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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 29. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mr Beev on June 22, 2002, at 19:52:34
Greetings Dr Bob,
I posted three messages earlier today, all to the same thread on Psycho-Babble, "Alive at Night, Dead in the Morning". All three came through fine - I've never had trouble posting before.
But the third posting, addressed to a jonl as I recall, has since rather mysteriously disappeared. I further note that all jonl postings have disappeared.
Please advise, thank you for your time,
Mr Beev
Posted by JonW on June 22, 2002, at 20:02:56
In reply to Disappearing Postings, posted by Mr Beev on June 22, 2002, at 19:52:34
I think it was JakeL and I noticed that on another thread as well.
Jon
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 22, 2002, at 20:32:35
In reply to Disappearing Postings, posted by Mr Beev on June 22, 2002, at 19:52:34
> But the third posting, addressed to a jonl as I recall, has since rather mysteriously disappeared. I further note that all jonl postings have disappeared.
He's blocked, so he shouldn't've been posting. Sorry about your post, but I didn't think it made sense to leave it without the post you were responding to.
Bob
Posted by Mr Beev on June 22, 2002, at 20:59:52
In reply to Re: Disappearing Postings, posted by Dr. Bob on June 22, 2002, at 20:32:35
> > But the third posting, addressed to a jonl as I recall, has since rather mysteriously disappeared. I further note that all jonl postings have disappeared.
>
> He's blocked, so he shouldn't've been posting. Sorry about your post, but I didn't think it made sense to leave it without the post you were responding to.
>
> BobThat is certainly a reasonable course of action, but I think it a bit rude to simply yank a neutral party's posting, cloak-and-dagger-like, without any sort of acknowledgement. I would have appreciated knowing what happened to my posting, which I put a fair bit of effort into - and do not possess a backup copy of.
Mr Beev
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 23, 2002, at 0:19:10
In reply to Re: Disappearing Postings » Dr. Bob, posted by Mr Beev on June 22, 2002, at 20:59:52
> That is certainly a reasonable course of action, but I think it a bit rude to simply yank a neutral party's posting, cloak-and-dagger-like, without any sort of acknowledgement. I would have appreciated knowing what happened to my posting, which I put a fair bit of effort into - and do not possess a backup copy of.
Sorry, I try not to call attention to this sort of thing. Appended is your post. Ask and you may receive. :-)
Bob
----
[Posted by Mr Beev on June 22, 2002, at 18:34:46]
I found ambien addictive. And I had terrible rebound insomnia. My personal experience agrees with your statement about benzos, however.
If you search this board or another, such as sleepnet.com, you shall find quite a bit of anecdotal evidence contrary to your statements.
I also suggest you examine the following pamphlet. I give the PDF rather than the HTML link because the PDF file contains all Doctor Kripke's references. If you do not wish to read the whole thing (29 pages), search on "zolpidem" to find all the relevant references.
http://www.darksideofsleepingpills.com/pdf/darkside.pdf
I further suggest, if I may, that you consider refraining from universal generalizations, however tempting, as they might mislead others, especially if they are incorrect. Please see Dr Bob's excellent FAQ for more information. It ought to be clear from perusing these boards that for every chap who exclaims "X is true" there is another declaiming "X is false". And both are correct. Each of us must read and sift, weigh and consider, and we sometimes are not in the best mental state to do this effectively. Therefore we should endeavor to follow Dr Bob's guidelines as a consideration to those kind enough to read our posts. The mind is a peculiar thing, no two the same.
Regards, Mr Beev
Posted by JonW on June 23, 2002, at 6:38:08
In reply to Re: Disappearing Postings, posted by Dr. Bob on June 22, 2002, at 20:32:35
> He's blocked, so he shouldn't've been posting. Sorry about your post, but I didn't think it made sense to leave it without the post you were responding to.
If you are blocked shouldn't you be *unable* to post... or did he register under a new name or something. Anyway, it's annoying since he was defending me after I was accused of "irresponsible" posting. He posted a message with the title "Re: Resposible posting". Here's the message I originally posted:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020617/msgs/110218.html
I understand what Missliz is saying but is my message really irresponsible? What do you think? If my message is irresonsible, psycho-babble is irresponsible. Why am I being targeting? I think this is unfair, and it was nice to have people support me and you deleted one of those posts. Maybe missliz's post about irresponsible posting shouldn't have been on psycho-babble and then my reply to her accusations shouldn't be there either, but it's hard not to reply when she attacked my post which I believe most would consider rather innocuous.
