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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 27, 2002, at 8:36:09
I Was tired last night - i posted two things that are not here today - my guess is i closed the window before submitting.
Anyway, I am flying away for a little while into my own world.
I keep hoping for two things:
1. That a memorial (even a small phrase) will be posted on psycho babble for sar. i think the dismissal of her death is atrocious. most of the comments re: it are archived already - some folks just checking in don't even know she's gone...
2. That Dr. B will admit the closed format of the new boards is a mistake. And open them or redo the whole damn thing.
If I think of anything further to bitch about before I go for awhile, I'll post again.
I cursed twice. Perhaps that will get me a PBC anyway. :)
Good luck everyone in the meantime.
- kk
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 27, 2002, at 20:04:00
In reply to taking a break..., posted by Krazy Kat on April 27, 2002, at 8:36:09
> I keep hoping for two things:
>
> 1. That a memorial (even a small phrase) will be posted on psycho babble for sar.I want to do something with at least the thread I started on PSB. But I've been, um, busy with other things...
Bob
Posted by Greg on April 28, 2002, at 2:06:44
In reply to Re: taking a break..., posted by Dr. Bob on April 27, 2002, at 20:04:00
> > I keep hoping for two things:
> >
> > 1. That a memorial (even a small phrase) will be posted on psycho babble for sar.
>
> I want to do something with at least the thread I started on PSB. But I've been, um, busy with other things...
>
> BobBob,
If the "other things" that you have been busy with is all this bantering back and forth over the new board, then I think I can safely speak for most people when I say we'd rather see you put you energies into a tribute for Sar. KK was right when she said that we've lost sight of what is really important in such a short period of time.
Greg
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 28, 2002, at 10:06:06
In reply to Re: taking a break...Bob, posted by Greg on April 28, 2002, at 2:06:44
> If the "other things" that you have been busy with is all this bantering back and forth over the new board, then I think I can safely speak for most people when I say we'd rather see you put you energies into a tribute for Sar. KK was right when she said that we've lost sight of what is really important in such a short period of time.
I appreciate your input, but IMO, hurt feelings really important, so as long as there's a lot of tension here, I want to do what I can here. But my idea was to collect together some posts by or about her. So if you had any suggestions, it would help if you posted them to:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20020403/msgs/21675.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by fi on April 29, 2002, at 12:50:03
In reply to Re: taking a break..., posted by Dr. Bob on April 28, 2002, at 10:06:06
While it is important that Dr Bob gives space on the boards for whatever is produced, why expect him to do all the work on producing some memorial, and give him a hard time when he doesnt (and had started the PSB thread)?
I hope those that knew her better than me will contribute as Dr Bob suggests below.
Fi
>I want to do what I can here. But my idea was to collect together some posts by or about her. So if you had any suggestions, it would help if you posted them to:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20020403/msgs/21675.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 29, 2002, at 16:10:45
In reply to Memorial to sar, posted by fi on April 29, 2002, at 12:50:03
Fi:
I'm trying not to post but this hits a raw nerve. I did not ask Dr. Bob to do all the work on a memorial. It takes 30 seconds to put up a phrase within the intro of these pages saying we/he misses her, etc., etc. There was a lot of input on Sar in the last social page by the members which has been archived already.
He is distanced from the lost, and it really is appropriate that he be the one to lead a memorial for her. That doesn't mean that we can't do one as well, but something needs to be done Toot Sweet so people know it has happened. I can't get into his files and add a permanent comment on the pages so people who weren't around know. It also takes folks a different amount of time to pull things together for her - it's going to take me awhile - I still cry whenever I go through her emails or posts.
Your comment really hurt.
- kk
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 29, 2002, at 16:52:52
In reply to Re: Memorial to sar » fi, posted by Krazy Kat on April 29, 2002, at 16:10:45
out of everything that's been thrown back and forth lately, this was by far the worst, because it involves a personal struggle with a death.
the grieving process takes time. dr. b is a professional in this field and has the skill to offer an appropriate response quickly. instead the old timers' board popped up. which is a completely different issue, it just seems one outweighs the other.
i really Do need to leave for awhile. i hope sar isn't observing it all right now...
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 29, 2002, at 18:42:59
In reply to really, fi, posted by Krazy Kat on April 29, 2002, at 16:52:52
> I did not ask Dr. Bob to do all the work on a memorial. It takes 30 seconds to put up a phrase within the intro of these pages saying we/he misses her, etc., etc.
