Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1077881

Shown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

sleep options other than benzo's?

Posted by b2chica on March 27, 2015, at 23:06:10

what do docs typically recommend for sleep Other than benzo's.
i just cant tolerate them on long term basis.
zyprexa only brand seems to help with sleep and too $$,
tried zzzquil, ok sometimes.
tried melatonin, ok sometimes
alcohol works but makes mood way worse
been on almost many sleep meds like ambien, sonata... cant think of the others right now but they all worked for a few weeks than stopped.

its like the things that do work for me i 'adapt' to..
i just hate this insomnia. not sure what else to try..
and yes, tried the, meditation (makes everything worse), tea does relax but just not enough, baths etc usually wakes me up...


b2

 

Re: sleep options other than benzo's?

Posted by Zyprexa on March 28, 2015, at 10:15:24

In reply to sleep options other than benzo's?, posted by b2chica on March 27, 2015, at 23:06:10

Have you tried trazidone?

 

Re: sleep options other than benzo's?

Posted by Christ_empowered on March 28, 2015, at 13:03:56

In reply to sleep options other than benzo's?, posted by b2chica on March 27, 2015, at 23:06:10

high dose neurontin, trazadone as zyprexa suggested, doxepin, surmontil, hydroxyzine...

...thorazine has been used as a sleep med, and as part of pre-operative cocktails (at low doses). Maybe a once nightly Thorazine could help?

 

Re: sleep options other than benzo's?

Posted by linkadge on March 28, 2015, at 19:02:51

In reply to Re: sleep options other than benzo's?, posted by Christ_empowered on March 28, 2015, at 13:03:56

I've made a list of sleep meds that I cycle through. I put a * beside the ones I find more effective.


Vitamin - Mineral - Amino Acid
------------------------------
Niacin ***
Melatonin **
Tryptohpan *
Magnesium ***
Taurine **


Herbs
-----
Kava **
Olive Oil **
Valerian **
Chamomile **
Passionflower *
Lemon Balm
Rosemary ***
Lavender
Catnip
Hopps
Skullcap
Feverfew **
Quercetin *
Bacopa **

Benzodiazapine (+ Z drugs)
--------------

Many

Antihisamine
------------
Benadryl
Hydroxyzine (5-ht2 antagonist) **
Trazodone (5-ht2 antagonist) *
Seroquel (5-ht2 / d2 antagonist) **
Remeron (5-ht2 antagonist ***
Periactin (5-ht2 antagonist + calcium blocker) **
Trimipramine (5-ht2 antagonist) ***
Doxapin (5-ht2 antagonist) **
Amitriptyline (5-ht2 antagonist / calcium blocker) ***
Chlorpheniramine (antihistamine + SSRI) **

ION Channel Blockers / Other
----------------------------
Lithium **
Depakote *
Gabapentin
Carbamazepine **


......

Now, I don't recommend taking any combinations before you know how something affects you individually. Some of these combinations can provide significant synergy. For instance remeron + magnesium + melatonin + lorazepam in small doses can really stop bad insomnia in its tracks. That one is my never fail combination.

Linkadge

 

Re: sleep options other than benzo's? » b2chica

Posted by stan_the_man70 on March 29, 2015, at 3:30:44

In reply to sleep options other than benzo's?, posted by b2chica on March 27, 2015, at 23:06:10

early morning:
have a drink with lemon, honey, apple cider vinegar etc or try a coconut or an orange in case you need it
try exercise - try a workout with weights, or try stretching or try swim/bike/jog.
Get sun exposure in case u need it

day:
enjoy your work
eat small healthy portions during the day
eat fermented foods
improve your digestion with pineapple etc
get adequate hydration

weight:
try to lose weight in case it applies to u

late afternoon/evening:
in case you have the inclination try attending art and literature exhibitions, or enjoy a religious festival with music, or enjoy the outdoors with nature, or try volunteering
breath clean air

evening time:
avoid taking stimulants
avoid watching television or spending a lot of time on the computer

dinner:
try a meal with black rice and clarified butter and sprouts and bone broth soup

or try juicing mix fruits and vegetables together
always puts me to sleep

or try a smoothie:
organic milk, germinated sprouted brown rice, raw honey, fresh banana, raw almonds,
raw organic egg, sunflower pumpkin flax sesame seeds, whole grain complex carb cereal powder, fresh nutmeg powder, wet cherry, probiotic yogurt, fresh kale/spinach, fish oil, turmeric, pine nuts, yakult

cleanliness:
take a shower prior to going to bed
wear clean soft comfortable cotton clothes
use simple clean soft sheets
use a proper pillow
its ok to sweat as long as you stay clean
keep a decent temperature in the room

room:
the room should be clean
no dirt on the walls or floors
don't have any electronics or electrical instruments
no complicated machinery or books or boxes
try to keep the room empty

before:
try some stretches
lie down with your legs raised up against the wall
or try other positions

in bed:
keep the room dark or use a face/eye mask
keep the room quiet or use soft ear plus
keep your nostrils open and/or use an air purifier - stop snoring

radio:
in case you cannot fall asleep then tune the radio to a news discussion radio station
this will engage your brain and stop your thoughts from wandering and make you tired
the radio should have an auto sleep functionality

