![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Janelle on April 4, 2002, at 22:48:34
Dr. Bob,
What I thought would be a harmless, interesting survey has stirred up controversy that has me very upset. I'm a gentle, sensitive person and the last thing I want is to generate controversy.
I am asking you to PLEASE, PLEASE, delete the actual survey thread from the SOCIAL BOARD and delete your Redirect (link to survey) from BABBLE.
I simply want any mention of this thing (the survey) removed from PB and PSB.
Thank you ever so much.
Posted by Zo on April 4, 2002, at 23:13:56
In reply to Dr. Bob - I have concerns about the darn SURVEY:, posted by Janelle on April 4, 2002, at 22:48:34
Janelle, I know how you feel, but please, don't worry yourself another minute. You committed nary a faux pas . and even if you did, you know what? I've about croaked in embarrassment. . .and the board rolls on. We make less of an impression than we think. . Oh dear, did that come out right? ;o
extracting foot from mouth,
Zo
Posted by Janelle on April 5, 2002, at 0:03:28
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob - I have concerns about the darn SURVE » Janelle, posted by Zo on April 4, 2002, at 23:13:56
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2002, at 0:16:47
In reply to Dr. Bob - I have concerns about the darn SURVEY:, posted by Janelle on April 4, 2002, at 22:48:34
> What I thought would be a harmless, interesting survey has stirred up controversy that has me very upset. I'm a gentle, sensitive person and the last thing I want is to generate controversy.
Thanks for your concern. But just because your post led to some controversy doesn't mean you "generated" it...
> I am asking you to PLEASE, PLEASE, delete the actual survey thread from the SOCIAL BOARD and delete your Redirect (link to survey) from BABBLE.
My redirect post I took care of when I deleted the posts that were duplicates of those on PSB. But other than duplicates, I really don't like to delete posts. And IMO the survey is OK.
Bob
Posted by Janelle on April 5, 2002, at 0:53:48
In reply to Re: concerns about the darn SURVEY, posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2002, at 0:16:47
Posted by Janelle on April 5, 2002, at 1:06:08
In reply to Dr. Bob: OK, guess I'll have to live w/ it on PSB! (nm) » Dr. Bob, posted by Janelle on April 5, 2002, at 0:53:48
Dr. Bob, just curious - why don't you like to delete posts? Especially if the person asking you to delete one (me!) is asking for you to please delete one of their own (mine!) posts?!!
Awwh, go ahead, please delete that survey post over on PSB, make an exception, just this one time?
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 5, 2002, at 8:13:43
In reply to WOOPS! DR.BOB - question in here 4 U:, posted by Janelle on April 5, 2002, at 1:06:08
Friends;
Janell's survey is of great importance to this board. It raises tremendous issues that need to be addressed here so that growth can take place. Dr. Bob has said that the survey is permissible here and that is what I was asking for him to do for it is an administrative dision and not ours to make. More later.
Lou
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2002, at 9:29:35
Lou's answer to those that want Janelle's survey
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 5, 2002, at 7:58:19In reply to http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20020403/msgs/21478.html
> Friends;
> There are many important issues involved in Jannell's survey. This issue went to the U.S. Supreme Court to be decieded over 20 years ago. The rulling was that the survey was not permissible if the administration wanted to ban it. It did not have constitutional protection under the first amendment. The case involved a Public employee in a law office and he posted the survey in the lounge and contested that his first amendment rights protected the survey. Wrong, said the US Supreme court on the same grounds that I have said, and the survey maker used the same arguments here to have the survey and those arguments were poo-pood. For the survey was confrontational and arroused adverse feelings about other employees and his boss and they were not volintary in respect that the survey to those that did not answer were subjected to a cloud of suspition. The questions involve matters of confidentualality and have no foundation to be raised and there is no purpose demanding the survey questions to be answererd.
> I asked Dr. Bob to make a determination for it is his option to allow the survey. That doesn't mean that I have to agree that the survey could benifit or advance the cause of this board. In fact, I believe that the survey is harmfull to many members of PB for the reasons already stated. There are other very important issues that I will address in regards to the survey in my next post.
