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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bleauberry on June 27, 2018, at 6:38:14
My personal experience with SJW is that when/if it kicks in - for me that was in the 3-5 week range - the anti-depressive effect didn't have the numbing effect of SSRIs, but was more natural and open with a general feeling of contentment and re-engagement in life.
The other thing I have learned from personal experience (years ago) is that you can generate some serious Herxheimer reactions with it. A Herx (for short) is a die-off reaction of pathogenic microbes that causes a systemic inflammation response resulting in depression, anxiety, pain and fatigue. This is maybe one of the most accurate ways to diagnose a hidden case of Lyme - see if you can generate a Herx - because a healthy person won't be able to - a Lyme person will generate a Herx very easily.
Studies indicate that SJW has enough power as an antibiotic, anti fungal, and especially antiviral, to deal with prescription-resistant strains. I didn't know years ago it was a Herx - I thought SJW was just making me worse - but then when it kicked in it was pretty amazing. No prescription ever did that in all the years that followed. Wouldn't you know it, a psychiatrist got pissed at me for using SJW, actually yelled at me and lectured me, forced me to stop SJW, not happy I was doing much better, and then I crashed badly after that, and crashed even worse when that doc put me on Serzone instead. What a joke. Sick joke.
I'm thinking of maybe re-visiting SJW in terms of Lyme rather than in terms of mood. It is a powerful anti-microbial, anti-inflammatory, anti-pain, anti-cancer, neuroprotective, with mood lifting and anti-anxiety properties.
Efficacy of Hypericum extract WS(®) 5570 compared with paroxetine in patients with a moderate major depressive episode - a subgroup analysis.
Seifritz E1, Hatzinger M2, Holsboer-Trachsler E3.
Author information
Abstract
OBJECTIVES:
efficacy and tolerability of WS(®) 5570 for the treatment of acute mild-to-moderate depression, has been demonstrated in various studies. Here, we present a subgroup analysis of a double blind, randomised trial to compare the therapeutic efficacy of WS(®) 5570 with paroxetine in patients suffering from a major depressive episode with moderate symptom intensity.
METHODS:
moderate depression was defined by a baseline Hamilton Depression Rating Scale (HAM-D) total score between 22 and 25. Patients received, after a single blind placebo run-in phase of 3-7 d, either 3 × 300 mg/d WS(®) 5570 or 20 mg/d paroxetine for six weeks. The change of the HAM-D total score was used to describe the efficacy of WS(®) 5570 compared with paroxetine in the subgroup of patients with moderate depression.
RESULTS:
the reductions of the HAM-D total score were significantly more pronounced in patients treated with 3 × 300 mg/d WS(®) 5570 compared to 20 mg/d paroxetine.
CONCLUSIONS:
patients treated with WS(®) 5570 not only showed a reduction in depression severity score but also yielded greater response and remission rates compared with patients treated with paroxetine. Keypoints Various studies showed the efficacy and tolerability of WS(®) 5570 for the treatment of acute mild-to-moderate depression. Beneficial effects of WS(®) 5570 have been also shown in patients with moderate-to-severe depression. In this study reductions of the HAM-D total score were significantly more pronounced in patients with moderate depression treated with WS(®) 5570 compared with paroxetine. Patients treated with WS(®) 5570 not only showed a reduction in depression severity score but also yielded greater response and remission rates compared with patients treated with paroxetine.
Posted by linkadge on June 27, 2018, at 16:26:36
In reply to Paxil not as good as St Johns Wort in this study, posted by bleauberry on June 27, 2018, at 6:38:14
I agree. SJW is good. It has likely been unfairly targeted by the pharmaceutical industry.
Linkadge
Posted by Christ_empowered on June 27, 2018, at 17:29:49
In reply to Re: Paxil not as good as St Johns Wort in this study, posted by linkadge on June 27, 2018, at 16:26:36
I've considered SJW. ssri and ssnri drugs make me very apathetic and oddly...moody, too. Not good. my limited experience with tca drugs has been...not so great, although they do help agitated depression.
are there any currently available extracts I can actually trust? I'm big on vitamins, but I"m wary of herbals. what about drug-drug interactions?
Thanks. :-)
Posted by bleauberry on June 28, 2018, at 14:17:00
In reply to Re: Paxil not as good as St Johns Wort in this study, posted by Christ_empowered on June 27, 2018, at 17:29:49
> I've considered SJW. ssri and ssnri drugs make me very apathetic and oddly...moody, too. Not good. my limited experience with tca drugs has been...not so great, although they do help agitated depression.
Yeah all meds did that to me but SJW didn't.
>
> are there any currently available extracts I can actually trust? I'm big on vitamins, but I"m wary of herbals. what about drug-drug interactions?I don't know. There is a professional brand used in clinical studies available on the market. But honestly, the best response I ever had was from a cheap bottle I bought at Walmart or Rite Aid. It was standardized but it was a cheap brand. I actually had more difficulty with the more expensive brands.
I think the thing with SJW is it needs time. The usual 6-8 week thing is no good. Herbs have dozens of chemicals and dozens of mechanisms - SJW does reuptake inhibition, mild MAOI action, anti-inflamatoruy, anti-fungal, anti-viral, anti-biotic, anti-pain, wound healer, burn healer, and a lot more. Herbs tend to work gradually and build up over time. For example if there was no response at 6 weeks, there could be remission at 12 weeks. You gotta stick with it and at some point maybe try a different brand if things aren't going as planned.
As a Lymie I had great difficulty getting started on SJW. Very sensitive. I had to start with half a pill, and over several weeks worked my way to 3 pills, and even then I felt bad, headaches, nervous, more depressed. But I somehow hung in there. And then whammo one day in the 8 week area I just popped into feeling totally normal almost overnight.
With the benefit of hindsight I can see clearly that feeling more depressed in early treatment, and feeling the sensitivity side effects, that was Herxheimer reaction (Lyme die-off). My best guess is that as soon as the population levels of lyme bacteria, viruses or fungi were lowered enough by SJW, it was at that point I felt good.
My personal opinion is that it is not the reuptake or the maoi that works against depression, but rather, all the other stuff SJW does - antimicrobial , anti-inflammatory, pro-neuroprotection, pro-healing of damaged nerves.
Drug-herb interactions can happen because SJW inhibits the CYP3A4 liver enzyme. Any med which is metabolized by that enzyme will likely have increased blood levels in the presence of SJW.
>
> Thanks. :-)
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