 

Re: sleep options other than benzo's? » b2chica

Posted by stan_the_man70 on March 29, 2015, at 10:46:39

In reply to sleep options other than benzo's?, posted by b2chica on March 27, 2015, at 23:06:10

do let me know if you try it out...

have u been posting since 2004 about sleep issues, if I may ask?

 

Re: sleep options other than benzo's?

Posted by b2chica on March 30, 2015, at 10:53:37

In reply to Re: sleep options other than benzo's?, posted by linkadge on March 28, 2015, at 19:02:51

link,
thank you what a comprehensive list, its wonderful. there are many i havent tried.
there are actually several meds i have requested recently (trimipramine, doxapin, amitriptyline that pdoc did not put me on, but i would like to try trazodone i dont think ive tried that one.

i have done many of the herbs but a few i havent even heard of so great!
also, i think ive herd others mention Taurine is that easy to get? (otc)

 

Re: sleep options other than benzo's?

Posted by b2chica on March 30, 2015, at 11:00:56

In reply to Re: sleep options other than benzo's? » b2chica, posted by stan_the_man70 on March 29, 2015, at 10:46:39

thanks STM,
i have tried many of these things, unfortunately they only sometimes work. i think the yoga sometimes helps the most

but what tends to happen is the minute i lay down it gets worse and i just cant shut down my mind.
though there are several food options that i havent tried. i would like to try those.

about 2004, funny you should ask. i was lurking around psychobabble the end of 2003 and i think i first started posting here early 2004.
and sleep has always been an issue for me (off and on).
in fact i remember around 2000, i went to my GP a couple times about helping with sleep and the first time they suggested tylenol pm (like sugar pills) plus as someone who barely took even aspirin at that time i didnt like taking pain pills just for sleep. The next time he gave me environmental things to try teas, healthy diet, exercise.
i guess while i was in school it just wasnt really an issue as my schedule was varied and i needed some nights to stay up late and alert studying.

 

Re: sleep options other than benzo's? » b2chica

Posted by baseball55 on March 30, 2015, at 21:13:44

In reply to Re: sleep options other than benzo's?, posted by b2chica on March 30, 2015, at 11:00:56


> but what tends to happen is the minute i lay down it gets worse and i just cant shut down my mind.

This always happened to me as well. Recently, I started meditating - very seriously, taking classes to learn how to do it properly, practicing every day. Now when my mind races at bedtime, I use meditation techniques to quiet it and fall asleep. Really, I have never slept better than I have in the last few months since I started meditating. I now can fall asleep at the same time each night, something I never did before.

 

Re: sleep options other than benzo's? » b2chica

Posted by stan_the_man70 on March 31, 2015, at 6:58:47

In reply to Re: sleep options other than benzo's?, posted by b2chica on March 30, 2015, at 11:00:56

I'm surprised these things did not work for you.

In severe cases, lifestyle changes usually make a difference

 

Re: sleep options other than benzo's?

Posted by b2chica on March 31, 2015, at 19:30:40

In reply to Re: sleep options other than benzo's? » b2chica, posted by baseball55 on March 30, 2015, at 21:13:44

anything specific you do?
i do have problems with meditation sometimes as i have ptsd and it seems sometimes that it actually panics me more than calms me... however, sometimes it can work... i haven't figured out what works and what doesn't. i dont know if its the technique or just my 'state of mind' at the time.
let me know any tips you may have.
b2

>
> > but what tends to happen is the minute i lay down it gets worse and i just cant shut down my mind.
>
> This always happened to me as well. Recently, I started meditating - very seriously, taking classes to learn how to do it properly, practicing every day. Now when my mind races at bedtime, I use meditation techniques to quiet it and fall asleep. Really, I have never slept better than I have in the last few months since I started meditating. I now can fall asleep at the same time each night, something I never did before.
>

 

Re: sleep options other.... (long) STM

Posted by b2chica on March 31, 2015, at 20:15:06

In reply to Re: sleep options other than benzo's? » b2chica, posted by stan_the_man70 on March 31, 2015, at 6:58:47

