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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 14 to 38 of 38. Go back in thread:
Posted by Zo on June 7, 2002, at 0:36:46
In reply to Re: overdose and confusion, posted by Dr. Bob on June 6, 2002, at 1:07:21
> I wanted to know EVERYONE. Now it is about a month later and the board makes me feel much less close and very fragmented.
>
> Sorry. Maybe with time you'll get more used to the new arrangement? Especially if you feel better in general?
>Dear Bob,
It looks like valued old-timers are are saying, Bob, "I feel *worse* with all these new boards.The site is both harder to use and less the close community it was - and this is a big, important loss to me."
And it looks like you are saying, "Sorry, but this not going to change, so *you* need to adjust."
Am I anywhere near correct?
My thought is that it would be much more supportive, in the long run, to really be clear about the changes you make.
Speaking for myself, I'm not comfortable with things that are implied, and I have to find out---especially when there's not going to *be* any dialogue.
It may be okay or not okay with people , if you make unilateral decisions about Babble. But don't you think it might work better, spare lots of feelings, if this were openly stated?
It's nice to have threads with you, but it seems pretty pointless for members to post questions just to find out what is your current thinking. Seems more efficient to be clear? And perhaps smooths feelings?
Expectations (that feedback on a given issue matters) without information (the issue has already been decided) tends to lead to disappointment and bad feeling, don't you think?
And maybe people even feel a bit disrespected, like if it's a big loss, to them. . .."Sorry."
Maybe it's hard for you, as an able person, to imagine how important even small changes are, here, to us?
Maybe we don't have much other place to feel at home with friends, in our life . . .But somebody else owns this house. . Invited us here. . . but the house rules are all to make it easier for him?. . .. .. You can see where this might be difficult. . to people already in plenty of pain.
Zo
Posted by mair on June 7, 2002, at 8:09:10
In reply to Re: overdose and confusion » Dr. Bob, posted by Zo on June 7, 2002, at 0:36:46
Posted by mair on June 7, 2002, at 8:17:19
In reply to Re: overdose and confusion » Dr. Bob, posted by shelliR on June 7, 2002, at 0:05:17
I think it's obvious that people here are genuinely concerned about what you've been going through. Please post about what you think you can. Of course you can e-mail me too if you want.
Mair
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 7, 2002, at 16:53:13
In reply to Re: overdose and confusion » Dr. Bob, posted by Zo on June 7, 2002, at 0:36:46
> It's the med board name that... says nothing about meds!
>
> beardy : )>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020510/msgs/5510.htmlTrue, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of confusion there, so I'm reluctant to rock that boat...
----
> > Maybe with time you'll get more used to the new arrangement?
>
> Maybe you should expain why we should get used to it, when most of us would vote to stay with the originial PB and PSB, with perhaps the reunion board for 2000.When people vote to keep something the way it is, I take that as a sign that they like it that way, which is of course nice. But I still think sometimes change is for the better. If you could please try to accept what I decide and to trust that I'm doing my best to be fair and to do what I think will be good for this community as a whole, I'd really appreciate it.
> So you never did answer the question of why in such a short time you piled on so many new groups.
Wasn't there at least some discussion each time? Also, I think Phil and Susan C made some good points:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020510/msgs/5502.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020510/msgs/5522.html> Does this have to do with your research? Are you adding these boards to clarify your studies?
This isn't the first time that someone's wondered if "research" is why I'm doing something. As if you're rats I'm giving electric shocks or something. The goal of this research is understanding better "how online communities work and affect the mental health of their members". Giving you electric shocks does *not* further that goal.
> When I grew up my parents made me eat asparagus and I used to gag. Well, I still gagged the last time I tried asparagus. Even the thought of it makes me gag.
>
> ShelliI don't mean to be unsympathetic, but these boards can't be all things to all people. I meant it before when I said:
> > it may now be more like a city than a small town... And city life isn't for everyone.
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020510/msgs/5520.html----
> Expectations (that feedback on a given issue matters) without information (the issue has already been decided) tends to lead to disappointment and bad feeling, don't you think?
Sure, but feedback can matter even if I don't make the decision you want and can matter even after that, since I might change my mind...
> Maybe we don't have much other place to feel at home with friends, in our life . . .But somebody else owns this house. . Invited us here. . . but the house rules are all to make it easier for him?
>
> ZoThe house rules are all to make it easier for me?