> Lou----
Lou's answer to is the survey volintary?
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 5, 2002, at 8:45:13In reply to Lou's answer to those that want Janelle's survey, posted by Lou Pilder on April 5, 2002, at 7:58:19
> Friends;
> Is the survey volintary? When I was a teacher, the administration initiated a bible-study after school. I was the only jewish teacher, or student in the school. I made a legal challenge to stop the bible study and the administration's argument was that it was volintary. Wrong said the judge. It was held after school so the school officials already had the students there. Thearfore, it was not volintary. To be volintary, the students would have to first go home and return in the evening on their own volition.
> I believe that that principle prevails here also since the posters are allready on the board. I believe for the survey to be volintary, that the posters should give their answeres by email to show that it is private and on their own volition. I will answer the other issues on my next post.
> Lou----
Lou's answer to are the survey questionharmless?
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 5, 2002, at 9:04:21In reply to Lou's answer to is the survey volintary?, posted by Lou Pilder on April 5, 2002, at 8:45:13
> Friends;
> Beirdee says that the survey questions are harmless. I disagree with Beirdee for the questions are ,imo,flagerantly profane and obscene. the questions demand that the answerer devulge great inner torment to the surveyer, such as if they are on public assisitsnce, or working or unmarried or married all as a result of their afflictions.
> Now when I was a teacher, I was the only jewish teacher in the school and the teachers accosted me in the lounge and said to me,"Were taking a survey, Mr. Pilder. How many of your relitives were murdered by the Nazis?". "Do you like Hitler?,Mr. Pilder?"
> I made a legal challenge againt the schoolboard and the teachers said that they had a right to confront me with their questions because they were taking A SURVEY. My lawyers countered with that the teachers were really trying to arrouse anti-Semitic feelings amoung the staff and students and that they were trying to remind me of the horrors of Nazism to inflict great emotional pain upon me. I settled the case with them befor trial so we did not get a formal rulling. However, there are numerous cases in case law that affirm my position and that the survey was just a transparrent attempt to arrouse anti-Semitic feelings toward me by the teachers.
> Now I am not contending at all that Jannell's survey was directed at anyone and I am making this disclaimer. But I do believe that any survey that lacks any proper foundation could be construed to have an ulterior purpose. Maybe I missed something in another thread that demended that the survey be taken. But I am not requirered to serch all the archives to find such.
> Lou----
Lou's answer to we are big boys and can answer
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 5, 2002, at 9:21:32In reply to For heaven's sake! She's not Stanley Milgram! » Lou Pilder, posted by beardedlady on April 5, 2002, at 6:34:57
> Friends;
> Beerdee says that "we are big boys and can answer for ourselves". I disagree with her on the following grounds:
> There are many people on this board that are showing signs of being dibilitated, impaired and many are in great depression. Depression alone robs us of being able to make decisions as well as those that are not impaired. Anyone can see the suffering of the people on this board. I don't believe that a person that is attempting suicide is capable of making rational decisions like those that are not attempting suicide. I don't believe that a person that is in psychotic depression can make rational decisions like those that are not in psychotic depression. I don't believe that a person that has just been firered from their job and lost their livelyhood can make rational decisions like those that are gainfully employed. I don't believe that a person suffering an adverse reaction to a psychotropic drug can make a rational decision like those that are not suffering an adverse reaction tio a psychotropic drug.. I don't believe that a person going through withdraw can make a rational decision like those that are not going through withdrawal.
> Lou
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2002, at 9:50:51
In reply to WOOPS! DR.BOB - question in here 4 U:, posted by Janelle on April 5, 2002, at 1:06:08
> why don't you like to delete posts?
Because then the record of what happened here isn't as complete.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2002, at 10:42:31
In reply to Lou's answers « Lou Pilder, posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2002, at 9:29:35
> There are many people on this board that are showing signs of being dibilitated, impaired and many are in great depression. Depression alone robs us of being able to make decisions as well as those that are not impaired...