Hi STM.
i finally had the time to respond to your post and would like to comment on each of the items you listed, if you have the time i would appreciate you reading through it and let me know if you have any suggestions. Thank You!

early morning.
i usually have a black tea with honey in the morning.
i have a terrible time in the morning, very tired, sad etc. so its impossible for me to exercise first thing in the a.m.
though this week i am making myself get up to take one of my kids to school (parochial) and i go to mass. Since it happens at a specific time it helps that i cant just say "ill do it later". so thats been helpful. and i dont nap during the day, in fact i think even if i tried i wouldnt be able to. i SO terribly tired, but shutting down my brain is so hard.

day.
although ive recently lost my job, i was not that pleased with it toward the end so im not totally heart-broken. i am concerned about health insurance, retirement, etc. but for now i want to focus on getting stable health wise.
i eat pretty decently now that im home and dont have to worry about eating fast or anything like that. and i drink more water than i used to, though i drink more hot tea (herbal) than anything.

weight;
i could really lose some weight, but when Im home i have to watch my youngest and whenever i try to get on treadmill she constantly wants to get on with me not exactly relaxing. but (see next item)


late afternoon/evening:
i have little ones so i want to enjoy spending time with them. im making a point to take my youngest to the park in the afternoon, and go outside in the early evening when they are outside playing. Though with my breathing stuff its sometimes hard to do too much.

all the food things.
there are many of these i have not tried and would like to. im surprised mixing fruits and vegetable juice makes you tired. i always tend to feel just, better, after smoothines.
however, with your smoothie list, most of these i have not tried, so i really would like to try some of them.

cleanliness.
im having showering trouble (part of my issues during depression or psychosis). so i am up to twice a week. but its very very hard for me. and if i do it at night i cant get to sleep for at least a couple hours afterward (this is a whole other issue). and i dont do baths.
i do try to change the sheets often, as i like the smell and i have even been making the bed cuz i do like the way it feel to crawl into it.

room:
one major problem with our house is all the crap around. im trying to delete some non necessary items. but i only have a couple days a week with decent energy and the rest its hard just to get around the house, make lunch etc. if my little one wasnt here during the day i doubt i would eat much lunch if at all.
i do surface clean like vacuum and dust frequently, and i use the method cleaner which smells good (grapefruit is my favorite). and i have a mint for the bathrooms.
i try to shut down all electronics unless im using them as i did notice this makes a difference. believe it or not, i can somehow tell when they are on and feel more relaxed when they are completely off.
i do however have TONS of books in this house. downstairs, upstairs, living room, and bedroom.
however, my hubby has a laundry basket of crap on his dresser that someday he will go through this drives me bonkers. cuz its like everything else. trash, unused items and things hell never use.

before:
i LOVE the yoga position of legs up against the wall. this is VERY relieving for me and do find help from this.just not enough.

bed:
use eye mask
use ear plugs
using nebulizer and/or nasonex in evening lately.

radio:
music lately i have trouble with. something that has always been a solice to me really effects my mood so i am avoiding it, though i do listen to some classical on pandora once and a while. and talk radio always keeps my brain up, mostly because i want to absorb/learn about what they are discussing so i avoid that.

comments:
in the evening ive been trying to shut down with no electronics at least an hour or so before bed, and have been reading.
also i drink a lot of hot tea in the evenings.
i use herbal/medicinal teas. mostly one called nighty night . some with honey some not.
but the teas tend to have in them (not all together):
chamomile
passionflower
lemon balm
lavender
hopps
skullcap
lindenflower
catnip
hop strobile
lemon verbena
lemongrass
tilia flowers (not sure what they are)
hawthorn and rosebuds
also i have one tea called roasted dandelion root


couple questions i have:
what are examples of fermented foods?? (other than cheese beer or wine i presume?)
if there are any other natural herbs or things i could try i am up for it.

thank you much Stan
b2

 

Re: sleep options other than benzo's? » b2chica

Posted by baseball55 on March 31, 2015, at 21:10:46

In reply to Re: sleep options other than benzo's?, posted by b2chica on March 31, 2015, at 19:30:40

> anything specific you do?
> i do have problems with meditation sometimes as i have ptsd and it seems sometimes that it actually panics me more than calms me... however, sometimes it can work... i haven't figured out what works and what doesn't. i dont know if its the technique or just my 'state of mind' at the time.
> let me know any tips you may have.
> b2
My only tip is take a class. Find a meditation center near you. They are all over. Most have introductory classes over a few weeks or regular drop-in sessions with some guided meditation. I "meditated" regularly for years, or tried to, and hadn't a clue about what I was doing or what the point was or how to deal with feelings that came up. If you can't find something near you, listen to talks and guided meditations on line. Read something about Buddhism and the goals of meditation.