----
> My big beef is with the bifurcation of PSB and PPB. Let's say you meet someone on the street and stop to chat and you talk very socially for awhile and then you ask your friend how things are going and your friend launches into a big explanation about her depression. I've never thought that PSB was "just social" although there are some threads that are just that. But how do you separate out a discussion about how genuinely lousy you feel without talking as well about therapy issues - maybe not discreet issues about a therapist or about the efficacy of specific types of therapys, but certainly what you're trying to work on and address in therapy? There's alot of overlap, and if you look at PSB there are several threads that hardly fit into the category of social chitchat.
I agree, there's a lot of overlap. Maybe post to PSB if you're more interested in support and PPB if you're more interested in information? But like I said before:
> > The important thing is getting help and support, not what board (or where in person) you get them from.
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020510/msgs/5505.html> Maybe you should get rid of a few extra boards (at least temporarily) and institute a rule that no post will be redirected if it at least partially involves the subject matter of that board.
>
> Mair
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020510/msgs/5532.htmlHave I redirected a post that didn't at least partially involve the subject matter of that board?
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 8, 2002, at 11:57:36
In reply to Re: confusion, posted by Dr. Bob on June 7, 2002, at 16:53:13
> > My big beef is with the bifurcation of PSB and PPB.
>
> I agree, there's a lot of overlap. Maybe post to PSB if you're more interested in support and PPB if you're more interested in information?I tried to clarify this a little more, PSB is now "for general support and just being social", and PPB is "about psychology and psychological treatments". Better?
Bob
Posted by mair on June 8, 2002, at 20:41:15
In reply to Re: confusion, posted by Dr. Bob on June 8, 2002, at 11:57:36
Posted by shelliR on June 8, 2002, at 20:49:11
In reply to Re: confusion, posted by Dr. Bob on June 7, 2002, at 16:53:13
> > > Maybe with time you'll get more used to the new arrangement?
That's always possible. In any case, it's important for me to not retain any resentment or anger about it. I'll either stay or leave or stay then leave or leave then come back. Whatever. Drug/medication information has always been my main draw and that remains.
I was a bit teased over to the support side after
Sar's death--by feeling very connected and for me that proved to not such a good idea-- based on the resulting changes. Oh well, life moves on.And I have reminded myself that this is your board. So I'll back off. But about the following statement of yours:
"If you could please try to accept what I decide and to trust that I'm doing my best to be fair and to do what I think will be good for this community as a whole, I'd really appreciate it."
Okay I find this statement absolutely insulting.
Recently I think you have made some very bad judgments (which to me don't have to do with fairness) and I am trying to (1) tell you know why I believe they are bad decisions, and (2) try to understand why you are making (imo) bad choices, especially in such a short time. One second we are debating having an oldtimers board; the next week we have that board as well as three others. The speed itself felt shocking and not in our best interest. It is not about about things getting bigger for me (a city), it is for me about all the overlap.
If I don't like the decisions that you are making, I have several choices: live with them, leave, speak up about them, or all of the above. If you don't want feedback, then make a rule that feedback is not civil. Or substract the administrative board. To tell us that you are doing what you feel is best for the community is fine; to tell us that we should accept the changes that you decide is truely patronizing.
Shelli
Posted by NikkiT2 on June 9, 2002, at 13:27:27
In reply to Re: confusion » Dr. Bob, posted by shelliR on June 8, 2002, at 20:49:11
The talk for having an old timers board has been going on for at least 6 months to my memory.. it just died down for a while before coming up again.
I think its harsh to attack Dr Bob like this, would our lifes be better with no PB?? No, I know mine wouldn't.. this place has been very important to me.
thing is, if I was being attacked about MY web site all the time, I'd end up rather pissed off and close the board down.
At least he does listen to us.
Nikki
Posted by ShelliR on June 9, 2002, at 19:41:16
In reply to Re: confusion » shelliR, posted by NikkiT2 on June 9, 2002, at 13:27:27
Hi Nikki,
I'm really ready to let this go, but I did think that I had to clarify something first. The discussion on the old timers board did last a long time. Actually, there wasn't much of a discussion since it is obvious that Dr. Bob had already made up his mind. But if you look through the past threads, I didn't have much of a problem with having that new board, just preferred that it be called a reunion board.
On the other hand, once that had been finally established, three or four other boards were immediately established. And that is what upset me--not the first board.
I have generally thought PB to be a fair board, not perfect but generally fair. I think there is a reason that very smart people are attracted to PB. I have also been very connected and to withdrawal would be major for me.