The assumption here, and probably in general, is that people are competent. In fact, the explicit informed consent process here not only asks for informed consent, but shows (or at least provides some evidence of) decision-making capacity.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 5, 2002, at 11:57:30
In reply to Re: being able to make decisions, posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2002, at 10:42:31
Dr. Bob;
When people sign up to be on PB, they say that they can make decisions. I believe that many who are contemplating comming on to any board would say the same.
Also, people change after they come on to the board. They suffer depression after they sign on. They suffer an adverse reaction to a drug after they come on. They become addicted and go into withdrawal after they sign on. They have suicide ideations after they sign on. They loose their livelyhoods after they sign on.
I believe that even though someone may sign on here as being compitant to make decisions, that they do not know what that means some times, and that they can experiance changes that effect their ability to make decisions such as depression, withdrawal, extreme loss, drug reactions, and others.
Lou
Posted by Zo on April 5, 2002, at 17:17:43
In reply to Lou's answer to Dr. Bob » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on April 5, 2002, at 11:57:30
. . .we cannot TAKE care of of others, we can only CARE. Actively.Zo
Posted by kid_A on April 5, 2002, at 18:32:25
In reply to Re: Yes, Lou, but » Lou Pilder, posted by Zo on April 5, 2002, at 17:17:43
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2002, at 18:43:45
In reply to Ah My post must have been unCivil, as it was Axed. (nm), posted by kid_A on April 5, 2002, at 18:32:25
Your post on PSB? Or here? I deleted a bunch of posts there because they should've been posted here, not because they were uncivil.
Bob
Posted by kid_A on April 5, 2002, at 19:20:47
In reply to Re: My post must have been unCivil, posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2002, at 18:43:45
> Your post on PSB? Or here? I deleted a bunch of posts there because they should've been posted here, not because they were uncivil.
My "Give it a rest" (nm) post on PSB disapeared, not to mention some follow up posts by beardedlady re: Stanley Milgram which I found rather interesting... My post is not all that important to me as now the spam-like endless posts have been concisely redirected into one large post...
Posted by Zo on April 6, 2002, at 1:11:44
In reply to Re: My post must have been unCivil, posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2002, at 18:43:45
Whoa! Now instead of doing redirects, you're DELETING posts? Was this announced beforehand? Your bad.
Plus, of course, all the time you're going to spend explaining to people where their post went.
;o
Zo
Posted by beardedlady on April 6, 2002, at 5:46:13
In reply to Re: My post must have been unCivil » Dr. Bob, posted by Zo on April 6, 2002, at 1:11:44
Yes, I distinctly remember you saying that posts COULD NOT be deleted because they would wreck the history of the thread and mess up the archives. Now my husband's mad at me because I had been at the computer working all day, and I checked the board one last time before bed when my eyes already hurt, and he wanted to know why I was on the damned computer--was I addicted? It's hard to explain to a technophobic luddite that I posted something that disappeared and why that's a problem--especially when you already suffer from some mental disease that he doesn't understand (even though it's just insomnia, though he wants to make it some big fear of death problem).
It is 6:44 a.m., and if he comes down the steps, I'm in BIG trouble. I'll be, I'll be GROUNDED! (And that will be a first.)
beardy : (>
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 6, 2002, at 17:06:23
In reply to That's your bad, Dr. B., posted by beardedlady on April 6, 2002, at 5:46:13
> Now my husband's mad at me because I had been at the computer working all day, and I checked the board one last time before bed when my eyes already hurt, and he wanted to know why I was on the damned computer--was I addicted? It's hard to explain to a technophobic luddite that I posted something that disappeared and why that's a problem--especially when you already suffer from some mental disease that he doesn't understand (even though it's just insomnia, though he wants to make it some big fear of death problem).
>
> It is 6:44 a.m., and if he comes down the steps, I'm in BIG trouble. I'll be, I'll be GROUNDED! (And that will be a first.)Sorry again. Tell him it's my fault?
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.