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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 32. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by joe f on November 29, 2015, at 20:13:42
when does thoughts of suicide require intervention.......severly depressed and isolated
meds low dose seroquil,lamictal,tegretol,lexapro,klonopin......been on them all before ...no problem......medium to low doses
Posted by rjlockhart37 on November 29, 2015, at 20:22:50
In reply to suicidal ideation, posted by joe f on November 29, 2015, at 20:13:42
we'll just ... when your depressed but you have the motivation and energy to act out on it, lithium is a good med for reducing suicidal thoughts, it's old and been documented on it's effects on manic depressive depression
Posted by SLS on November 29, 2015, at 21:51:23
In reply to suicidal ideation, posted by joe f on November 29, 2015, at 20:13:42
> when does thoughts of suicide require intervention.......severly depressed and isolated
>
> meds low dose seroquil,lamictal,tegretol,lexapro,klonopin......been on them all before ...no problem......medium to low dosesHang in there, Joe.
I'm sorry you feel so isolated. I am lucky to have a few friends now, but I was very isolated in the 1990s. As a matter of fact, it was Psycho-Babble that helped me feel less isolated. So, as you can see, you are not alone in your isolation. I guess that means that you are not totally isolated.
Regarding your question regarding suicidality, I would not want to take the responsibility of giving you the wrong advice. What sorts of intervention did you have in mind? It sounds like you might be in the midst of a very real crisis. For now, try to avoid anxiety and anger if you can. They can make things worse.
Do you have a doctor? What would prevent you from communicating with him?
It might be helpful to know what are the exact dosages of each of the drugs you are taking. Who chose them?
- Scott
Posted by joe f on November 29, 2015, at 22:35:26
In reply to Re: suicidal ideation » joe f, posted by SLS on November 29, 2015, at 21:51:23
I know the dosages....I am wondering if I am experiencing between dose withdrawal from the klonopin....what would be the symptoms?
Posted by Christ_empowered on November 30, 2015, at 2:55:14
In reply to Re: suicidal ideation, posted by joe f on November 29, 2015, at 22:35:26
Klonopin can cause depression. It can also make depression worse. Why docs insist on giving it to people prone to depression, I have no idea. I think its trendy or something.
How often do you dose your Klonopin?
Any benzodiazepine can cause or worsen depression, but Klonopin is the worst from what I understand. Have you ever tried Valium, Ativan, or Xanax (preferably xanax xr) ? Xanax is falling out of favor, but...it can actually improve mood some, and the xr is supposed to be an all day thing, 1 pill.
Antipsychotics can go either way with depression, honesty, even the atypicals. Some people get robust anti-depressant effects, other people switch into depression or their depression gets worse. The atypicals are definitely better than most of the old APs with mood issues, but they're far from perfect.
Ever tried Trileptal? Its a lot like Tegretol, but the drug-drug interactions aren't as big a deal and there's far less blood work (baseline blood sodium check then another one after 12 weeks, I think). I was just thinking that a switch to Trileptal might clear up any drug-drug problems and make life easier for yoU (and yoru prescriber, too).
That's all the chemical stuff. If you're seriously suicidal, you may want to talk to somebody. Some people do go to hospitals. I'm not a big fan for a lot of reasons, but...some people do benefit. I don't think there's an easy answer to your problems.
Good luck. We're here for you.
Posted by joe f on November 30, 2015, at 12:14:51
In reply to Re: suicidal ideation, posted by Christ_empowered on November 30, 2015, at 2:55:14
been on klonopin before ..no problem....Ativan made situation worse
Posted by baseball55 on November 30, 2015, at 21:13:10
In reply to Re: suicidal ideation, posted by joe f on November 30, 2015, at 12:14:51
When to get help? If you are suicidal and feel you might act on it, are making plans and feeling overwhelmed by these thoughts, you should either make an emergency appointment with your provider to decide whether going to the hospital is a good idea or simply take yourself to the emergency room. Suicidal planning is not a med adjustment issue. It is an emergency.
However, if you do seek emergency help, you must realize that you will be placed on a locked ward and, in most states, kept for three business days without being able to leave, even if you want to. So you must decide - how much a danger am I to myself and others? Do I want to be safe? am I willing to be locked up to be safe from intrusive suicidal ideation for a while?
People complain about locked psych wards all the time. I have been locked up for days or even weeks at a time on several occasions. I never regretted this. It kept me safe and alive and I would not have remained alive had I not been hospitalized in a locked ward. I found the doctors, nurses, social workers, counselors and aides almost all helpful and kind, despite the fact that I was out of control a few times and had angry interactions with the staff. Of course, I was in highly regarded teaching hospitals in Boston, so they were well staffed and the staff well trained.
My two cents. If you feel you are in danger, get emergency help.
Posted by SLS on November 30, 2015, at 22:01:35
In reply to suicidal ideation, posted by joe f on November 29, 2015, at 20:13:42
Hi, Joe.
