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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by sigismund on October 1, 2020, at 14:46:36
In reply to Re: BuSpar for social anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 1, 2020, at 4:58:53
There is some Zen saying to the effect that our suffering consists of (or is aggravated by?) thinking that there is a way out.
Posted by sigismund on October 1, 2020, at 14:49:35
In reply to Re: BuSpar for social anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 1, 2020, at 9:06:21
Is your anxiety telling you something you need to know?
Throwing yourself into anxiety producing situations is not always a good idea.
Posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2020, at 20:28:44
In reply to Re: BuSpar for social anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 1, 2020, at 14:09:27
Baby steps start with maybe 15minutes somewhere that you fear and take someone you trust with you for support. Phillipa
Posted by Christ_empowered on October 1, 2020, at 21:36:30
In reply to Re: BuSpar for social anxiety? » Lamdage22, posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2020, at 20:28:44
Not trying to play doctor, here, but...
Is there any way your treatment people could try lowering the neuroleptic dosage for you? Heavy dopamine blockade can result in more anxiety, social withdrawal, and frontal lobe syndrome. I just think maybe that would be worth discussing 1st, instead of adding to the mix.
Posted by undopaminergic on October 2, 2020, at 3:08:53
In reply to Re: BuSpar for social anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 1, 2020, at 14:09:27
> I already lift weights, but it is not enough.
I do that too as of the recent few months. Alas, my progress has stagnated -- do you have any ideas?
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 2, 2020, at 3:20:23
In reply to Re: BuSpar for social anxiety?, posted by undopaminergic on October 2, 2020, at 3:08:53
I can tell you what I like to do (successfully). For beginners, this plan is good: 3 sets of 8-12 reps:
Day 1:
Squats
Benchpress
Bent over RowDay 2:
Deadlifts
Shoulder Press
Pull-UpsTrain 3 times a week alternating between Day 1 and Day 2. Increase the weight by 5 pounds regularly (every time you can do 3 sets of your target rep range. This is the most time efficient thing you can do. You need to get the technique straight though. Do you know how to do these exercises?
Then you need to consume 0.85g of Protein for every pound you weigh.
I used to be really good before my mental health crisis. Now I am back to beginner level. But I think I can go back to being good by staying consistent.
> > I already lift weights, but it is not enough.
>
> I do that too as of the recent few months. Alas, my progress has stagnated -- do you have any ideas?
>
> -undopaminergic
>
Posted by undopaminergic on October 2, 2020, at 6:34:28
In reply to Re: BuSpar for social anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 2, 2020, at 3:20:23
> I can tell you what I like to do (successfully). For beginners, this plan is good: 3 sets of 8-12 reps:
>
> Day 1:
> Squats
> Benchpress
> Bent over Row
>
> Day 2:
> Deadlifts
> Shoulder Press
> Pull-Ups
>
> Train 3 times a week alternating between Day 1 and Day 2. Increase the weight by 5 pounds regularly (every time you can do 3 sets of your target rep range. This is the most time efficient thing you can do. You need to get the technique straight though. Do you know how to do these exercises?
>Some of them, sort of. I sometimes do what I call legpush/press, straightening my legs and pushing a "platform" away with my feet, so it is a bit like squatting, but not the whole way. However, I can already lift the max load (150 kg) in this exercise, and over 40 reps, so I've stopped bothering with this. I walk, sometimes up to about 3 hours a day, but lately about 1--1.5 hours a day. I may consider taking up jogging/running, but I don't like to get sweaty.
I use the same machine to do "toepush", straightening my ankles as if standing on my toes. I can do at least 130 kg on this, and about 30 reps, so I guess I should increase the load.
I do benchpress, but only with 20 kg, about 20 reps. I am cautious with this exercise, because it may turn out I can't lift one more (to hang up the weight bar) and then I need assistance. I do pushups to exercise about the same muscles, and I can do about 20 reps. This is in contrast to 80+ reps in my late teens!
I do pullups, about 10 reps. Then I also do pulldowns, about 10 reps with a 65 kg load. I've been at 65 kg for a long time now, which is why I feel I have stagnated. I do "partial" pulldowns when I can't do more full ones, so I might do 10/30 reps as an example (meaning first 10 full ones and then 20 partial ones).
I also sometimes do dumbbells in a way so as the exercise the biceps. Approximately, I sit down and put my elbow on my knee or thigh and bend the arm so as to lift the weight up near my head. I can do about 20 reps per arm.
I don't know what shoulder press or bent over row is.
I train about 3 times a week. I should do the pushups more often because these do not require any machines, but I'm too lazy...
> Then you need to consume 0.85g of Protein for every pound you weigh.