Maybe I am oversensitive -- I'm a "loony" you know :) But I think she's being oversensitive too.. what a great combination, eh? I'm just really bothered by the fact that *my* post which is simply informative like the rest was targeted.
Jon
Posted by Mr Beev on June 23, 2002, at 8:21:23
In reply to Re: Disappearing Postings, posted by Dr. Bob on June 23, 2002, at 0:19:10
Dr Bob,
Thank you for the explanations, etc. If this should happen in the future, I shan't complain - I simply wondered what had happened. I was reluctant to complain, I realize the job of moderator can be a thankless one: time consuming, difficult to please all the people all the time, and of course the inevitable rogues' gallery of immature scofflaws and mischief mongers.
Regards,
Mr Beev
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 23, 2002, at 10:02:52
In reply to Responsible Posting » Dr. Bob, posted by JonW on June 23, 2002, at 6:38:08
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020617/msgs/110218.html
>
> I understand what Missliz is saying but is my message really irresponsible? What do you think?I think you're doing an OK job of defending what you did. Just remember to be civil and that you can't make everybody happy all the time. :-)
> Maybe I am oversensitive -- I'm a "loony" you know :) But I think she's being oversensitive too.. what a great combination, eh? I'm just really bothered by the fact that *my* post which is simply informative like the rest was targeted.
Who said life was fair? :-)
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 23, 2002, at 10:04:40
In reply to Re: Disappearing Postings - Thanks » Dr. Bob, posted by Mr Beev on June 23, 2002, at 8:21:23
> I realize the job of moderator can be a thankless one: time consuming, difficult to please all the people all the time, and of course the inevitable rogues' gallery of immature scofflaws and mischief mongers.
How about we just leave it at time consuming and difficult? :-)
Bob
Posted by krazy kat on June 23, 2002, at 10:11:24
In reply to Re: Responsible Posting » JonW, posted by Dr. Bob on June 23, 2002, at 10:02:52
She was being "academically uncivil", imho, whatever that is. :) "scuse me?" in one of her posts really bothered me.
as i started in that thread, there is no way to know if what she is posting about herself is true, and she's obviously instigating.
don't let it get to you jon. :)
- kk
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 23, 2002, at 10:58:58
In reply to Re: Responsible Posting » JonW, posted by krazy kat on June 23, 2002, at 10:11:24
> she's obviously instigating.
Sorry to bring up another "rule", but please don't jump to conclusions about others, thanks.
Bob
Posted by JonW on June 23, 2002, at 11:01:19
In reply to Re: Responsible Posting » JonW, posted by krazy kat on June 23, 2002, at 10:11:24
Posted by JonW on June 23, 2002, at 11:23:45
In reply to Re: Responsible Posting » JonW, posted by Dr. Bob on June 23, 2002, at 10:02:52
> Who said life was fair? :-)
>
> BobAnyone who ever won the lottery? :)
Posted by krazy kat on June 23, 2002, at 21:29:40
In reply to Re: please be civil » krazy kat , posted by Dr. Bob on June 23, 2002, at 10:58:58
i was going to pick a phrase from a post of that poster but it's too complex:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020617/msgs/110525.html
there are many indications that she/he is being instigating AND I thought that admin was the place for comments such as mine. i was careful not to post it on babble.
"scuse me" isn't instigating?
Dr. B, am I in the same category as Zo? Perhaps I can be the new Zo, since she must have better things to do with her time right now. I am proud and honored to take her place if so... ;)
I really am trying not to be uncivil...
- kk
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 24, 2002, at 19:33:58
In reply to Re: please be civil » what???? » Dr. Bob, posted by krazy kat on June 23, 2002, at 21:29:40
> i was going to pick a phrase from a post of that poster but it's too complex:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020617/msgs/110525.htmlIt's the complex ones that are tricky...
> "scuse me" isn't instigating?