 

Re: sleep options other.... (long) STM » b2chica

Posted by stan_the_man70 on April 2, 2015, at 13:53:26

In reply to Re: sleep options other.... (long) STM, posted by b2chica on March 31, 2015, at 20:15:06

my background
I have had problems with sleep since college days
and later on could not sleep at all (NOTHING) without benzos
have stopped all pills now and no issues with sleep - as long as exercise is daily

morning:
personally would avoid tea or caffeine or stimulants
hot water with a full lemon and apple cider vinegar and honey really does wake me up (can add ginger garlic cayenne pepper cinnamon)
get a personal yoga trainer, or get an online trainer, or join yogaglo.com online - this will keep you regular with exercise
(theres probably even local teens who will do it for minimum wage, in case money is an issue)
for some people, exercise later on in the day tends to energize rather than result in sleep

day:
try holy basil tea in the day to calm you down
hope you get some time to learn new stuff daily
and actually get to do some things hands on (in my case would be to write a real functioning computer program)
why not try juicing

late afternoon/evening
would it be possible to go to church during evenings?
at the park - hope you get a decent workout by just walking around with ankle/lumbar/waist weights or other physical activity

cleanliness
for me its really important - depends on my work during the day
and in your case - why not take a shower two hours before bed time
even if the rest of the house is cluttered - could the sleeping area can be empty?

before:
try stretching - there are certain standing, sitting lying down exercises that you can do in the night time - really removes the bottlenecks
you will have to search for these online - there are a variety of stretches

when it comes to stretching on your own - dunno what the issue is - focus, energy, technique, stamina, motivation - but could you get hubby to provide guidance, or twisting or stretching or holding etc

bed:
listening to music does not tire me out and put me to sleep - but news analysis does

fermented foods - there is a big connection between the gut bacteria and abdomen area nervous system and brain health apparently
fermented foods - yogurt, kefir, sauerkraut, kombucha tea, non spicy pickled vegetables

herbs - don't like herbs or supplements
they work for a while then rebound - means that they stop working really fast for me
its very difficult to figure out the combination of herbs and dosage
and this can vary based on tiredness and past meals etc
so personally tend to just avoid these

losing weight - probably most important
in my case its not a question of just diet and exercise - need the right foods - and really need to work out hard
its probably the quality of the exercise and the intensity that matters
when i had a personal trainer - i did a variety of weight training and aerobic type activities for 2 hours 3 times a week
what happened was that I started getting extra sleep
could you try to exercise when the younger one is asleep?


