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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on April 9, 2018, at 22:12:40
Any LDN success stories for depression?
(low-dose naltrexone)
Thanks.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on April 10, 2018, at 1:39:14
In reply to LDN Success - Anyone?, posted by SLS on April 9, 2018, at 22:12:40
Im sorry Scott,
i cant say anything because i quit
Posted by Hugh on April 10, 2018, at 15:15:29
In reply to LDN Success - Anyone?, posted by SLS on April 9, 2018, at 22:12:40
I've been taking LDN off and on for ten years. As an antidepressant, I find it mildly effective.
Most people take between 2 and 4.5 mg. But doses of naltrexone far lower than this can be helpful for those taking opioids. Ultra-low-dose naltrexone (0.85 ng/kg) helps to prevent tolerance, dependence and addiction to opioids.
http://paintrials.com/publications/Capasso8.pdf
So a person who weighs 75 kilograms (165 pounds) would take only 63.75 nanograms of naltrexone with his opioid. 63.75 nanograms equals 0.06375 microgram.
Posted by Hugh on April 12, 2018, at 13:18:25
In reply to Re: LDN Success - Anyone?, posted by Hugh on April 10, 2018, at 15:15:29
If low-dose naltrexone doesn't have the desired effect on you, it might be worth your while to try an even lower dose of it. If that doesn't help, then go even lower. In fact, the lower the dose of naltrexone, the more effective it might be. The following quote is from
"Cotreatment with ultra-low-dose naltrexone at 16.7, 20, or 25 ng/kg, but not at 10 or 200 ng/kg, induced a significant CPP after this 2-h delay. This finding implies that, whereas the rewarding effects of morphine have dissipated by 120 min postinjection, ultra-low-dose naltrexone may extend this effect."
In other words, an extremely low dose of naltrexone enhanced the effects of morphine, and prevented tolerance to it from developing. And it prevented dependence and addiction from developing. A higher, but still tiny, dose of naltrexone didn't have these beneficial effects.
Even if you're not taking opioids, you might benefit from taking ultra-low-dose naltrexone, since we all have naturally occurring opioids -- endorphins. An extremely low dose of naltrexone, taken every day, might improve your brain's response to your naturally occurring endorphins.
So if you aren't helped by 1.5 to 4.5 milligrams of naltrexone, try lowering your dose to micrograms. If that doesn't help, lower your dose to nanograms. If that doesn't help, lower it to picograms. Other than the naltrexone, all you need is distilled water to dilute it with and a calculator.
Naltrexone is water-soluble, so dissolve a 50 mg tablet in 50 ml of distilled water and use a medicine dropper to measure the dose. If refrigerated, liquid low-dose naltrexone will keep for several weeks.
Posted by bleauberry on April 13, 2018, at 8:31:03
In reply to LDN Success - Anyone?, posted by SLS on April 9, 2018, at 22:12:40
I had pseudo-success with it. I have read anecdotal stories of success stories and failures.
The science behind it is fascinating. I think there is a lot there that we don't know. Great potential.
I took it for lyme not for depression - but at about 30 days my depression was improving - I was just too unstable at the time and couldn't hang in there. It requires time and patience. But I was relying on Vicadin once or twice a week to give me the stepping stone, parachute, or life preserver, to get me to to the next day or three. Vicadin obviously messed up the whole LDN approach. I was just too unstable at the time to manage it.
I recall the manner in which my depression was improving at that time. It was different than antidepressants. It was more of a return-to-hobbies kind of a thing, return to interest-in-things, interest in talking with people, comfortable in a crowd, a lessened feeling of dread, a greater feeling of peace. There was none of the numbing effect at all. It felt more natural than chemical.
I remember I was so sensitive I did about half of the LDN dose and even that seemed a bit much!
Personally I think there is good potential with this treatment for a wide variety of diseases and syndromes. I think because it is unconventional and takes time to work that it doesn't get the fair attention it should get.
The cost of getting a few months supply from a compounding pharmacy isn't too expensive so I think anyone looking to try a different chapter should take a look at it.
I have a hypothesis of how it works from my perspective of infection/psychiatry:
Blocking the opioid receptors briefly during sleep causes the feedback loops to release more natural opioid substances. Over weeks the total concentration of natural opioids accumulates and rises.
Meanwhile, as assumed infection is sending debris to the brain mood receptors - poop, pee, enzymes, dead body parts - toxins are hitting the opioid receptors and dopamine receptors. According to some studies I saw at PubMed, these infection by-product toxins have strong affinity for our brain receptors. They crowd out our feel-good chemicals. As LDN increases natural opioids, the increased levels compete with the debris and kick some of that debris out. The patient feels better.
I came up with this hypothesis because of my response to Vicadin. When I was at my worst during active infection or during Herx (pretty much the same thing either way), I took 1 1/2 Vicadin pills for relief and they totally cured me for a few hours. My reasoning was that the affinity of Vicadin for mood receptors is stronger than the affinity of infectious debris or endotoxins. As Vicadin kicked the debris out, I felt better fast.
But Vicadin makes you feel good anyway, right? Well, no, not with me. I have taken Vicadin when I did not have much of an active infection or Herx. It feels like a different drug. If I don't need it, it makes me feel depressed, slow, groggy, and I can't wait for it to wear off! But when infected o r in a Herx, the opposite reaction happens, and it feels good instead. Actually 'normal' is a better word than 'good'. Vicadin made me feel normal - not high, not drugged.
I think LDN does the same thing. But slower and more enduring.
LDN impacts the immune system in a big way, a positive way, and helps to balance a lot of systems which are out of balance.
