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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jay2112 on March 13, 2022, at 13:55:58
My testosterone use seems to just be one disappointment after another. First, there were it's immediate/current effects, which have continued into 2 months of use. I seemed to get really, really bad anxiety, bordering on suspiciousness, extreme irritability, and severe agoraphobia. I talked to my pdoc, who confirmed that there have been co-relations between the above, testosterone use, and bipolar disorder, and other mental illness' including schizophrenia. (Especially for those with a pre-existing condition.) When I was about 46, I tried test again (after a low measurement), and I recall some of the above mental issues, especially making me feel like a very 'cold' person, who had a lot of hate.
Factor in, recent findings with test use and correlations to heart attacks and strokes, and prostate cancer.(Especially in older guys, like me.)
My internal instinct just say's "don't go there". At one time, it made me more confident, and I was almost as, umm, horny as my 17 year old self. But, there are some scientifically valid alternatives to try, so I might check them out.
Jay
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 13, 2022, at 14:02:19
In reply to Test- big disappointment, posted by Jay2112 on March 13, 2022, at 13:55:58
What was your level? Sometmes T goes low becuase not enough fat is consumed.
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 13, 2022, at 14:08:07
In reply to Re: Test- big disappointment, posted by Lamdage22 on March 13, 2022, at 14:02:19
Do you have fluctuations in your Testosterone levels due to route of administration? Your symptoms sound more like the "steroid" use of Testosterone and less like reference range.
Posted by Jay2112 on March 14, 2022, at 19:07:19
In reply to Re: Test- big disappointment, posted by Lamdage22 on March 13, 2022, at 14:08:07
> Do you have fluctuations in your Testosterone levels due to route of administration? Your symptoms sound more like the "steroid" use of Testosterone and less like reference range.
Yes, maybe...I am on the pill form, and might go on androgel or testim. Shots are *blah* also for me. I go UP and DOWN. My testosterone level was 7.2nmol/L. You can convert that on google.Normal is 8.4-28.8 nmol/L. So, a smaller dose of the gel may be much better.
Jay
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 15, 2022, at 1:35:31
In reply to Re: Test- big disappointment » Lamdage22, posted by Jay2112 on March 14, 2022, at 19:07:19
What is the pill called? I thought Testosterone wasn't bioavailable orally.
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 15, 2022, at 1:39:14
In reply to Re: Test- big disappointment, posted by Lamdage22 on March 15, 2022, at 1:35:31
I do hear on bodybuilding sites that fluctuations of testosterone levels cause side effects. So maybe go to your doctor with that information.
Posted by undopaminergic on March 15, 2022, at 10:35:12
In reply to Re: Test- big disappointment, posted by Lamdage22 on March 15, 2022, at 1:35:31
> What is the pill called? I thought Testosterone wasn't bioavailable orally.
>I think the main problem with oral androgens is that it's bad for the liver.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Christ_empowered on March 15, 2022, at 11:04:42
In reply to Test- big disappointment, posted by Jay2112 on March 13, 2022, at 13:55:58
I don't really know anything about the "bio-identical hormone replacement" trend/industry, but...
wow. It seems to be everywhere. Even in my zip code, which...tells me that its probably "a thing," as the kids say.
Could that be a safer, less toxic and troublesome alternative, perhaps?
I don't know about supplements/alternative health material specifically geared towards correcting hormone issues, but it seems to be "a thing," as well. Perhaps that could be an option?
Sorry this endeavor did not end well. At the same time, I have to say that I rather admire your level of insight and self-awareness, because you've drawn a line and decided to move on based on your own, personal risks vs benefits analysis.
OK. I hope things get better in your corner of the world.
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 15, 2022, at 13:03:58
In reply to Re: Test- big disappointment, posted by undopaminergic on March 15, 2022, at 10:35:12
> > What is the pill called? I thought Testosterone wasn't bioavailable orally.
> >
>
> I think the main problem with oral androgens is that it's bad for the liver.I think this is new: https://www.healio.com/news/endocrinology/20210409/oral-testosterone-safe-effective-in-new-2year-data
At the time when I considered Steroids, I was told that no formulation of Testosterone can be taken orally. I now think taking Steroids for leisure time is incredibly stupid.
TRT is not stupid if it is needed
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 15, 2022, at 21:57:52
In reply to Re: Test- big disappointment, posted by Lamdage22 on March 15, 2022, at 13:03:58
> > > What is the pill called? I thought Testosterone wasn't bioavailable orally.
> > >
> >
> > I think the main problem with oral androgens is that it's bad for the liver.
>
> I think this is new: https://www.healio.com/news/endocrinology/20210409/oral-testosterone-safe-effective-in-new-2year-data
>
> At the time when I considered Steroids, I was told that no formulation of Testosterone can be taken orally. I now think taking Steroids for leisure time is incredibly stupid.
>
> TRT is not stupid if it is neededLiver toxicity doesn't seem to be a problem with this application with T undecanoate. That is pretty cool. Oral Testsosterone. Back in the day they thought it isn't possible.
Posted by undopaminergic on March 16, 2022, at 9:42:53
In reply to Re: Test- big disappointment, posted by Lamdage22 on March 15, 2022, at 13:03:58
>
> At the time when I considered Steroids, I was told that no formulation of Testosterone can be taken orally. I now think taking Steroids for leisure time is incredibly stupid.
>I think for those who take androgens for anabolic purposes, the activity for which they do it is not just a recreational interest of little importance, but something that is a major part of their lives, for some even a passion.
