![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by regisx on July 14, 2016, at 18:00:28
Anyone here who knows something about this?
I already heard that depression can cause brain atrophy. But I wonder how does it do this?
Is it caused by neurodegenerative processes?
If yes, what's the key factor here? I know that glutamate in excess destroys brain cells but I don't know if glutamate is the only risk factor or if there are other things, too.If glutamate is what causes the atrophy then you "only" needed to take a drug which protects against excessive glutamate.
I wonder if it wouldn't be wise in general to take a drug which protects against glutamate when you've got chronic depression or stress.
Posted by jonhed on July 15, 2016, at 6:12:03
In reply to Brain atrophy caused by depression?, posted by regisx on July 14, 2016, at 18:00:28
That is one of the many reasons that my pdoc put me on memantine so fast and gave me own responsibility of how high i want to go with the dose.
She says that it will help me build up my brain and repair the damage that all the stress and traumatic events i've been through has caused, including my 12 year long amphetamine and heroin abuse.
I think it's wise to take a weak nmda/glutamat antagonist. cause the strong antagonists make more damage and causes glutamate ecotoxicity.
But memantine is like an enhanced magnesium that easily crosses the BBB, so yeah, i will highly recommend it and it does not have any serious side effects.
I promise that, no serious. Side effects it has, but no dangerous. You know the difference.It can't make things worse so to speak so why not eat it to prevent things + i feel a lot clearer in my head and for the first time in my life i can work (i'm 26 years old an have never had av work due to my high stress liability), now i work in a store 28 hours a week without getting that extreme stress feeling. (hate to say things in english sometimes, cause it would sound a lot better in swedish lol)
You get the point i guess.
Try it, you'll like it :-)
Posted by jonhed on July 15, 2016, at 6:14:58
In reply to Re: Brain atrophy caused by depression?, posted by jonhed on July 15, 2016, at 6:12:03
And i'm impressed about your knowledge about glutamate.
I haven't seen you around so welcome if you're new, or else, welcome back :-)
Nice to have you here!
Posted by linkadge on July 15, 2016, at 20:29:07
In reply to Re: Brain atrophy caused by depression?, posted by jonhed on July 15, 2016, at 6:14:58
I don't think it's glutamate only.
There is some evidence of a decline in nerve growth factors (BDNF, NGF, NT3, BLC-2 etc). This would be seen to reduce overall brain connectivity and increase susceptibility to natural insults.
Depression is often associated with poor diet too. Lack of proper nutrition could reduce connectivity and make existing connections susceptible to damage. If you're really concerned, I would attack it from multiple fronts
- effective medications
- nutrition / supplements
- exercise
- mental stimulation (music, reading, social interaction etc).Linkadge
Posted by jonhed on July 16, 2016, at 8:31:00
In reply to Re: Brain atrophy caused by depression?, posted by linkadge on July 15, 2016, at 20:29:07
Absolutely, there is not just one side of it.
But the medication could be memantine for instance with all the other things, cause memantine is proven to repair neurons, that's what i mean :-)
Posted by Ruuudy on July 17, 2016, at 10:58:34
In reply to Re: Brain atrophy caused by depression?, posted by linkadge on July 15, 2016, at 20:29:07
> Depression is often associated with poor diet too. Lack of proper nutrition could reduce connectivity and make existing connections susceptible to damage. If you're really concerned, I would attack it from multiple fronts
>
> - effective medications
> - nutrition / supplements
> - exercise
> - mental stimulation (music, reading, social interaction etc).
>
> LinkadgeLinkadge,
How much of a contributing factore do you think a poor diet plays into chronic depression? Though I'm pretty active & in decent shape, I have perhaps the worst diet & eating habits of anyone on the planet.
I am heading to the store to pick up a couple of supplements (multi-vitamin & krill oil) to see if I reap any benefits.Rudy
Posted by jonhed on July 17, 2016, at 18:04:56
In reply to Re: Brain atrophy caused by depression?, posted by Ruuudy on July 17, 2016, at 10:58:34
I know you weren't asking me but i feel a big difference since i started drinking cod liver oil that contains 0.8g EPA and 1.2g DHA and a total 2.4g omega 3, with the rest 0.4g are just cod liver oil and pure omega 3.
The best is if the ratio is 3:1 in EPA/DHA, that is proven to be antidepressant.
But it's expensive.But look out for oils or capsules that have a ratio that is to much of DHA and less EPA, that will not help with mood.
The cod liver oil i drink is 1.5:1 DHA/EPA, and that is good.
Ratio is very important when it comes to essential fatty acids, so look out for a supplement with much EPA in comparison to DHA, and if the DHA is a little bit more, it's no problem, but some are 5:1 DHA/EPA, and that will do nothing.
I don't have time to explain it now cause it's night in sweden, but i will tomorrow if you are interested.