I do not know of anyone, personally, who has taken LDN. It's just not a well known tactic. I wish it was.
> Any LDN success stories for depression?
>
> (low-dose naltrexone)
>
> Thanks.
>
> :-)
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on April 13, 2018, at 13:48:46
In reply to Re: LDN Success - Anyone?, posted by Hugh on April 12, 2018, at 13:18:25
Thanks, Hugh. That was very helpful.
- Scott
> If low-dose naltrexone doesn't have the desired effect on you, it might be worth your while to try an even lower dose of it. If that doesn't help, then go even lower. In fact, the lower the dose of naltrexone, the more effective it might be. The following quote is from
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/226113151_Ultra-Low-Dose_Naltrexone_Decreases_Dependence_and_Addictive_Properties_of_Opioids
>
> "Cotreatment with ultra-low-dose naltrexone at 16.7, 20, or 25 ng/kg, but not at 10 or 200 ng/kg, induced a significant CPP after this 2-h delay. This finding implies that, whereas the rewarding effects of morphine have dissipated by 120 min postinjection, ultra-low-dose naltrexone may extend this effect."
>
> In other words, an extremely low dose of naltrexone enhanced the effects of morphine, and prevented tolerance to it from developing. And it prevented dependence and addiction from developing. A higher, but still tiny, dose of naltrexone didn't have these beneficial effects.
>
> Even if you're not taking opioids, you might benefit from taking ultra-low-dose naltrexone, since we all have naturally occurring opioids -- endorphins. An extremely low dose of naltrexone, taken every day, might improve your brain's response to your naturally occurring endorphins.
>
> So if you aren't helped by 1.5 to 4.5 milligrams of naltrexone, try lowering your dose to micrograms. If that doesn't help, lower your dose to nanograms. If that doesn't help, lower it to picograms. Other than the naltrexone, all you need is distilled water to dilute it with and a calculator.
>
> Naltrexone is water-soluble, so dissolve a 50 mg tablet in 50 ml of distilled water and use a medicine dropper to measure the dose. If refrigerated, liquid low-dose naltrexone will keep for several weeks.
Posted by SLS on April 14, 2018, at 5:57:03
In reply to Re: LDN Success - Anyone? » SLS, posted by bleauberry on April 13, 2018, at 8:31:03
Hi, Bleauberry.
I apologize. I thought I had posted a note of gratitude earlier. I guess I forgot to click on the appropriate confirm button.
Thank you for your input. I appreciate the time you take to post things.
- Scott
-----------------------------------------------------------
> I had pseudo-success with it. I have read anecdotal stories of success stories and failures.
>
> The science behind it is fascinating. I think there is a lot there that we don't know. Great potential.
>
> I took it for lyme not for depression - but at about 30 days my depression was improving - I was just too unstable at the time and couldn't hang in there. It requires time and patience. But I was relying on Vicadin once or twice a week to give me the stepping stone, parachute, or life preserver, to get me to to the next day or three. Vicadin obviously messed up the whole LDN approach. I was just too unstable at the time to manage it.
>
> I recall the manner in which my depression was improving at that time. It was different than antidepressants. It was more of a return-to-hobbies kind of a thing, return to interest-in-things, interest in talking with people, comfortable in a crowd, a lessened feeling of dread, a greater feeling of peace. There was none of the numbing effect at all. It felt more natural than chemical.
>
> I remember I was so sensitive I did about half of the LDN dose and even that seemed a bit much!
>
> Personally I think there is good potential with this treatment for a wide variety of diseases and syndromes. I think because it is unconventional and takes time to work that it doesn't get the fair attention it should get.
>
> The cost of getting a few months supply from a compounding pharmacy isn't too expensive so I think anyone looking to try a different chapter should take a look at it.
>
> I have a hypothesis of how it works from my perspective of infection/psychiatry:
>
> Blocking the opioid receptors briefly during sleep causes the feedback loops to release more natural opioid substances. Over weeks the total concentration of natural opioids accumulates and rises.
>
> Meanwhile, as assumed infection is sending debris to the brain mood receptors - poop, pee, enzymes, dead body parts - toxins are hitting the opioid receptors and dopamine receptors. According to some studies I saw at PubMed, these infection by-product toxins have strong affinity for our brain receptors. They crowd out our feel-good chemicals. As LDN increases natural opioids, the increased levels compete with the debris and kick some of that debris out. The patient feels better.
>
> I came up with this hypothesis because of my response to Vicadin. When I was at my worst during active infection or during Herx (pretty much the same thing either way), I took 1 1/2 Vicadin pills for relief and they totally cured me for a few hours. My reasoning was that the affinity of Vicadin for mood receptors is stronger than the affinity of infectious debris or endotoxins. As Vicadin kicked the debris out, I felt better fast.
>
> But Vicadin makes you feel good anyway, right? Well, no, not with me. I have taken Vicadin when I did not have much of an active infection or Herx. It feels like a different drug. If I don't need it, it makes me feel depressed, slow, groggy, and I can't wait for it to wear off! But when infected o r in a Herx, the opposite reaction happens, and it feels good instead. Actually 'normal' is a better word than 'good'. Vicadin made me feel normal - not high, not drugged.
>
> I think LDN does the same thing. But slower and more enduring.
>
> LDN impacts the immune system in a big way, a positive way, and helps to balance a lot of systems which are out of balance.
>
> I do not know of anyone, personally, who has taken LDN. It's just not a well known tactic. I wish it was.
>
> > Any LDN success stories for depression?
> >
> > (low-dose naltrexone)
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > :-)
> >
> >
> > - Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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