>I take a few heaped table spoons of a protein powder after training. I do this also for the benefit of having raw material for neurotransmitters, especially the 3 monoamines.
> I used to be really good before my mental health crisis. Now I am back to beginner level. But I think I can go back to being good by staying consistent.
>For me, this is the first period in life when I'm training consistently.
-undopaminergic
> > > I already lift weights, but it is not enough.
> >
> > I do that too as of the recent few months. Alas, my progress has stagnated -- do you have any ideas?
> >
> > -undopaminergic
> >
>
>
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 2, 2020, at 8:17:05
In reply to Re: BuSpar for social anxiety?, posted by undopaminergic on October 2, 2020, at 6:34:28
Haha, yeah you are doing more than me in terms of endurance then! Hmm. I understand, sticky and stuff, but that shouldn't keep you from working out. With weightlifting, you will get sweaty if you want to improve.
> I walk, sometimes up to about 3 hours a day, but lately about 1--1.5 hours a day. I may consider taking up jogging/running, but I don't like to get sweaty.
I stopped working out my calves. Its not that important, especially not at the beginning. Deadlifts hit calves a bit. too. It is mostly genes with calves anyway. I would describe myself as slightly above average, which means not much growth will take place there, no matter how hard I hit them!
> I use the same machine to do "toepush", straightening my ankles as if standing on my toes. I can do at least 130 kg on this, and about 30 reps, so I guess I should increase the load.
Right, until you get the technique right, you shouldn't go heavy with any of the exercises that I mentioned. Need to know what you are doing and feel comfortable with it. These are all "compound" exercises. They hit many muscles at once. That is why it can pay off to learn and use them.
Doesn't your gym have safety bars? If you don't use clamps for the weights you can let the plates fall off if you lower one side of the bar, the other side will come down then, too.
> I do benchpress, but only with 20 kg, about 20 reps. I am cautious with this exercise, because it may turn out I can't lift one more (to hang up the weight bar) and then I need assistance. I do pushups to exercise about the same muscles, and I can do about 20 reps. This is in contrast to 80+ reps in my late teens!
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 2, 2020, at 8:18:37
In reply to Re: BuSpar for social anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 2, 2020, at 8:17:05
Its kind of more natural to train muscles in compound, because that is how they are used in sports and every day tasks.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 2, 2020, at 8:25:23
In reply to Re: BuSpar for social anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 2, 2020, at 8:18:37
But any workout is better than no workout as long as you don't hurt yourself. Its so hard to do for those that need it the most.
Posted by undopaminergic on October 2, 2020, at 9:15:20
In reply to Re: BuSpar for social anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 2, 2020, at 8:25:23
> But any workout is better than no workout as long as you don't hurt yourself. Its so hard to do for those that need it the most.
>Yes. I had to come a long way psychically, before I was even willing to try! It was not until after I started trimipramine, but I don't know to what degree there is a causal connection.
-undopaminergic
Posted by undopaminergic on October 2, 2020, at 9:22:23
In reply to Re: BuSpar for social anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 2, 2020, at 8:17:05
> Haha, yeah you are doing more than me in terms of endurance then!
You mean walking?
> Hmm. I understand, sticky and stuff, but that shouldn't keep you from working out. With weightlifting, you will get sweaty if you want to improve.
>I do it as it comes naturally. I need the rest in between exercises, to allow my strength to recover. Even with rest in between, usually I can do the most reps the first time through.
> Doesn't your gym have safety bars? If you don't use clamps for the weights you can let the plates fall off if you lower one side of the bar, the other side will come down then, too.
>I kind of figured that technique out, but I haven't got a chance to use it yet.
I don't know what safety bars are.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 2, 2020, at 10:22:32
In reply to Re: BuSpar for social anxiety?, posted by undopaminergic on October 2, 2020, at 9:22:23
https://jk-sportvertrieb.de/atx-power-rack-prx-720-hoehe-215-cm
The horizontal bars there. You can adjust them. I havent been able to exercise for years. For me, not a med change brought this change but changing nutrition adding supplements.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 2, 2020, at 10:23:55
In reply to Re: BuSpar for social anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 2, 2020, at 10:22:32
I mean I wasnt able to exercise. Now I am and not because of changes to meds.
Posted by linkadge on October 2, 2020, at 16:43:05
In reply to Re: BuSpar for social anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 2, 2020, at 10:23:55
I completely disagree with the notion that anxiety relief needs to be addictive. Healthy people are neither chronically depressed nor anxious. Mentally healthy people also tend to live longer than those with chronic depression or anxiety. Chronic anxiety (in the absence of a real threat) is not healthy for an organism. Homeostasis is not congruent with chronic anxiety. A number of supplements I take (i.e. magnesium, niacin, CBD, chamomile etc.) help me to relieve anxiety. They have worked long term for me and I haven't needed to ramp up doses simply to get the same effect. Low dose effexor also helps me, and I have not had to increase the dose.
