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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by john locke on January 18, 2016, at 22:21:15
I've read this many times; that SSRI's take away emotions and just kind of leave you in this state where you are neither happy nor sad. Is it true?
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 19, 2016, at 5:44:45
In reply to Do SSRI's really 'numb you to life'?, posted by john locke on January 18, 2016, at 22:21:15
it depends on the person. It numbs me a bit but not in a negative way. 75mg Effexor that is.
Posted by SLS on January 19, 2016, at 6:52:27
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's really 'numb you to life'?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 19, 2016, at 5:44:45
I found Zoloft numbing in a bad way. Yuck. Paxil seemed to be okay. Lexapro was only somewhat numbing, although I may be confusing that for sedation and fatigue.
Effexor and Cymbalta were fine, despite being potent serotonin reuptake inhibitors.
I'm sure it is an individual thing. Different people. Different drugs.
So, for me, SSRIs tended to be more numbing than SNRIs. However, I don't buy into the notion that "numbing" emotions - apathy and amotivation - is the way in which SSRIs relieve depression. Perhaps these things reduce impulsivity and suicidality. I don't know.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 19, 2016, at 9:39:43
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's really 'numb you to life'?, posted by SLS on January 19, 2016, at 6:52:27
> So, for me, SSRIs tended to be more numbing than SNRIs. However, I don't buy into the notion that "numbing" emotions - apathy and amotivation - is the way in which SSRIs relieve depression. Perhaps these things reduce impulsivity and suicidality. I don't know.
>
>
> - ScottI agree. There seems to be an effect beyond the numbing with Effexor. Its only mild and not at all negative for me.
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 19, 2016, at 9:40:10
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's really 'numb you to life'?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 19, 2016, at 9:39:43
being whiny and all emotional is no fun.
Posted by Zyprexa on January 19, 2016, at 11:21:25
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's really 'numb you to life'?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 19, 2016, at 9:40:10
> being whiny and all emotional is no fun.
I second that!
Posted by Christ_empowered on January 19, 2016, at 12:10:06
In reply to Do SSRI's really 'numb you to life'?, posted by john locke on January 18, 2016, at 22:21:15
Depends. I think that's an over-generalization. When I was on maxed out Zoloft years ago, I was a bit of a dullard. Now, I take Wellbutrin instead of an SSRI...in part to avoid the dullard-ness and also because a lot of what an SSRI would do for me (reduce anxiety, reduce obsessive thoughts, general calming) is already taken care of by my 30mgs/Abilify.
Now...personal example aside...I've read that men complain of apathy more often than women. I don't know if that means it happens more to men than women, or if men just feel more comfortable being vocal about it because of gender norms.
High doses can lead to hypo-frontality, just as neuroleptics can. There seems to be variation in how each individual responds, and I don't think its just a bio-chemical thing. I skimmed over this paper from the 50s about how gender and personality types affected patient response to Tofranil, which was then a new kid on the block. My best wild *ss guess is that its not just how the pills affect your brain, its your personality structure and probably other things, too, like age, gender, overall health, psychosocial factors, etc.
Dr.David Healy has been very critical of over-use of SSRI drugs, but he still uses them in some circumstances. I read a brief article by him...basically, docs should go back to a drug-centered, rather than "diseases"-centered model for prescribing meds. My "depression" is probably very different from your "depression," so treatment should ideally be based upon improving core symptoms (the ones that actually respond to drugs).
I've rambled...
Posted by SLS on January 19, 2016, at 12:46:10
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's really 'numb you to life'?, posted by Christ_empowered on January 19, 2016, at 12:10:06
High doses [of SSRIs] can lead to hypo-frontality, just as neuroleptics can.
Is this hypo-frontality reversible?
I have read people's complaints that amotivation persists beyond drug discontinuation. It's hard to know what to make of this.
- Scott
Posted by Christ_empowered on January 19, 2016, at 13:30:11
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's really 'numb you to life'? » Christ_empowered, posted by SLS on January 19, 2016, at 12:46:10
I honestly don't remember, sorry. I just vaguely remember reading some things on PubMed about high dose SSRI drugs (I think they were treating OCD) leading to fairly obvious hypo-frontality. Kinda makes sense...some shrinks have compared the SSRI drugs to a combo of Ritalin and Thorazine, in one pill.
As for things persisting...I would imagine its possible (?) . I don't know if it'd be so much persistent amotivational syndrome or whatever as..."tardive dysphoria" is what I believe they're calling it...when treatment w/ an AD makes the long term course worse, not better. Similar to "tardive psychosis..." both are under-studied, for obvious reasons.
Posted by john locke on January 19, 2016, at 13:45:44
In reply to Do SSRI's really 'numb you to life'?, posted by john locke on January 18, 2016, at 22:21:15
Thank you everyone
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 20, 2016, at 4:24:28
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's really 'numb you to life'? » Christ_empowered, posted by SLS on January 19, 2016, at 12:46:10
what is hypo-frontality???
Posted by SLS on January 20, 2016, at 7:01:28
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's really 'numb you to life'?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 20, 2016, at 4:24:28
> what is hypo-frontality???
It describes a reduced function of the frontal lobes and prefrontal cortex. This can affect adversely executive function. Although hypofrontality can be measured biologically, there is only speculation as to its significance. The two main tests for hypofrontality are fMRI scans and PET scans. These tests demonstrate:
1. Reduction in glucose utilization.
2. Reduction in blood flow.Hypofrontality is seen in schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, major depressive disorder, ADHD/ADD, and perhaps others psychiatric illnesses.
* Executive function:
"Executive functions (also known as cognitive control and supervisory attentional system) is an umbrella term for the management (regulation, control) of cognitive processes, including working memory, reasoning, flexibility, and problem solving as well as planning and execution.[1][2][3] The prefrontal areas of the frontal lobe are necessary but not solely sufficient for executive functions."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_functions
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 21, 2016, at 7:52:54
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's really 'numb you to life'?, posted by SLS on January 20, 2016, at 7:01:28
oh ok.
Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 21, 2016, at 22:40:59
In reply to Re: Do SSRI's really 'numb you to life'?, posted by SLS on January 20, 2016, at 7:01:28
not based on fact, but in my view they alter serotonin levels and make things seems serogenic, excess serotonin ometimes can make everything feel ok, or flat or something......
MAOI's are the best antidepressants there are, but there side effect profile is large in numbers than others
that is a good question because i've heard of the numb blah feelings SSRI's give people from reading just reviews on google
Posted by Meltingpot on January 31, 2016, at 17:32:21
In reply to Do SSRI's really 'numb you to life'?, posted by john locke on January 18, 2016, at 22:21:15
It's really funny you bringing this up now as I have been thinking today how numb I always feel on all antidepressants.
When I was in my 20s and only had to take a small dose of a tricyclic and then later on Paxil they made me feel so much better and I felt so much more alive. I really enjoyed life and I laughed so much.
Since being in my 30s they have stopped me going so low, to the point of being suicidal, but I've had to take a much higher dose and although I can feel love, most of the time I just feel really numb and I don't particularly like it. I can't laugh like I normally do and I feel kind of blaze about everything. Which is better than feeling suicidal I guess.
Denise
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