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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Wendy on March 27, 2001, at 17:12:05
You are underestimating the emotions of people on this board if you think that my reply in question was 'uncivil'. It was not meant to be nor was it taken as such! The opinion I was replying to was derogatory and misinformed.....this person obviously knows very little (if anything) about the diagnostics of PMDD and it's medical treatment! If I cannot refute another's comment in this thread (I noticed that you didn't remonstrate this person for their obviously callous remark!?), then how do you plan to keep this thread going??????
Most of the people writing here are in desperate need of REASSURANCE, not damaging commentary by someone who has NOTHING positive to say. Please, either stop slapping my wrist every time "I" say something not positive in refute of another's comments in same manner; if you can't/won't allow this, then let me know now and I'll look elsewhere for support on this subject.
Sincerely,
Wendy
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 29, 2001, at 11:32:39
In reply to Being civil, posted by Wendy on March 27, 2001, at 17:12:05
> You are underestimating the emotions of people on this board if you think that my reply in question was 'uncivil'. It was not meant to be nor was it taken as such!
I didn't mean to imply that you *meant* to be uncivil. And it's not clear to me how you'd know how it was or wasn't taken.
> If I cannot refute another's comment in this thread...
Different points of view are fine, and in fact encouraged. But that's not the issue here.
> (I noticed that you didn't remonstrate this person for their obviously callous remark!?)
First, two wrongs don't make a right. Second, how was it obviously callous?
> Please, either stop slapping my wrist every time "I" say something not positive in refute of another's comments in same manner; if you can't/won't allow this, then let me know now and I'll look elsewhere for support on this subject.
I won't allow comments like the ones I pointed out, for the reasons I gave. If that's not acceptable to you, then maybe it would in fact be a good idea to look elsewhere for support. I can't please everyone all the time.
Bob
Posted by AMenz on June 1, 2001, at 11:22:57
In reply to Re: Being civil, posted by Dr. Bob on March 29, 2001, at 11:32:39
The board is absolutety wonderful. Nowhere else have I found frank discussion by a very small subsection of the population, i.e., the treatment resistant. It is invaluable.
I would like to offer some feedback. I am concerned at the strong response from administration to dissent couched in terms that are less than civil, to use your term.
I believe it is sometimes difficult for people with emotional disorders to be appropriate socially, specially when expressing dissent.
Expressing dissent in a socially acceptable manner is indeed a tricky social skill that even well people find difficult to master.
Yet it's crucial for the mentally ill to express those feelings that they have that seem to run counter to the experience of others. I think that is almost the gist of the social experience of mental illness, to have feelings and thoughts that do not mesh with those of people who are biochemically normal.
This board could be a wonderful opportunity to offer feedback as to how to couch dissent in better terms so that it will be listened to instead of shunned. It could be a teaching tool.
I appreciate that well indiviuals are people too and react negatively to behavior that is perceived as insulting. I also appreciate the need to keep the site under some control, but I hope you consider my view which is meant in the most respectful manner.
Please let me know your thoughts on this matter.
Thanking you again for the board.
Ali
> > You are underestimating the emotions of people on this board if you think that my reply in question was 'uncivil'. It was not meant to be nor was it taken as such!
>
> I didn't mean to imply that you *meant* to be uncivil. And it's not clear to me how you'd know how it was or wasn't taken.
>
> > If I cannot refute another's comment in this thread...
>
> Different points of view are fine, and in fact encouraged. But that's not the issue here.
>
> > (I noticed that you didn't remonstrate this person for their obviously callous remark!?)
>
> First, two wrongs don't make a right. Second, how was it obviously callous?
>
> > Please, either stop slapping my wrist every time "I" say something not positive in refute of another's comments in same manner; if you can't/won't allow this, then let me know now and I'll look elsewhere for support on this subject.
>
> I won't allow comments like the ones I pointed out, for the reasons I gave. If that's not acceptable to you, then maybe it would in fact be a good idea to look elsewhere for support. I can't please everyone all the time.
>
> Bob
Posted by Cam W. on June 1, 2001, at 11:59:43
In reply to Re: Being civil, posted by AMenz on June 1, 2001, at 11:22:57
Ali - I agree with you that this place is an invaluable source of information. I have had more than my fair share of "please be civil" posts from Dr.Bob, and really, by all rights, should have been banned long, long ago.
I do realize that my depression often results in a hair-trigger on my emotions and do shoot from the hip more than I should, especially on issues about which I feel strongly. I do believe that my emotions have helped to put me in the professional position that I am in today. Passion does have its place, but it must be directed and civil.
I look upon the chastisements from Dr.B as sort of a free social skills training course. Pushing the envelope is in my nature and sometimes the line is rather blurry, so I just cross it. Dr.B, whether he knows it or not, has me pulling my toes back from the line, while still maintaining an edge. I have found that people are more likely to listen to what I have to say, if I can relate information to them in a calm, nonaccusatory manner. I was trying to do this most recently on the Truehope thread.