Sorry, I misunderstood, I thought you were referring to a memorial. Not to diminish her loss, but I've had mixed feelings about adding something to the "front pages", for example:
> > Research finds an increase in suicide by readers or viewers when... the story of an individual death by suicide is placed on the front page or at the beginning of a broadcast.
> > Reporting on Suicide: Recommendations for the Media
> > http://www.afsp.org/education/printrecommendations.htm> I still cry whenever I go through her emails or posts.
The grieving process does take time, and how much time will vary from person to person. I'm not sure how that's going to work in a setting like this. Maybe people who are moved to post can try to do so in the same thread or two, to maintain some momentum?
Bob
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 29, 2002, at 19:29:22
In reply to Re: grieving, posted by Dr. Bob on April 29, 2002, at 18:42:59
Dr. Bob:
I have never been so at odds with you. I was commenting on Fi's posts, obviously, but since you dropped in:
"Whenever possible, it is preferable to avoid referring to suicide in the headline. Unless the suicide death took place in public, the cause of death should be reported in the body of the story and not in the headline."
So, how about "In Memory of Sar"; "Sar - we remember you fondly"; "Sar, you touched our hearts"...
We discuss suicide openly on this sight constantly - it's there for ANYONE to read.
You're handling this horrifically. Is this not something you've handled before? I f******* (add as many asteriks as seem appropriate) give up on this subject. I feel as if I've been hurt more by the way you have handled this than any other medical experience.
I was going to let all of this go, because I really don't want the site to close down due to too much work, etc., so please don't consider my feelings an example of others. i think we may have come to a standstill, though, and i Have to stop posting. wow. sad. i'm so sad about the way this has been treated.
I'm not going to look for examples, but I'm sure there are other references re: the benefit of posting about suicide and then linking to resources.
I am at such a loss, and such a pain.
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 29, 2002, at 22:22:22
In reply to Re: grieving » Dr. Bob, posted by Krazy Kat on April 29, 2002, at 19:29:22
Posted by Zo on April 29, 2002, at 23:27:12
In reply to Re: grieving » Dr. Bob, posted by Krazy Kat on April 29, 2002, at 19:29:22
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 30, 2002, at 8:57:55
In reply to Re: KK, please know you are supported. . . (nm) » Krazy Kat, posted by Zo on April 29, 2002, at 23:27:12
Dr. B:
I overdramatized last night - the "worst medical experience" (my words) - not by far. Still frustrated and heading off to heal, though.
Good luck pulling it all back into shape. Seems as if folks on social are doing a nice job "policing" broken civility rules. i think when one sees the type of venomous post that can be a part of the board (aka "scared"), it puts the more administrative debates more into perspective.
Re: the new board and why you don't understand why it's a mountain to some -- i think this is part of the problem right now. it seems to me that the answer to this has actually been over-stated here - it's the fact that both new boards are exclusionary goes against some folk's principles. i *think* it's that simple. the bad results of the creation of little "cliques" as they've been called are potentially many.
take care.
- kk
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 30, 2002, at 10:24:42
In reply to thanks, zo - kk overdramatizing, dr. b...., posted by Krazy Kat on April 30, 2002, at 8:57:55
> I'm sure there are other references re: the benefit of posting about suicide and then linking to resources.
Sorry, did I say people shouldn't post about suicide or link to resources?
> I am at such a loss, and such a pain.
As Zo said, please know you are supported here...
> both new boards are exclusionary goes against some folk's principles. i *think* it's that simple. the bad results of the creation of little "cliques" as they've been called are potentially many.
If someone's just fundamentally morally opposed to exclusion, OK, I can accept that. But what about your usual class reunions? Or, maybe an even better example, what about locker rooms, aren't they usually exclusionary?
"Clique" may imply opposition, and that's the last thing we need, but, as I've asked before, couldn't these new boards come together in a more positive way?
Bob
Posted by Fi on April 30, 2002, at 12:38:16
In reply to Re: Memorial to sar » fi, posted by Krazy Kat on April 29, 2002, at 16:10:45
Sorry, kk
I misunderstood your meaning as you expecting Dr Bob to do it all. I hope that you misunderstood me too,as I know that happens easily here with these short messages.
I wasnt in any way dismissing the contributions to the Boards made by Babblers, or the distress caused by sar's death.
And I certainly agree its a *much* more important issue than the endless discussion of the 2000 board.
