caught.” Bad power politics, Bob. Bad.
Posted by Zo on July 1, 2002, at 23:44:06
In reply to Open letter to Bob, v.1 - hell yes it's long, posted by Zo on July 1, 2002, at 23:33:03
For many people--for me, when I was desperate--this site can be life-saving.
To be casual about its operation in any wa, seems to me highly inappropriate. Plus I would like the site to extend the genuine possiblity of mental health. Which it cannot do if its politics suck.
It’s not like outside people can’t see. The blocks, the randomness, the withholding, the lack of candor,. of freedom of speech. “Your freedom of speech is limited here.” Let’s talk about how, and why.
What kind of haven do we offer? We’re a dysfunctional family, where Papa rules the roost with old and embarrassing tools and platitudes. Where chasing after Papa trying to get a straight answer is just a game. . to Papa.
Bad politics, Bob. Bad PR. Bad.
more, if I have the heart. .
Zo
Posted by Zo on July 2, 2002, at 1:26:08
In reply to Open letter to Bob, v.1 - hell yes it's long, posted by Zo on July 1, 2002, at 23:33:03
I think, in the end, it’s the refusal to listen that really breaks the heart, that eats at the spirit, that undoes the precious fabric of sanity. Do those in a position of power, do they help--or do they take away. Do they use, or do they give. It’s a fragile balance, as those of us who live fragile lives can attest. Oddly, when everything else has been stripped away, your instrument becomes even more finely tuned. Even stronger. When what your life is, is made of is suffering, you almost disappear. You become almost just a place. Like a child, the place in life where kindness or injustice are unerringly reflected, every featherweight. . . Want to learn what is Right Action? Right behavior? Step right this way. If you can stand the truth, we have it, in abundance.
It remains only for the student to recognize his teachers. The teachers have been here, speaking, all along.Bye. Be well. Be *very* well.
Love, Zo
Posted by judy1 on July 2, 2002, at 2:38:21
In reply to Open letter to Bob, v.1 - hell yes it's long, posted by Zo on July 1, 2002, at 23:33:03
Hi Zo,
I'm so happy to see you back and glad you vented your anger. I read your posts carefully, and believe you made some valid points. You also mentioned the help you received here (and you certainly have helped many others). I hate to see an either/or situation as I am often accused of black and white thinking. Personally I hope you continue to post and remain part of our community. Take care, judy
Posted by Lini on July 2, 2002, at 14:35:47
In reply to part 4 - freedom of speech, it is to laugh, posted by Zo on July 1, 2002, at 23:44:06
You seem to think things through, all the way through, until they come out the other side. I appreciate alot of what you're saying, and cringe still because of my fondness for the Bobster. I think though, that you needed to say it, and others needed to hear it, and so life gets lived out there in the open naked wind.
Thanks, alot of that stuff has been on my mind, but i trip over my thoughts about this here gathering of threads. I have a love hate relationship with words.
-L
Posted by oracle on July 2, 2002, at 18:25:14
In reply to Open letter to Bob, v.1 - hell yes it's long, posted by Zo on July 1, 2002, at 23:33:03
> How about if Bob:
This is Bob's board. He paid for it, coded it, and manages it. It is not owned by committee. People are free to come and go. They are also able to set up their own board if they like.
Posted by hrtlm on July 2, 2002, at 18:34:18
In reply to Re: Open letter to Bob, v.1 - hell yes it's long, posted by oracle on July 2, 2002, at 18:25:14
couldnt have said it better myselfstop the whining!!!
> This is Bob's board. He paid for it, coded it, and manages it. It is not owned by committee. People are free to come and go. They are also able to set up their own board if they like.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 2, 2002, at 21:35:40
In reply to part 4 - freedom of speech, it is to laugh, posted by Zo on July 1, 2002, at 23:44:06
Zo,
I beleive that fredom of speech is extreamly important for us to have Life, Liberty, and the persuit of happiness. Please click on Patric Henry's speech on the link below so that we have a common refference in our discussion. I do not, however, endose evrything that Patric Henry spoke.
http://libertyonline.hypermall.com/henry-liberty.html
Lou
Posted by oracle on July 2, 2002, at 22:47:59
In reply to Amen, oracle!!! » oracle, posted by hrtlm on July 2, 2002, at 18:34:18
> stop the whining!!!
Thanks, but I do not like calling anothers point of view
"whining". This is a charged issue so I think
it best to respect others views.
Posted by hrtlm on July 2, 2002, at 23:07:51
In reply to Re: Amen, oracle!!!, posted by oracle on July 2, 2002, at 22:47:59
> Thanks, but I do not like calling anothers point of view
> "whining". This is a charged issue so I think
> it best to respect others views.couldnt agree more - thanks for respecting my view (which is that its whining!) lol
no more whining!!! (worth repeating)
Posted by Zo on July 3, 2002, at 7:11:38
In reply to Amen again!, posted by hrtlm on July 2, 2002, at 23:07:51
Posted by krazy kat on July 3, 2002, at 10:01:17
In reply to Amen again!, posted by hrtlm on July 2, 2002, at 23:07:51
You can make "no showing of emotions" and "no questioning my actions" part of it. See how many people join something like that... I would not think many. (mho)
Posted by oracle on July 3, 2002, at 10:18:20
In reply to Maybe you two can unbunch each others shorts? (nm) » hrtlm, posted by Zo on July 3, 2002, at 7:11:38
Zo, you are showing your true colors. That did not take yoo long.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 3, 2002, at 12:51:33
In reply to Re: Maybe you two can unbunch each others shorts?, posted by oracle on July 3, 2002, at 10:18:20
Hey, everyone,
Let's be civil here, OK? Thanks,
Bob
Posted by oracle on July 3, 2002, at 14:26:23
In reply to Re: Maybe you two can unbunch each others shorts?, posted by oracle on July 3, 2002, at 10:18:20
"Lets adults monitor their own language"
Oh well.
Posted by Zo on July 3, 2002, at 15:49:24
In reply to Re: Open letter to Bob, v.1 - hell yes it's long, posted by oracle on July 2, 2002, at 18:25:14
". . .and the conflation of Ownership with Control. "See above.
Zo
Posted by oracle on July 3, 2002, at 16:03:50
In reply to Re: My way or the highway » oracle, posted by Zo on July 3, 2002, at 15:49:24
It seems to me that by your "shorts" comment you have proved that some people cannot police themselves, and therefor Dr. Bob does need to step
in.
Posted by hrtlm on July 3, 2002, at 18:17:04
In reply to Maybe you two can unbunch each others shorts? (nm) » hrtlm, posted by Zo on July 3, 2002, at 7:11:38
That was very funny! I can't stop laughing now.
Posted by Zo on July 4, 2002, at 2:30:32
In reply to Re: part 4 - freedom of speech, it is to laugh » Zo, posted by Lini on July 2, 2002, at 14:35:47
>. . . and others needed to hear it, and so life gets lived out there in the open naked wind.amazing. true beauty.
zo
Posted by Lini on July 4, 2002, at 23:45:03
In reply to Re: Next you're going to be saying you can't write » Lini, posted by Zo on July 4, 2002, at 2:30:32
This is the end of the thread.
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