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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2002, at 22:00:10
Re: How did any of this happen??????? » andyboy
Posted by Hollywood Jerry on April 4, 2002, at 11:18:44In reply to http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020327/msgs/100751.html
> Andy,
>
> "Don't wrestle with the pigs. You get dirty and the pigs like it."
> - Unknown source
>
> HJ----
Re: How did any of this happen??????? » Elizabeth
Posted by Hollywood Jerry on April 4, 2002, at 11:27:06In reply to http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020402/msgs/101766.html
> > That's funny; I was wondering something similar. I posted a one-line response: I don't think it's appropriate to stereotype people. This is hardly a controversial position for me to take; I think most people would agree that stereotyping isn't appropriate. Yet you became very angry or upset.
> >
>
> I agree I don't think it is appropriate to stereotype.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020322/msgs/100467.html
>
> HJ----
Re: How did any of this happen???????
Posted by beardedlady on April 4, 2002, at 12:59:50In reply to Re: How did any of this happen??????? » Elizabeth, posted by Hollywood Jerry on April 4, 2002, at 11:27:06
> I don't think stereotyping is what andyboy meant to do or did. What he said was not some horrible, evil, antagonistic lie; it was simply his belief. So it doesn't apply to everyone. Maybe there's a better way to say so.
>
> How this happened is that people attacked him, rather than the position he took.
>
> What I want to know is why folks are dwelling on this? Plenty of other folks on the board have said some pretty horrific things--especially during this week.
>
> beardy :-/----
Re: I concur
Posted by Hollywood Jerry on April 4, 2002, at 13:13:07In reply to Re: How did any of this happen???????, posted by beardedlady on
April 4, 2002, at 12:59:50> > I don't think stereotyping is what andyboy meant to do or did. What he said was not some horrible, evil, antagonistic lie; it was simply his belief. So it doesn't apply to everyone. Maybe there's a better way to say so.
> >
>
> Yes, I agree 100 percent! Sorry, I did not mean to insinuate that Andy was stereotyping, or that this was his intention. I was agreeing that stereotyping itself is bad, which is a no brainer.
>
> > How this happened is that people attacked him, rather than the position he took.
> >
>
> Yes, my feeling is that this may have taken place.
>
> > What I want to know is why folks are dwelling on this? Plenty of other folks on the board have said some pretty horrific things--especially during this week.
> >
>
> This is a good point. Let's move on.
>
> Thank You.
>
> HJ
>
> > beardy :-/----
Elizabeth-i didn't just make this up....
Posted by andyboy on April 4, 2002, at 19:41:02In reply to Re: I concur, posted by Hollywood Jerry on April 4, 2002, at 13:13:07
> SUGGESTIBILITY
>
> "...a (sensitized) person can be easily misled into thinking any suggestion that brings such strong reactions as he/she feels must be important. He/She becomes suggestible to so much. Reading a newspaper can be a real hazard. A report on illness, especially nervous illness, so impresses him/her that it can easily upset him/her for days. He/She thinks that if they haven't already had all of the described symptoms, he/she soon will have...the wrong suggestions produce fear, and fear is felt so acutely that it can override other feelings. It is because the negative, destructive suggestions carry such threat and therefore come with such force that they cling tenatiously and are so often mistaken for the truth."
>
> "Peace From Nervous Suffering"
> Dr. Claire Weeks
> Chapter 4, page 49
>
> A doctor -world renowned in her field. Stop by Barnes and Noble -they should have it.....
Posted by Zo on April 4, 2002, at 23:08:59
Andyboy,
Would you please read my post in the Please be civil thread? Link below. It contains an apology to you, and an explanation--for my second, snotty post.
My first post to you was nothing more than a reminder that suggestible *might* be incivil (uncivil?) You took the ball and ran--but you know what? You had a *lot* of help from those who came to defend you--when you didn't DO anything. This must have been way confusing!
What you saw, in part, were the effect of other tensions from another Babble board, tensions you'd have no way of knowing about. Sorry they got acted out on your thread!
Let's not worry the thing to death--clearly "suggestible" is one of those words that can go either way. Thanks for the refs! -- Zo
Posted by Zo on April 4, 2002, at 23:08:59
Andyboy,
Would you please read my post in the Please be civil thread? Link below. It contains an apology to you, and an explanation--for my second, snotty post.
My first post to you was nothing more than a reminder that suggestible *might* be incivil (uncivil?) You took the ball and ran--but you know what? You had a *lot* of help from those who came to defend you--when you didn't DO anything. This must have been way confusing!
What you saw, in part, were the effect of other tensions from another Babble board, tensions you'd have no way of knowing about. Sorry they got acted out on your thread!
Let's not worry the thing to death--clearly "suggestible" is one of those words that can go either way. Thanks for the refs! -- Zo
Posted by Zo on April 4, 2002, at 23:10:24
In reply to Re: How did any of this happen???????, posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2002, at 22:00:10
Posted by Janelle on April 4, 2002, at 23:57:55
In reply to my first redirect, it *almost* went right (nm) » Dr. Bob, posted by Zo on April 4, 2002, at 23:10:24
Posted by Dinah on April 5, 2002, at 0:49:11
In reply to Re: Andyboy - how it happened , posted by Zo on April 4, 2002, at 23:08:59
Andyboy, I would just ignore this thread but I wanted to make one thing clear to you if to no one else. It has been obliquely and rather directly suggested that I used your thread to try to drag you into a separate contretemps or to incite you to riot or something.