> TRT is not stupid if it is needed
Maybe, but it's not worth the acne for me. I don't have that any more, but it was very bad in my late teens and early 20s. That probably means my TS is a lot lower now; I've never had it measured.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 16, 2022, at 9:47:01
In reply to Re: Test- big disappointment, posted by undopaminergic on March 16, 2022, at 9:42:53
> I think for those who take androgens for anabolic purposes, the activity for which they do it is not just a recreational interest of little importance, but something that is a major part of their lives, for some even a passion.It is still a recreational interest though wether important, a passion or whatever. I am passionate about it, too.
Posted by undopaminergic on March 16, 2022, at 9:59:19
In reply to Re: Test- big disappointment, posted by Lamdage22 on March 16, 2022, at 9:47:01
>
> > I think for those who take androgens for anabolic purposes, the activity for which they do it is not just a recreational interest of little importance, but something that is a major part of their lives, for some even a passion.
>
> It is still a recreational interest though wether important, a passion or whatever. I am passionate about it, too.
>Yes, but a passion is often more important than a profession.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 16, 2022, at 10:04:15
In reply to Re: Test- big disappointment, posted by undopaminergic on March 16, 2022, at 9:59:19
True. I think that you are either on steroids for life or you quit the sport after your first cycle though. You make so much progress alot of which you lose when you stop.
Posted by Jay2112 on March 18, 2022, at 11:10:42
In reply to Re: Test- big disappointment, posted by Lamdage22 on March 15, 2022, at 21:57:52
> > > > What is the pill called? I thought Testosterone wasn't bioavailable orally.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I think the main problem with oral androgens is that it's bad for the liver.
> >
> > I think this is new: https://www.healio.com/news/endocrinology/20210409/oral-testosterone-safe-effective-in-new-2year-data
> >
> > At the time when I considered Steroids, I was told that no formulation of Testosterone can be taken orally. I now think taking Steroids for leisure time is incredibly stupid.
> >
> > TRT is not stupid if it is needed
>
> Liver toxicity doesn't seem to be a problem with this application with T undecanoate. That is pretty cool. Oral Testsosterone. Back in the day they thought it isn't possible.Yeah, it was the undecanoate test. But, I also tried the gel....just weird, weird feelings, even my cognitive function is affected. It does, what I imagine to be, feel like how 'roids affect bodybuilders...but these are supposed to be the 'gentle' kind..ugg.. Just, yuck. Now I have a throat and ear infection that I think was possibly caused by all of that steroid use.
Now, I read that in men over 50, steroids increase PSA by quite a bit. And, I am a really hairy guy with male pattern baldness. So, I am thinking of trying chaste berry, and/or red clover, which have an estrogen effect and lower PSA in men. I really don't care much about sexual function anymore...I just want to chill, my psych meds are fine, and enjoy the rest of my life.
Jay
Posted by undopaminergic on March 19, 2022, at 11:12:45
In reply to Re: Test- big disappointment, posted by Jay2112 on March 18, 2022, at 11:10:42
> > > > > What is the pill called? I thought Testosterone wasn't bioavailable orally.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think the main problem with oral androgens is that it's bad for the liver.
> > >
> > > I think this is new: https://www.healio.com/news/endocrinology/20210409/oral-testosterone-safe-effective-in-new-2year-data
> > >
> > > At the time when I considered Steroids, I was told that no formulation of Testosterone can be taken orally. I now think taking Steroids for leisure time is incredibly stupid.
> > >
> > > TRT is not stupid if it is needed
> >
> > Liver toxicity doesn't seem to be a problem with this application with T undecanoate. That is pretty cool. Oral Testsosterone. Back in the day they thought it isn't possible.
>
> Yeah, it was the undecanoate test. But, I also tried the gel....just weird, weird feelings, even my cognitive function is affected. It does, what I imagine to be, feel like how 'roids affect bodybuilders...but these are supposed to be the 'gentle' kind..ugg.. Just, yuck. Now I have a throat and ear infection that I think was possibly caused by all of that steroid use.
>
> Now, I read that in men over 50, steroids increase PSA by quite a bit. And, I am a really hairy guy with male pattern baldness. So, I am thinking of trying chaste berry, and/or red clover, which have an estrogen effect and lower PSA in men. I really don't care much about sexual function anymore...I just want to chill, my psych meds are fine, and enjoy the rest of my life.
>
> JayHave you tried finasteride or dutasteride? They inhibit the synthesis of the most potent androgen, dihydrotestosterone, but increase testosterone and estradiol (the most potent natural estrogen). Through this action, they shrink the prostate and reduce androgenic hair loss.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Jay2112 on March 24, 2022, at 23:44:13
In reply to Re: Test- big disappointment, posted by undopaminergic on March 19, 2022, at 11:12:45
> Have you tried finasteride or dutasteride? They inhibit the synthesis of the most potent androgen, dihydrotestosterone, but increase testosterone and estradiol (the most potent natural estrogen). Through this action, they shrink the prostate and reduce androgenic hair loss.
>
> -undopaminergic
>No. but I have been reading many clinical studies, and case studies, that say those meds have *horrid* side effects in men. They are called 5 alpha reductase inhibitors, and apparently greatly affect neurosteroids, in particular allopregnanolone.... 5ARs greatly reduce allopregnanolone, which downregulates GABA-A receptors. This in turn causes anxiety and depression, which I absolutely don't need! lol.
But, thanks, anyways. :)
Jay
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 25, 2022, at 1:25:03
In reply to Re: Test- big disappointment » undopaminergic, posted by Jay2112 on March 24, 2022, at 23:44:13
>
> > Have you tried finasteride or dutasteride? They inhibit the synthesis of the most potent androgen, dihydrotestosterone, but increase testosterone and estradiol (the most potent natural estrogen). Through this action, they shrink the prostate and reduce androgenic hair loss.
> >
> > -undopaminergic
> >
>
> No. but I have been reading many clinical studies, and case studies, that say those meds have *horrid* side effects in men.Including impotence. Thats what I heard, too.
This is the end of the thread.
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