I'd say she was kind of brusque, but she wasn't making assumptions about anyone's motives. Which I have to admit I've been guilty of myself in the past, I'm not perfect, either...
> I thought that admin was the place for comments such as mine. i was careful not to post it on babble.
> I really am trying not to be uncivil...
Thanks for trying, it would've been a fine post here or there without that one comment!
Bob
Posted by krazy kat on June 25, 2002, at 10:32:15
In reply to Re: making assumptions, posted by Dr. Bob on June 24, 2002, at 19:33:58
I think I do quite well not making assumptions.
If I always start a sentence or phrase with:
"It appears to me" or "It seems"
and end any advice or argument I give with:
"in my humble opinion"
I'll be O.K., eh? No assumptions can be made by others then, that my goal was to harm them in anyway.
Trust me, I understand what the goal is - to create a cushy, padded cell block environment so no one gets hurt. I imagine this helps in legal terms and perhaps (there's another good word to use because it's indicating I don't know FOR SURE) it has something to do with the research part of this site.
Heh, it's obviously got a draw still - I'm back, though on more of a lurker level. But it's getting pretty sanitary here, and I say that without feel-good explanatory words.
Have you considered, Dr. B., that this could actually Keep people from helping each other? Just a thought. Sometimes when one is in the throw of a depression or a manic episode or an anxiety-ridden fixation, editing and toning down a post is impossible.
I'd hate to have had it this milk-toast when I started posting here - I don't think I would have stayed, because people like Sar would have been blocked, in my humble opinion.
So how about a list of words that would help people be more civil when they post would be helpful. This can go along with the list of bad words that cannot be used on the site. And, anything else...
- kk
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 25, 2002, at 12:16:02
In reply to Re: making assumptions » Dr. Bob, posted by krazy kat on June 25, 2002, at 10:32:15
Friends,
It appears that this topic keeps surfacing.And I understand what Krazy Kat is feeling about this for I once had a battle in the school that I taught at about the use of sware words. I was given the task to "well-define" these words and their uses in the school and the punishments.
The way that we handled it was that a rule was made that prohibited sware words.I agree with Dr. Bob that the words should not be used at all, but if they are used, then a penalty should be applied, and applied equally. The definition was easy, for the list just said "words that degrade a persons worth by equating them with defication, or other currupt acts, or sexual acts or any other degrading language. So non-sware words also fell into these catagories.
Now the rule was broken many ways. Each way had it's own penalty.
#1 Profanity directed towards a teacher: 3 day suspension (second time was a reccomendation for expulsion)
#2 Profanity with no object, or yourself as the object, such as swaring when a bee stung you, student getting a bad grade back on a test, etc. :One demerit (3 demerits was an in-school-suspension for 3 days) The equivalent on this board is to say," I felt s***** when I took XYZ"
#3 Profanity in a composition: Student had to write a paper justifying the use of the word as "literary" or "artisitic" or recieve a demerit. This came up with Stienbeck's "Of Mice and Men", for these words are used in a book that the English Dept. had as requirered reading! The English Dept. put out a letter to the parents that explained the literary justification for Stienbeck's useage of the words.
#4 Cursing another student: 3 days in-school-suspension .(second offense, rec. for expulsion)
#5 other good and just causes to restrict the suspect word:
This was handled by the administration and the offending word was matched up to the closest of the first 4 offenses and the appropriate punishment was applied. There was no appeal.
Now the point that we were making to the students was that sware words degraded other people and that we were not going to tolerate them. But we also recognised that these words were in a continuem from just yelling out the S word when you struck your thumb with a hammer in wood shop to profaning another person. We wanted the punishment to "fit the crime."
Now my suggestion here is in sympathy with Krazy Kat in that there, perhaps,could be different catagories, by definition from the administration, for these words and that the continuim , perhaps could go from a PBC warning to a suspension. I also believe that the circumstances surrounding the use of the word makes the same word punishable by different degrees.I would set up the folowing if I was the administrator of this board.
I would have the 4 catagories that we used in the school that I taught in.
Insted of demarits,or PBCs I would have a fine of $0.25 (US) for using the S word and the F word and the other common words, unless it is directed to a person.