I made exactly two posts on the thread in question. The first post was a comment on ALL the replies to your post, not any particular one. As I stated clearly, I thought your intentions were good, that the gist of your initial post had been posted elsewhere without uproar (usually on threads that people perceived to be "pushing" products or encouraging people to stop taking meds), and that the replies to your post were, at the very least, not phrased as politely as they could have been. I had no intention of drawing you into anything, just to show you support. My post to you came after three posts to you that you had found to be unsupportive judging from your replies. The content of my reply had nothing whatsoever to do with the identity of the posters. If you have any doubts, please check the sequence of posts. They will support what I am saying.
My second post came after Zo's second post to you - the one she has apologized for. And since she has apologized, I won't quote her from that post. But at that point I will admit to having more than a bit of fellow feeling for you. So my post may have contained a bit of that feeling. My intention was not to draw you into anything. But perhaps my recent hurt at the post I linked to in my post to you may have influenced the way I phrased my reply. If so, I apologize for dragging my own hurt into your thread. But I assure you that whether or not I had been hurt I would have still posted again in support of you. And I doubly assure you that I in no way intended to use you or your thread to do anything but give you support, although I will admit to being upset at the time, and that feeling of hurt may have coloured my second post. The first one, I reiterate, was general in nature. Now I will clearly confess that my post to Dr. Bob was made in pure outrage that you alone had received a Please Be Civil. And that the posts to you and the post to me were not considered uncivil. I will openly admit this.
Anyway, Andy, you can draw your own conclusions. But I didn't want you to think that I was using you, because that was never my intention.
And everyone else is also free to draw their own conclusions. I don't intend to respond to this accusation again.
To be fair to the people making the accusation, I had rather recently expressed my hurt at having my posts called judgemental, condescending, and likely to push people away. And I had expressed my hurt in one of my infamous meltdowns, which I had the brilliant idea of documenting on the board. So I had recently made a scene. And embarassed myself thoroughly. So I suppose I can expect people to accuse me of doing other things as well. That is the price a person pays for making a scene. And why I place so much importance on personal control. And why I so intensely dislike it when I lose control.
Now, before anyone accuses me of trying to keep this thread going or of trying to involve anyone in anything, I will remind everyone that I am only responding because several people have made the suggestion that I was attempting to draw Andy into another conflict. I am simply telling Andy that that is not true. And explaining why it was not true. I did not start this up again, I am merely responding. And I probably wouldn't have responded any more except that the accusations are being made to Andy, and I don't want Andy to feel like I have used him when I had no intention of doing so.
And I will probably live to regret writing this response.
Posted by Zo on April 5, 2002, at 4:02:14
In reply to What didn't go right?! (nm) » Zo, posted by Janelle on April 4, 2002, at 23:57:55
Posted by Zo on April 5, 2002, at 4:28:19
In reply to What didn't go right?! (nm) » Zo, posted by Janelle on April 4, 2002, at 23:57:55
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2002, at 9:49:02
In reply to Showed up here as new thread. . .?? (nm) » Janelle, posted by Zo on April 5, 2002, at 4:02:14
> Showed up here as new thread
Sorry, the system wasn't designed with redirecting in mind. Redirected posts automatically start new threads. Because I couldn't figure out an easy way to insert them anywhere else.
If you want to add one to an existing thread, then you have to do something like start a reply to the post you want to redirect, copy it, start a reply to a post in the thread you want to redirect it to, paste in the redirected post, and confirm that reply.
Bob
Posted by Elizabeth on April 7, 2002, at 18:22:39
In reply to Re: How did any of this happen???????, posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2002, at 22:00:10
Beardedlady:
> > I don't think stereotyping is what andyboy meant to do or did. What he said was not some horrible, evil, antagonistic lie; it was simply his belief. So it doesn't apply to everyone. Maybe there's a better way to say so.I think there might be a double standard here. If somebody believed that, say, women tend to be "suggestible," I think a lot of people would be pretty disgusted. Whether or not Andy genuinely believes what he said -- and I'm sure he does -- it's still a stereotype. Stereotyping doesn't happen because people make up evil lies (or whatever). Stereotypes exist because people don't question the things that they've heard.
Andy:
Okay, so you got this idea from a book you read. I'm sure we all know that an appeal to authority doesn't constitute evidence. The quote you posted may be applicable to certain kinds of psychiatric conditions ("somatic disorders," they're called; they include such things as hypochondriasis and conversion disorder), but it has little or nothing to do with depression or anxiety disorders. I don't even see the words "depression" or anxiety" in the quote you selected; "nervous suffering" might be taken to apply to anxiety (some people with panic disorder, in particular, find Weeks's self-help suggestions useful), but as it turns out, the actual evidence doesn't support this particular bit of speculation. (If you know of any evidence that I might not be aware of, please by all means post it. Evidence, mind you, not just somebody's opinion.)
Your caution not to believe everything we read is getting more and more ironic.
-elizabeth
This is the end of the thread.
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