We cannot hide behind our mental illnesses and use them as an excuse for our actions. We need to function in society in a civil manner. If I severely berate someone in society, I could be arrested. Not here, I get a "please be civil" and may some day get a "timeout" (I really hate that term, Bob; some of us find it incredibly condescending). Nevertheless, I guess what I am trying to say is that Psycho-Babble is, in spite of itself, a social skills counseling session. The way we are nudged (forced is too strong a word) in civility does carry over into our real lives. Hell, if we can live here, we can live anywhere.
Just my two-bits - Cam
P.S. Ali, I will answer your post on cognition. I have to research the combinations. I have a feeling that a drug interaction may be your problem, but I have to check it out more thoroughly. Give me a day or two (perhaps a week). The 1st anniversary of the death of my daughter is Tuesday, and I am a little more muddled than usual. Please bear with me. Thanks - C.W.
Posted by Shar on June 1, 2001, at 20:17:27
In reply to Re: Being civil - my two-bits » AMenz, posted by Cam W. on June 1, 2001, at 11:59:43
xx > Ali - I agree with you that this place is an invaluable source of information. I have had more than my fair share of "please be civil" posts from Dr.Bob, and really, by all rights, should have been banned long, long ago.
>
> I do realize that my depression often results in a hair-trigger on my emotions and do shoot from the hip more than I should, especially on issues about which I feel strongly. I do believe that my emotions have helped to put me in the professional position that I am in today. Passion does have its place, but it must be directed and civil.
>
> I look upon the chastisements from Dr.B as sort of a free social skills training course. Pushing the envelope is in my nature and sometimes the line is rather blurry, so I just cross it. Dr.B, whether he knows it or not, has me pulling my toes back from the line, while still maintaining an edge. I have found that people are more likely to listen to what I have to say, if I can relate information to them in a calm, nonaccusatory manner. I was trying to do this most recently on the Truehope thread.
>
> We cannot hide behind our mental illnesses and use them as an excuse for our actions. We need to function in society in a civil manner. If I severely berate someone in society, I could be arrested. Not here, I get a "please be civil" and may some day get a "timeout" (I really hate that term, Bob; some of us find it incredibly condescending). Nevertheless, I guess what I am trying to say is that Psycho-Babble is, in spite of itself, a social skills counseling session. The way we are nudged (forced is too strong a word) in civility does carry over into our real lives. Hell, if we can live here, we can live anywhere.
>
> Just my two-bits - Cam
>
> P.S. Ali, I will answer your post on cognition. I have to research the combinations. I have a feeling that a drug interaction may be your problem, but I have to check it out more thoroughly. Give me a day or two (perhaps a week). The 1st anniversary of the death of my daughter is Tuesday, and I am a little more muddled than usual. Please bear with me. Thanks - C.W.
Posted by Mair on June 1, 2001, at 22:21:15
In reply to Re: Being civil - my two-bits » AMenz, posted by Cam W. on June 1, 2001, at 11:59:43
> I agree with Cam. I'd also like to point out that while many people do have problems keeping their emotional reactions within "normal" limits, many people on this board are also extremely sensitive and it doesn't take much for them to feel very hurt. It's of overriding importance that they feel that this board is a safe haven. It's my observation that after you've been around for awhile and managed to behave yourself most of the time, DR. bob seems to cut a little slack. Sometimes I think his trigger finger is rather quick, but mostly I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Mair
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 2, 2001, at 0:32:38
In reply to Re: Being civil, posted by AMenz on June 1, 2001, at 11:22:57
> I believe it is sometimes difficult for people with emotional disorders to be appropriate socially, specially when expressing dissent.
>
> Expressing dissent in a socially acceptable manner is indeed a tricky social skill that even well people find difficult to master.Yes, I agree.
> Yet it's crucial for the mentally ill to express those feelings that they have that seem to run counter to the experience of others.
It may be -- but it may need to be elsewhere.
> This board could be a wonderful opportunity to offer feedback as to how to couch dissent in better terms so that it will be listened to instead of shunned. It could be a teaching tool.
It could be, see the discussion below regarding "alternative sentences":
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20010315/msgs/1310.html
Bob
Posted by Shar on June 2, 2001, at 23:01:43
In reply to Re: Being civil - my two-bits, posted by Mair on June 1, 2001, at 22:21:15
You make a good point, about people here being sensitive and may feel hurt easily. The "PBC" or please-be-civil is always after the fact, when someone may have already gotten hurt. I wonder if it would be good to have posts or discussions on dealing with this aspect of being "mental" -- such as what to do when someone is mean, or when feeling attacked, or having been aggressive with someone else.