And remember, ALA aka alpha linoleic acid, that comes from flax seeds and so on, is very hard for the body to metabolize to EPA, so the best thing is to cut to the origin = Fish or Algae.
Kind regards / J
Posted by Ruuudy on July 18, 2016, at 0:15:33
In reply to Re: Brain atrophy caused by depression?, posted by jonhed on July 17, 2016, at 18:04:56
> I know you weren't asking me but i feel a big difference since i started drinking cod liver oil that contains 0.8g EPA and 1.2g DHA and a total 2.4g omega 3, with the rest 0.4g are just cod liver oil and pure omega 3.
>
> The best is if the ratio is 3:1 in EPA/DHA, that is proven to be antidepressant.
> But it's expensive.
>> But look out for oils or capsules that have a ratio that is to much of DHA and less EPA, that will not help with mood.
>
> The cod liver oil i drink is 1.5:1 DHA/EPA, and that is good.
>
> Ratio is very important when it comes to essential fatty acids, so look out for a supplement with much EPA in comparison to DHA, and if the DHA is a little bit more, it's no problem, but some are 5:1 DHA/EPA, and that will do nothing.
>
> I don't have time to explain it now cause it's night in sweden, but i will tomorrow if you are interested.
>
> And remember, ALA aka alpha linoleic acid, that comes from flax seeds and so on, is very hard for the body to metabolize to EPA, so the best thing is to cut to the origin = Fish or Algae.
>
> Kind regards / J
>Much appreciated, jonhed!
Yes, I'd be interested in hearing more about finding the right balance of the ingredients. Thanks!
Rudy
Posted by regisx on July 22, 2016, at 20:52:51
In reply to Re: Brain atrophy caused by depression?, posted by Ruuudy on July 18, 2016, at 0:15:33
Hello
Posted by regisx on July 22, 2016, at 20:59:38
In reply to Re: Brain atrophy caused by depression?, posted by regisx on July 22, 2016, at 20:52:51
Hello, I have tried memantine 2 years ago for depression. I went up to 20mg but didn't really "feel" any less depressed.
Then I decided to stop it cause I was worried that it might make my memory worse. Maybe I only imagined it, I dont know but it worried me too much.
Does anybody know how "protective" lamotrigine is in terms of glutamate?
My pdoc wants to examine my MRI pics. But I am not sure if he really knows very much about glutamate toxicity. He was talking more about dementia. He told me that in demenetia certain areas of the brain shrink and that you need to look very specifically at the MRI pics.
I will give him my pics and then he will look at them.
I don't know if going back on memantine would be good or not or if memantine + lamotrigine might be too much.
I take vitamins and other supplements.
But my depression is for a huge part caused by my circumstances and they are very hopeless and depressing. I cannot solve my problems or run away from them. This is very unhealthy and I have been this way for years.
Sometimes I think I'd rather be paranoid and none of the things which depress me are real but it's not so. I mean how can you not be depressed in this world? The world is becoming more hostile every day.
I mean I have so many personal problems but lately the whole terrorism stuff has been dragging me down so much that I don't even have "time" or energy to think much about my personal issues.
Posted by SLS on July 23, 2016, at 3:23:14
In reply to Re: Brain atrophy caused by depression?, posted by regisx on July 22, 2016, at 20:59:38
I am sorry that you are suffering so badly. You are among friends here, many of whom are in the same situation that you are.
I took lamotrigine and memantine at the same time in order to treat my bipolar depression. Adding memantine 20 mg/day didn't help at all, but I did not experience any negative effects. I did try increasing to 40 mg/day, but I felt drunk on the first day, so I decided to stop taking it. I should not have increased the dosage so quickly and I should have taken it for a few more days to see if my cognition improved. The drunk feeling might have been a temporary side effect.
- Scott
Posted by regisx on July 23, 2016, at 21:08:04
In reply to Re: Brain atrophy caused by depression? » regisx, posted by SLS on July 23, 2016, at 3:23:14
I guess I could add a small dose of memantine 5-10mg without side effects. But I dont know if my doc would agree with this and how much it would actually help.
I dont really feel the lamotrigine either. But it's always hard to say cause I dont know how crappy I'd feel if I wasn't on lamotrigine right now.
Posted by SLS on July 25, 2016, at 11:03:49
In reply to Re: Brain atrophy caused by depression?, posted by regisx on July 23, 2016, at 21:08:04
> I guess I could add a small dose of memantine 5-10mg without side effects. But I dont know if my doc would agree with this and how much it would actually help.
>
> I dont really feel the lamotrigine either. But it's always hard to say cause I dont know how crappy I'd feel if I wasn't on lamotrigine right now.You might want to research the notion that lithium can help recover much of the brain tissue lost to atrophy caused by major depressive disorder(MDD) and bipolar disorder (BD). There is some evidence that lithium can also reduce the risk of developing Alzheimer's Dementia.
- Scott
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.