My life has been made better having PB also, but with all the new boards, redirects, and bans, I'm not sure anymore. And I felt angry that I perceived Dr. Bob as telling us that we should accept without comment many sudden changes. So many people feel unhappy now. Perhaps this will pass, but I think we have a pretty rational group of people and I wouldn't automatically dismiss all the concerns that are being expressed.
I hope I have made my position a bit clearer; if not we will just have to disagree.
Peace,
Shelli
Posted by NikkiT2 on June 10, 2002, at 6:18:29
In reply to Re: confusion » NikkiT2, posted by ShelliR on June 9, 2002, at 19:41:16
What about those of us (anmd there are alot!) that are veyr happy with the changes??
I for one think the new boards are a great addition.. or don't our opinions matter as much as those that don't like them??
nikki
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 10, 2002, at 10:52:59
In reply to Re: confusion » Dr. Bob, posted by shelliR on June 8, 2002, at 20:49:11
> "If you could please try to accept what I decide and to trust that I'm doing my best to be fair and to do what I think will be good for this community as a whole, I'd really appreciate it."
>
> Okay I find this statement absolutely insulting.
>
> Recently I think you have made some very bad judgments (which to me don't have to do with fairness) and I am trying to (1) tell you know why I believe they are bad decisions, and (2) try to understand why you are making (imo) bad choices, especially in such a short time. One second we are debating having an oldtimers board; the next week we have that board as well as three others. The speed itself felt shocking and not in our best interest. It is not about about things getting bigger for me (a city), it is for me about all the overlap.
>
> If I don't like the decisions that you are making, I have several choices: live with them, leave, speak up about them, or all of the above. If you don't want feedback, then make a rule that feedback is not civil. Or substract the administrative board. To tell us that you are doing what you feel is best for the community is fine; to tell us that we should accept the changes that you decide is truely patronizing.I do try to explain my decisions and appreciate feedback (and try to keep that feedback in mind when making decisions).
You're right, how fast to make changes is a separate question. Spreading them out might be less disruptive, but I think there's also something to be said for acting when an issue comes up.
Overlap is important and the reason I haven't gone ahead with other suggested boards. It would not only make it more confusing for posters, but mean more redirecting for me.
I didn't say you "should" accept any changes, I just said I'd appreciate it if you did...
Bob
Posted by shar on June 10, 2002, at 12:07:50
In reply to Re: confusion » ShelliR, posted by NikkiT2 on June 10, 2002, at 6:18:29
> What about those of us (anmd there are alot!) that are veyr happy with the changes??
>
> I for one think the new boards are a great addition.. or don't our opinions matter as much as those that don't like them??
>
> nikkiI am just fine with the additional boards, and I also get sometimes confused with where I want to be or post. That even happened when we had three boards (PB, PSB, PBA). So, I developed a pattern of which ones I went to first, second, etc.
I still only frequent about 3 boards on a regular basis, and spot check others from time to time. Most of the boards don't hold much interest for me, but I'm happy for other people to have them.
Oh, yeah. And, if they don't get used, they'll eventually be taken down. That has happened before also. Eliminating a board will help alleviate confusion.
S
Posted by Phil on June 10, 2002, at 12:13:00
In reply to Re: confusion------ditto what Nikki said, posted by shar on June 10, 2002, at 12:07:50
Posted by ShelliR on June 10, 2002, at 12:41:02
In reply to Re: confusion, posted by Dr. Bob on June 10, 2002, at 10:52:59
> I didn't say you "should" accept any changes, I just said I'd appreciate it if you did...
>
> Bob
Okay, Dr. Bob. Very true.
And for all you happy people (Nikki, Phil, Shar, etc.)
I am ready to let go of all my annoyance and move foward. I am bored with this whole topic and especially bored with me. (a feeling I would venture to guess you guys share.)My perennials are all starting to bloom and are quite beautiful. If you lived closer I would deliver a bouquet to each of you.
Shelli
Posted by mair on June 10, 2002, at 13:31:30
In reply to Re: confusion » Dr. Bob, posted by ShelliR on June 10, 2002, at 12:41:02
"I am bored with this whole topic and especially bored with me. (a feeling I would venture to guess you guys share.)"
Not even close.Mair
Posted by Phil on June 10, 2002, at 16:53:10
In reply to Re: confusion, posted by mair on June 10, 2002, at 13:31:30
The last time I smoked perennials I got deathly ill, but thanks.