I do realise that its up to Dr Bob to provide a place for the acknowledgement. And I can see that sometimes its painful that he limits himself to offering a setting, rather than direct psychological support.
I was only attempting to point out it wasnt up to him alone. And of course there are already relevant, moving posts. And no rush for anyone to contribute until they are ready.
Fi
Posted by kid_A on April 30, 2002, at 16:15:59
In reply to Re: Memorial to sar, posted by Fi on April 30, 2002, at 12:38:16
As someone who was immediately taken by sar's initial posts and who in the end, created a great bond and friendship from this, perhaps I'm biased in thinking that a little note, just something small that says we miss her is not too much to ask.I'ts very difficult for me to go back and read her posts, her emails, to remember the sound of her voice, it hurts more than anything I've had to deal with in a very long time... In that respect, perhaps a little something, somewhere, if only on PSB where she posted primarily if not exclusively would mean a lot to me, and I know a lot to others who were fortunate enough to get to know her as well...
just a thought from someone who cares... (not to say that anyone else -doesnt-)
Posted by Fi on May 1, 2002, at 11:49:39
In reply to Re: Memorial to sar, posted by kid_A on April 30, 2002, at 16:15:59
This is so *hard* to do properly- I understand both Kid A and Dr Bob's positions..
Is there *any* way round it? If PSB is too controversial, howabout having 'remembering sar' as a link from the PB2000 board (if she joined then)to a page on PBO containing bookmarks to the memorial messages. That board is unlikely to be the first stop for the new to the boards and suicidal, if that is a problem? But it would at least mean something on the boards. And some relevance to PB2000 in its role of catching up on what happened to posters.
Is this really the same sort of thing as newspaper reporting which can lead to 'suicide contagion'? Ok, it shows people kill themselves, but dont suicidal people know that already? It also shows just how much distress is caused to those left behind. This could be seen as useful in suicide *prevention* as its real proof of this factor, which is often used in trying to get suicidal people to reconsider?But I really dont know if there will be a solution to this. I hope there will be.
I asked in a post ages ago if this has happened before? If so, what was decided then? I can see it is probably more likely to be the case that we wouldnt actually know a poster had killed themselves, so it may not have happened like this before.
I hope I havent upset anyone with this post- I really dont want to, and respect the distress.
Fi
Posted by Zo on May 1, 2002, at 18:10:26
In reply to Re: Memorial to sar, posted by Fi on May 1, 2002, at 11:49:39
. .for a memorial page, only it isn't up yet. Developer late. Should be up within a few weeks. But I think Kiddo has already offered to host it on hers?Zo
Posted by Zo on May 1, 2002, at 18:26:31
In reply to Re: suicide and exclusion, posted by Dr. Bob on April 30, 2002, at 10:24:42
Think about it---a class reunion doesn't go on forever! It's a party, a chance to see old friends. . .
ERGO: Make 2000 time-delimited !!
Like, "2000 Summer Reunion"
Is this a great idea or what!
A) It serves the community that wants a reunion
B) It give them plenty of time to reune.
C) It brings them back into the fold later on
D) Everybody gets what they want!
E) Eventually, 2000 will either peter out or become truly devisive anyway; this heads off both possiblities.F) Not much work for Bob; just a name change and note at top.
"Summer OT 2000 Reunion, through Sept. 1"
Zo(that's alright, no need to thank me.
tho i do have a paypal account.)
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 1, 2002, at 23:27:20
In reply to Re: Memorial to sar, posted by Fi on May 1, 2002, at 11:49:39
> I asked in a post ages ago if this has happened before?
Sorry, I must have missed it. Not that I know of, no.
> I can see it is probably more likely to be the case that we wouldnt actually know a poster had killed themselves, so it may not have happened like this before.
Right, that's definitely a factor.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 8, 2002, at 0:57:15
In reply to re: The PERFECT SOLUTION for PB2000 !!! » Dr. Bob, posted by Zo on May 1, 2002, at 18:26:31
> Think about it---a class reunion doesn't go on forever! It's a party, a chance to see old friends. . .
>
> ERGO: Make 2000 time-delimited !!Maybe the reason they don't keep going in "real" life is because everyone has to go back home? Which isn't the case here...
> E) Eventually, 2000 will either peter out or become truly devisive anyway; this heads off both possiblities.
Well, it might also peter out some, but still continue to be used now and then...
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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