I agree with Baseball55.
- Scott
Posted by joe f on December 1, 2015, at 16:13:15
In reply to Re: suicidal ideation » joe f, posted by SLS on November 30, 2015, at 22:01:35
thamk you
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2015, at 6:38:01
In reply to suicidal ideation, posted by joe f on November 29, 2015, at 20:13:42
> when does thoughts of suicide require intervention.......severly depressed and isolated
>
> meds low dose seroquil,lamictal,tegretol,lexapro,klonopin......been on them all before ...no problem......medium to low dosesjoe,
You wrote,[...thoughts of suicide...depressed and isolated...meds(deadly mix that could cause suicidal thoughts)...].
What's it all about, joe. Is it just for the drugs that you live? You see, there is a whole lot more left out here, and a lot less truth allowed. But let us reason together.
Let us look at:
Lou
www.dr-bob.org/babble/20151119/msgs/1084139.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2015, at 6:40:45
In reply to Lous response-ehyhollotmoar » joe f, posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2015, at 6:38:01
> > when does thoughts of suicide require intervention.......severly depressed and isolated
> >
> > meds low dose seroquil,lamictal,tegretol,lexapro,klonopin......been on them all before ...no problem......medium to low doses
>
> joe,
> You wrote,[...thoughts of suicide...depressed and isolated...meds(deadly mix that could cause suicidal thoughts)...].
> What's it all about, joe. Is it just for the drugs that you live? You see, there is a whole lot more left out here, and a lot less truth allowed. But let us reason together.
> Let us look at:
> Lou
> www.dr-bob.org/babble/20151119/msgs/1084139.html
>
corrected link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20151119/msgs/1084139.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2015, at 6:57:04
In reply to corrected link: Lou's response-ehyhollotmoar, posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2015, at 6:40:45
> > > when does thoughts of suicide require intervention.......severly depressed and isolated
> > >
> > > meds low dose seroquil,lamictal,tegretol,lexapro,klonopin......been on them all before ...no problem......medium to low doses
> >
> > joe,
> > You wrote,[...thoughts of suicide...depressed and isolated...meds(deadly mix that could cause suicidal thoughts)...].
> > What's it all about, joe. Is it just for the drugs that you live? You see, there is a whole lot more left out here, and a lot less truth allowed. But let us reason together.
> > Let us look at:
> > Lou
> > www.dr-bob.org/babble/20151119/msgs/1084139.html
> >
> corrected link:
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20151119/msgs/1084139.html
>
joe,
Many here will tell you to take this drug or that drug because it hits a receptor. This could conjure up the thought of like a pin-ball machine when the ball hits the receptor and a light goes on and a bell rings and the score goes up. But is that what it is all about, or just a deception to cause your death? For there is a whole lot more to this, and a lot more left out that could deceive.
Let us look at this video and see that the brain reacts when a receptor is hit that is not told here, and that could cost you your life. And worse, I am prohibited from posting here what IMHO could save your life due to the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr. Hsiung.
Lou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at3Sg6qvgTE
Posted by joe f on December 3, 2015, at 16:28:02
In reply to Lou's response-of mice and men, posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2015, at 6:57:04
is what you are saying i'm using these drugs / ideas because I really do not want to live?
Posted by SLS on December 3, 2015, at 17:03:06
In reply to Re: Lou's response-of mice and men, posted by joe f on December 3, 2015, at 16:28:02
> is what you are saying i'm using these drugs / ideas because I really do not want to live?
I didn't read the post that you are responding to here, but I am absolutely sure that you want to live. I say this based upon your participation here. That doesn't mean that you don't need extra help right now. However, I believe that your honest and sincere requests for help demonstrates your positive and constructive drive for survival and the desire for a good life.
Hang in there!
- Scott
Posted by joe f on December 3, 2015, at 18:16:27
In reply to Re: Lou's response-of mice and men » joe f, posted by SLS on December 3, 2015, at 17:03:06
well said ....thank you.......do you think inpatient is a good idea
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2015, at 19:04:14
In reply to Re: Lou's response-of mice and men, posted by joe f on December 3, 2015, at 16:28:02
> is what you are saying i'm using these drugs / ideas because I really do not want to live?
>
> joe,
What is your rational basis from what I have posted here, if any, to question as to if that is what I mean?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2015, at 19:14:22
In reply to Re: Lou's response-of mice and men » joe f, posted by SLS on December 3, 2015, at 17:03:06
> > is what you are saying i'm using these drugs / ideas because I really do not want to live?
>
> I didn't read the post that you are responding to here, but I am absolutely sure that you want to live. I say this based upon your participation here. That doesn't mean that you don't need extra help right now. However, I believe that your honest and sincere requests for help demonstrates your positive and constructive drive for survival and the desire for a good life.
>
> Hang in there!
>
>
> - ScottScott,
You wrote that because joe is in participation here that you are absolutely sure that he wants to live because he is participating here.