Posted by Krazy Kat on June 10, 2002, at 19:50:31
In reply to Re: confusion » Dr. Bob, posted by ShelliR on June 10, 2002, at 12:41:02
Shelli:
I'm pretty much avoiding all discussions but jsut want to say that I didn't see any reason for the defensive reaction(s) to your concerns.
Some of us will be happy with the changes, some not. Your points still seem valid to me, and I didn't see you invalidate anyone elses.
Do go spend time with the flowers. I am trying to spend time with my family and animals. And I would love a bouquet. I won't smoke it, ;), but I will smell it and then I will Sneeze. Achoo!
- kk
Posted by shar on June 10, 2002, at 23:08:13
In reply to Re: confusion - ditto... » ShelliR, posted by Krazy Kat on June 10, 2002, at 19:50:31
It is so interesting how I can get instantaneously drawn into a struggle when I think I'm being called names, or characterized unflatteringly.
Woowee!
I just have to remember, to each his own, and to each, her own.
Shar
Posted by ShelliR on June 10, 2002, at 23:21:57
In reply to :) ....defensive reaction(s) to your concerns...?, posted by shar on June 10, 2002, at 23:08:13
Well to be honest, Shar, I didn't know what in Nikki's post you and Phil were agreeing about. But it seemed a lot nicer for me to think about flowers and forget about boards. If you were agreeing that you liked the new boards the way they were, that felt very reasonable. I think the point that KK was making was whether you and Phil were agreeing with Nikki's comment that your opinions counted less than those of us against the board. I've never said that or thought that.
And by the way, I think you're pretty cool. (If that matters.)
KK, Sorry flowers make you sneeze. I'll bring you a bunch and you can dry them in your photo album--like after the prom.
Shelli
Posted by Phil on June 11, 2002, at 6:32:15
In reply to Re: :) ....defensive reaction(s) to your concerns...? » shar, posted by ShelliR on June 10, 2002, at 23:21:57
I was just agreeing that the new boards were okay by me.
Flowers....cool.
Posted by wendy b. on June 11, 2002, at 15:08:48
In reply to Re: confusion, posted by Dr. Bob on June 8, 2002, at 11:57:36
> > > My big beef is with the bifurcation of PSB and PPB.
> >
> > I agree, there's a lot of overlap. Maybe post to PSB if you're more interested in support and PPB if you're more interested in information?
>
> I tried to clarify this a little more, PSB is now "for general support and just being social", and PPB is "about psychology and psychological treatments". Better?
>
> Bob
OK, Bob, I just did the thing we're talking about here, posted a new thread to PPB rather than PSB, which I thought I was on. Arrrgggghhhhhh! It's embarassing.Wendy
Posted by shar on June 12, 2002, at 1:45:30
In reply to Re: :) ....defensive reaction(s) to your concerns...? » shar, posted by ShelliR on June 10, 2002, at 23:21:57
Just agreeing that I liked the new boards the way they were.
You are very gracious to think of flowers; I enjoy the beauty of nature great big gobs. And I assure you I won't try to smoke them like some people around here...!
Shar
> Well to be honest, Shar, I didn't know what in Nikki's post you and Phil were agreeing about. But it seemed a lot nicer for me to think about flowers and forget about boards. If you were agreeing that you liked the new boards the way they were, that felt very reasonable. I think the point that KK was making was whether you and Phil were agreeing with Nikki's comment that your opinions counted less than those of us against the board. I've never said that or thought that.
>
> And by the way, I think you're pretty cool. (If that matters.)
>
> KK, Sorry flowers make you sneeze. I'll bring you a bunch and you can dry them in your photo album--like after the prom.
>
> Shelli
Posted by Krazy Kat on June 12, 2002, at 9:26:16
In reply to :) ....defensive reaction(s) to your concerns...?, posted by shar on June 10, 2002, at 23:08:13
then I'm singling someone out and I (underlined) will be drawn into the discussion further. sigh.
i thought your post was well-put, shar, and not defensive at all. go smell the flowers as well. :)
Posted by Krazy Kat on June 12, 2002, at 9:27:35
In reply to Re: :) ....defensive reaction(s) to your concerns...? » shar, posted by ShelliR on June 10, 2002, at 23:21:57
this will get redirected and i will never see it again because i don't visit social anymore...
i had forgotten completely about that. i still have some. that makes me feel odd for some reason...
Posted by Krazy Kat on June 12, 2002, at 9:28:58
In reply to if i say reaction - no s... » shar, posted by Krazy Kat on June 12, 2002, at 9:26:16
either, so that he doesn't blow flower smoke in my face.
This is the end of the thread.
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