Profanity directed to a person would be the usual blocking established here already.
Now the use here of these words as "literary", or "artistic" is a judgment that must be made. In our school, the English dept. reviewed these offending words and they were the sole judge.
So I am suggesting that we select posters here to be the sole judge of those type of situations. Perhaps Beadedlady or ISO or Kid_A ,and other people that have demonstrated a "profitiancy" in the field or have a literary background. In other words, I an suggesting that we take this off the sholders of Dr. Bob and police it ourselves with Dr. Bob having a veto, though, so as to prevent favoritism.
Now the $0.25 would accumulate to $1.00 (US) and then the poster could not return untill it is paid. The accumulated funds could be put to some use that benifited the entire board.
Now of course, there would still be disputes, and those disputes would be decieded by Dr. Bob with no appeal.
In review of what we accomplished in the school, I can say that the policy was effective. There were numerous suspensions at first, but then the students saw the merit of our stance to not allow sware words and the suspensions went down to deminimus.
Lou
Posted by shar on June 26, 2002, at 0:14:33
In reply to Lou's experiance with sware words » krazy kat , posted by Lou Pilder on June 25, 2002, at 12:16:02
Lou's post affirms my idea that restrictions we have are like being in school. You might be able to implement some of the punishments (or, consequences) Lou cites, particularly writing an essay on the use of an offending word (a justification or something similar). Plus, I like the idea of demerits; they could be one level less severe than a PBC.
PsychoProfanityBabble?
PsychoDemeritBabble?Someone suggested listing all the words, which I thought was great. Only, what if someone got offended when they read it? (just kidding here, really. I did get a kick out of the idea tho.)
Shar
Posted by Phil on June 26, 2002, at 6:54:56
In reply to Dr. B--see what I mean about high school?, posted by shar on June 26, 2002, at 0:14:33
Shall I go over Carlin's seven words you can't say on TV?
Posted by lou pilder on June 26, 2002, at 7:28:08
In reply to Dr. B--see what I mean about high school?, posted by shar on June 26, 2002, at 0:14:33
Shar,
Thank you for your contribution to this thread. I am glad that you like some of my ideas to be implimented on this board.
I believe that Dr. Bob , being the sole administrator, has too much to contend with when he has to monitor language. That is why I had the English dept. take over the responsiblity of the sware words in the school. And this community is like a school in many ways. It is for support AND education.
I am serious about haveing posters take over the responsibility of policing the language. We have ISO, Beardedlady, Kid_A and others that could easily take over the policing of the language and relieve Dr. Bob of this tedious task. Would the Principal of the school check the bathrooms all day in the school?
All I am saying, is give Dr. Bob a chance to use the board for support and education. The time that he is spending on policing the language takes away from the education aspect of this board.
Lou
Posted by krazy kat on June 26, 2002, at 11:18:22
In reply to Dr. B--see what I mean about high school?, posted by shar on June 26, 2002, at 0:14:33
i thought of that after i posted it... there is no answer without presenting the word, or the idea of the word that i can see. a phoenetic list?
Posted by jane d on June 26, 2002, at 13:14:20
In reply to offensive list... » shar, posted by krazy kat on June 26, 2002, at 11:18:22
> i thought of that after i posted it... there is no answer without presenting the word, or the idea of the word that i can see. a phoenetic list?
Graphics?
Posted by krazy kat on June 26, 2002, at 14:04:03
In reply to Re: offensive list... » shar » krazy kat , posted by jane d on June 26, 2002, at 13:14:20
but that's so perverse. :) remember the bugs bunny cartoon, or speedy maybe, where they showed an "ass" as in what Mary and Joseph road on to depict a character? oh, so funny...
Posted by shar on June 27, 2002, at 3:12:27
In reply to i thought of that, too... » jane d, posted by krazy kat on June 26, 2002, at 14:04:03
Posted by Rach on July 1, 2002, at 22:56:36
In reply to Re: Dr. B--see what I mean about high school? » shar, posted by Phil on June 26, 2002, at 6:54:56
> Shall I go over Carlin's seven words you can't say on TV?
Read all about it.
Warning: language!
http://staff.dstc.edu.au/bill/carlin.html
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