I am unsure as to what is your rational basis, if any, for making such a conclusion. If you could post answers to the following then I could respond.
True or False:
A. Anyone that participates here wants to live
B. The people that killed themselves here as participants were faking participation
C. People here that had honest and sincere requests and killed themselves, lied.
D. If people do not want to live, by them participating here, you warrantee that they will not kill themselves because by participating they want to live.
E. The posters that say that they want to kill themselves here, are liars.
Lou
Posted by joe f on December 3, 2015, at 19:37:50
In reply to Lou's response-of life and pen » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2015, at 19:14:22
I want to live but when you mentally do not feel good for a while each day becomes tuff
bipolar/anxiety/ocd
meds lamictal200/tegretol 400 Lexapro 20 seroquil 100 sleep klonopin2.5 ......could it be my meds are just not strong enough to control the symptoms
Posted by joe f on December 3, 2015, at 19:42:15
In reply to Re: Lou's response-of life and pen, posted by joe f on December 3, 2015, at 19:37:50
i'm also starting to wonder about my dr. he had me cold turkey off Cymbalta 60 mg at one time ....I lasted 3 days.......also had me cold turkey off tegretol 600 ...sick as a dog......just went from 3mg of klonopin to 2mg said no big deal.......
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2015, at 20:50:52
In reply to Re: Lou's response-of life and pen, posted by joe f on December 3, 2015, at 19:37:50
> I want to live but when you mentally do not feel good for a while each day becomes tuff
>
> bipolar/anxiety/ocd
>
> meds lamictal200/tegretol 400 Lexapro 20 seroquil 100 sleep klonopin2.5 ......could it be my meds are just not strong enough to control the symptomsjoe,
The concoction of chemicals that you are taking could cause sudden death. And the longer that you take them, the more addicted you could become to them so that stopping them could be so horrific that you could kill yourself. And worse, you are thinking that the drugs need more strength. And there could be damage from the drugs so that more drugs could make you so impaired, that you could kill yourself accidentally by not understanding that what you are doing could cause death. And you could be dehumanized by the drugs so that you could not see life itself and shoot people thinking that they are toy ducks. The drugs could turn off the light of life in you.
But there is hope. Not the hope that others here post about in that a new drug will come out.
I am prohibited to post this here by Mr. Hsiung. You could write Mr. Hsiung a letter and ask him why he prohibits me from posting how you could
be led out of the darkness of death into a marvelous light of life.
Lou
Posted by joe f on December 3, 2015, at 21:03:13
In reply to Lou's reply-of meds and death » joe f, posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2015, at 20:50:52
lou ...don't quite understand...been on these meds for years and the are low doses......was highly functionable until april when I started cutting back on them.....as far as seroquil it really is only 25mg for sleep as tegretol reduces it substantially and it reduces klonopin by 30% and lamictal by 50% I appreciate your concern ..could you please elaborate on my comments thanks
Posted by joe f on December 3, 2015, at 21:04:36
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-of meds and death, posted by joe f on December 3, 2015, at 21:03:13
does anyone here agree with lou?
Posted by SLS on December 3, 2015, at 21:30:31
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-of meds and death, posted by joe f on December 3, 2015, at 21:04:36
> does anyone here agree with lou?
NO!!!
No. No. No.
My advice to you is to get other opinions using various resources.
Should you go to the hospital? If you have to ask that question, then you probably should. You could go directly to the emergency department (ER). It is the safest route for you to take. They will screen you there and make a determination whether or not you need hospitalization. You would be getting a second opinion and perhaps have managed changes made to your treatment. Ask the attending psychiatrist for suggestions on finding a new doctor if you feel that it is time to make a change.
I am not happy to see you have your medication reduced in such ways by your current doctor. Did he make all of these changes at once? Certainly, he could have tapered the Cymbalta and Tegretol gradually, as both drugs come in smaller dosage forms. I hate to say negative things about other people's doctors, but it seems that yours has very little appreciation for the intensity of drug withdrawal, including the emergence of suicidality.
Keep posting.
- Scott
Posted by joe f on December 3, 2015, at 21:58:03
In reply to Look for other opinions. » joe f, posted by SLS on December 3, 2015, at 21:30:31
I think that's right very little appreciation for what one might go through.......the Cymbalta and tegretol were at 2 different times.....the klonopin from 3 to 2 seems to be alright.....since the doses are fairly low it might be time and easier for another dr. to make changes.......your thoughts?
Posted by SLS on December 3, 2015, at 22:48:51
In reply to Re: Look for other opinions., posted by joe f on December 3, 2015, at 21:58:03
> I think that's right very little appreciation for what one might go through.......the Cymbalta and tegretol were at 2 different times.....the klonopin from 3 to 2 seems to be alright.....since the doses are fairly low it might be time and easier for another dr. to make changes.......your thoughts?
I think that your idea makes sense, as long as you can tolerate your current state. A good doctor will be able to manage your treatment even if you were to continue your old regime.
- Scott
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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