Shar
> > I agree with Cam. I'd also like to point out that while many people do have problems keeping their emotional reactions within "normal" limits, many people on this board are also extremely sensitive and it doesn't take much for them to feel very hurt. It's of overriding importance that they feel that this board is a safe haven. It's my observation that after you've been around for awhile and managed to behave yourself most of the time, DR. bob seems to cut a little slack. Sometimes I think his trigger finger is rather quick, but mostly I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
>
> Mair
Posted by kiddo on June 15, 2001, at 2:18:51
In reply to Re: Being civil - my two-bits » Mair, posted by Shar on June 2, 2001, at 23:01:43
I'm tired so please overlook the grammar/spelling.
FWIW (For what it's worth-for those who don't know) I just wanted to give my opinion.
I read the boards often, yet post seldom because I'm one of those 'ultra sensitive' people that can get hurt very easy. I often hesitate for the fact that I may have something taken the wrong way, or I may take a response the wrong way.
In fact, I have cut and burned myself over such things. (not on this NG of course, but others-that was in the past though)
There are things in posts (which I've taken wrong lately myself) that, in my opinion, can be completely different than what they seem.
I may be having a really rotten day, respond to something less than civil, or take something out of context, insert my own emotions into a post that the author didn't mean at all.
I just think that Doc maintains his 'walk the chalk, or hit the sidewalk' attitude on being civil because he looks out for people that may see things like me, and has kept a pretty low 'civil war fatalities' rate because of it.
I take my privilege to post here as just that..... a privilege not a right, he doesn't make me use my real name, and he doesn't make it more difficult to be a part of the group than he could.
I would hope that I'd be 'called on the carpet' for anything that may hurt someone else. I've been hurt too bad and too many times to cause it to someone else.
Just my thoughts....
> You make a good point, about people here being sensitive and may feel hurt easily. The "PBC" or please-be-civil is always after the fact, when someone may have already gotten hurt. I wonder if it would be good to have posts or discussions on dealing with this aspect of being "mental" -- such as what to do when someone is mean, or when feeling attacked, or having been aggressive with someone else.
>
> Shar
>
>> > > I agree with Cam. I'd also like to point out that while many people do have problems keeping their emotional reactions within "normal" limits, many people on this board are also extremely sensitive and it doesn't take much for them to feel very hurt. It's of overriding importance that they feel that this board is a safe haven. It's my observation that after you've been around for awhile and managed to behave yourself most of the time, DR. bob seems to cut a little slack. Sometimes I think his trigger finger is rather quick, but mostly I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
> >
> > Mair
Posted by AMenz on June 16, 2001, at 0:25:27
In reply to Re: Being civil - my two-bits, posted by kiddo on June 15, 2001, at 2:18:51
I think the difficulty is in the medium. It is difficult to convey certain things in posts, humour, irony, etc. that makes certain comments in live conversation inoffensive. Yet the same comment can come across obnoxious in a post.
I know this has happened to me. In person I am pretty funny. Never comes across on posts, and in other forums I've said things that have sounded offensive without meaning. So don't feel too bad.
> I'm tired so please overlook the grammar/spelling.
>
> FWIW (For what it's worth-for those who don't know) I just wanted to give my opinion.
>
> I read the boards often, yet post seldom because I'm one of those 'ultra sensitive' people that can get hurt very easy. I often hesitate for the fact that I may have something taken the wrong way, or I may take a response the wrong way.
>
> In fact, I have cut and burned myself over such things. (not on this NG of course, but others-that was in the past though)
>
> There are things in posts (which I've taken wrong lately myself) that, in my opinion, can be completely different than what they seem.
>
> I may be having a really rotten day, respond to something less than civil, or take something out of context, insert my own emotions into a post that the author didn't mean at all.
>
> I just think that Doc maintains his 'walk the chalk, or hit the sidewalk' attitude on being civil because he looks out for people that may see things like me, and has kept a pretty low 'civil war fatalities' rate because of it.
>
> I take my privilege to post here as just that..... a privilege not a right, he doesn't make me use my real name, and he doesn't make it more difficult to be a part of the group than he could.
>
> I would hope that I'd be 'called on the carpet' for anything that may hurt someone else. I've been hurt too bad and too many times to cause it to someone else.
>
> Just my thoughts....
>
>
>
> > You make a good point, about people here being sensitive and may feel hurt easily. The "PBC" or please-be-civil is always after the fact, when someone may have already gotten hurt. I wonder if it would be good to have posts or discussions on dealing with this aspect of being "mental" -- such as what to do when someone is mean, or when feeling attacked, or having been aggressive with someone else.
> >
> > Shar
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > I agree with Cam. I'd also like to point out that while many people do have problems keeping their emotional reactions within "normal" limits, many people on this board are also extremely sensitive and it doesn't take much for them to feel very hurt. It's of overriding importance that they feel that this board is a safe haven. It's my observation that after you've been around for awhile and managed to behave yourself most of the time, DR. bob seems to cut a little slack. Sometimes I think his trigger finger is rather quick, but mostly I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
> > >
> > > Mair
This is the end of the thread.
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