So, I would disagree with the notion that anything that relives anxiety is addictive and stops working.
Now if the med makes you high, and that high is simply masking anxiety, then yes you will grow tolerant to that because a high is also not homeostasis.
Linkadge
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 3, 2020, at 5:12:27
In reply to Re: Anxiolysis does not need to be addictive, posted by linkadge on October 2, 2020, at 16:43:05
How does Chamomille feel? It takes the edge off? Is there anything to look for when buying a supplement? I don't want to go through the trouble of making tea.
Posted by linkadge on October 3, 2020, at 7:19:34
In reply to Re: Anxiolysis does not need to be addictive, posted by Lamdage22 on October 3, 2020, at 5:12:27
I just make the tea with organic chamomile. I've never taken it in capsule form. It helps. Nothing (by itself) provides me with 100% relief. However, my 'stack' works quite well.
Linkadge
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 3, 2020, at 8:35:03
In reply to Re: Anxiolysis does not need to be addictive » Lamdage22, posted by linkadge on October 3, 2020, at 7:19:34
Same here, you have to take what you can get
> Nothing (by itself) provides me with 100% relief. However, my 'stack' works quite well.
>
> Linkadge
Posted by undopaminergic on October 5, 2020, at 0:30:17
In reply to Re: Anxiolysis does not need to be addictive, posted by linkadge on October 2, 2020, at 16:43:05
> I completely disagree with the notion that anxiety relief needs to be addictive. Healthy people are neither chronically depressed nor anxious.
>The situation is quite different after you have been depressed or anxious for a long time. Maybe addiction is the wrong term, but you can easily get dependent on remedies (including drugs) that make you feel better.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 5, 2020, at 6:26:26
In reply to Re: Anxiolysis does not need to be addictive, posted by undopaminergic on October 5, 2020, at 0:30:17
The way I see it is that dependence and addiction need to be seperated. For example I am dependent on Neuroleptics, without them I cannot function at all. However I don't feel the urge to take more and the effect is stable. In that way there is no tolerance buildup. Now addiction is a whole different thing. There is the urge to take more and there is tolerance, so you need more for the same effect which you crave.
I wonder where Aloradine would fit in.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 5, 2020, at 6:49:19
In reply to Re: Anxiolysis does not need to be addictive, posted by Lamdage22 on October 5, 2020, at 6:26:26
Addictive drugs mask the problem and replace it with being high, dependence inducing drugs make you normal and then you depend on them for being normal. I dont think you can get addicted to being normal.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 5, 2020, at 6:55:13
In reply to Re: Anxiolysis does not need to be addictive, posted by Lamdage22 on October 5, 2020, at 6:49:19
These are my thoughts anyway. Some drugs are a bit of both and there is a seamless transition.
Posted by undopaminergic on October 6, 2020, at 0:27:25
In reply to Re: Anxiolysis does not need to be addictive, posted by Lamdage22 on October 5, 2020, at 6:26:26
> The way I see it is that dependence and addiction need to be seperated. For example I am dependent on Neuroleptics, without them I cannot function at all. However I don't feel the urge to take more and the effect is stable. In that way there is no tolerance buildup. Now addiction is a whole different thing. There is the urge to take more and there is tolerance, so you need more for the same effect which you crave.
>Tolerance is a separate, independent matter, which can feature in dependence too. I think the essential point in addiction is to take the drug compulsively in spite of adverse consequences (eg. for body or economy) and/or despite a lack of reward.
Posted by undopaminergic on October 6, 2020, at 0:31:23
In reply to Re: Anxiolysis does not need to be addictive, posted by Lamdage22 on October 5, 2020, at 6:49:19
> Addictive drugs mask the problem and replace it with being high, dependence inducing drugs make you normal and then you depend on them for being normal. I dont think you can get addicted to being normal.
>Maybe not, but you easily get attached to it and begin take it for granted. And then when you don't have it (eg. if you go back to being depressed), you crave it.
-undopaminergic
Posted by linkadge on October 8, 2020, at 16:33:14
In reply to Re: Anxiolysis does not need to be addictive, posted by undopaminergic on October 5, 2020, at 0:30:17
>The situation is quite different after you have >been depressed or anxious for a long time. Maybe >addiction is the wrong term, but you can easily >get dependent on remedies (including drugs) that >make you feel better.
Right, but you have to separate something that selectively addresses the root problem, vs something that just activates your reward system and makes you temporarily forget about your anxiety.
Linkadge
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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