> Hi STM.
> i finally had the time to respond to your post and would like to comment on each of the items you listed, if you have the time i would appreciate you reading through it and let me know if you have any suggestions. Thank You!
>
>
>
>
>
> early morning.
> i usually have a black tea with honey in the morning.
> i have a terrible time in the morning, very tired, sad etc. so its impossible for me to exercise first thing in the a.m.
> though this week i am making myself get up to take one of my kids to school (parochial) and i go to mass. Since it happens at a specific time it helps that i cant just say "ill do it later". so thats been helpful. and i dont nap during the day, in fact i think even if i tried i wouldnt be able to. i SO terribly tired, but shutting down my brain is so hard.
>
> day.
> although ive recently lost my job, i was not that pleased with it toward the end so im not totally heart-broken. i am concerned about health insurance, retirement, etc. but for now i want to focus on getting stable health wise.
> i eat pretty decently now that im home and dont have to worry about eating fast or anything like that. and i drink more water than i used to, though i drink more hot tea (herbal) than anything.
>
> weight;
> i could really lose some weight, but when Im home i have to watch my youngest and whenever i try to get on treadmill she constantly wants to get on with me not exactly relaxing. but (see next item)
>
>
> late afternoon/evening:
> i have little ones so i want to enjoy spending time with them. im making a point to take my youngest to the park in the afternoon, and go outside in the early evening when they are outside playing. Though with my breathing stuff its sometimes hard to do too much.
>
> all the food things.
> there are many of these i have not tried and would like to. im surprised mixing fruits and vegetable juice makes you tired. i always tend to feel just, better, after smoothines.
> however, with your smoothie list, most of these i have not tried, so i really would like to try some of them.
>
> cleanliness.
> im having showering trouble (part of my issues during depression or psychosis). so i am up to twice a week. but its very very hard for me. and if i do it at night i cant get to sleep for at least a couple hours afterward (this is a whole other issue). and i dont do baths.
> i do try to change the sheets often, as i like the smell and i have even been making the bed cuz i do like the way it feel to crawl into it.
>
> room:
> one major problem with our house is all the crap around. im trying to delete some non necessary items. but i only have a couple days a week with decent energy and the rest its hard just to get around the house, make lunch etc. if my little one wasnt here during the day i doubt i would eat much lunch if at all.
> i do surface clean like vacuum and dust frequently, and i use the method cleaner which smells good (grapefruit is my favorite). and i have a mint for the bathrooms.
> i try to shut down all electronics unless im using them as i did notice this makes a difference. believe it or not, i can somehow tell when they are on and feel more relaxed when they are completely off.
> i do however have TONS of books in this house. downstairs, upstairs, living room, and bedroom.
> however, my hubby has a laundry basket of crap on his dresser that someday he will go through this drives me bonkers. cuz its like everything else. trash, unused items and things hell never use.
>
> before:
> i LOVE the yoga position of legs up against the wall. this is VERY relieving for me and do find help from this.just not enough.
>
> bed:
> use eye mask
> use ear plugs
> using nebulizer and/or nasonex in evening lately.
>
> radio:
> music lately i have trouble with. something that has always been a solice to me really effects my mood so i am avoiding it, though i do listen to some classical on pandora once and a while. and talk radio always keeps my brain up, mostly because i want to absorb/learn about what they are discussing so i avoid that.
>
>
>
> comments:
> in the evening ive been trying to shut down with no electronics at least an hour or so before bed, and have been reading.
> also i drink a lot of hot tea in the evenings.
> i use herbal/medicinal teas. mostly one called nighty night . some with honey some not.
> but the teas tend to have in them (not all together):
> chamomile
> passionflower
> lemon balm
> lavender
> hopps
> skullcap
> lindenflower
> catnip
> hop strobile
> lemon verbena
> lemongrass
> tilia flowers (not sure what they are)
> hawthorn and rosebuds
> also i have one tea called roasted dandelion root
>
>
> couple questions i have:
> what are examples of fermented foods?? (other than cheese beer or wine i presume?)
> if there are any other natural herbs or things i could try i am up for it.
>
> thank you much Stan
> b2
>

 

Re: sleep options other than benzo's? » b2chica

Posted by phidippus on April 12, 2015, at 7:55:33

In reply to sleep options other than benzo's?, posted by b2chica on March 27, 2015, at 23:06:10

Doctors recommend psychological intervention in the form of CBT-I for the treatment of insomnia. Studies show CBT-I is as effective as medications and more effective in the long term.

But if you want drugs that actually improve sleep, I would recommend Gabapentin, Cannabidiol, Lyrica, Gabitril and Rozerem. Benzos, antihistamines, antipsychotics and nonbenzodiazapines all f*ck up sleep architecture and have little data to support their efficacy.

Meditation doesn't work because if you do it right it ends up being activating.

There's also a ne drug on the market called Suvorexent that might be worth trying.

Eric

 

Re: sleep options other than benzo's?

Posted by Elanor Roosevelt on April 22, 2015, at 21:30:33

In reply to Re: sleep options other than benzo's? » b2chica, posted by stan_the_man70 on March 31, 2015, at 6:58:47

i'm having some success with doxepin

 

Re: sleep options other than benzo's? » b2chica

Posted by tony p on May 9, 2015, at 19:37:09

In reply to sleep options other than benzo's?, posted by b2chica on March 27, 2015, at 23:06:10

> what do docs typically recommend for sleep Other than benzo's.
> i just cant tolerate them on long term basis.
> zyprexa only brand seems to help with sleep and too $$,
> tried zzzquil, ok sometimes.
> tried melatonin, ok sometimes
> alcohol works but makes mood way worse
> been on almost many sleep meds like ambien, sonata... cant think of the others right now but they all worked for a few weeks than stopped.
>
> its like the things that do work for me i 'adapt' to..
> i just hate this insomnia. not sure what else to try..
> and yes, tried the, meditation (makes everything worse), tea does relax but just not enough, baths etc usually wakes me up...
>
>
> b2

Two medical suggestions:
* Trimipramine, which according to Wikipedia gives the most natural sleep (and I have found it so); disadvantages, long half-life (hangover, can't wake up), and in large doses may have an unwanted anti-depressant effect.
* Serzone (nefazodone), again an antidepressant, unfortunately getting hard to find (N/A in Canada). When I first went on it, I was waking up in the middle of the night with my mind racing incoherently. Serzone completely cured that.

I skimmed the non-medical approaches, so not sure if this was covered: DO NOT use the computer or watch TV within 2 hours of bedtime. The intense blue light stimulates the wake-up centre.

 

Re: sleep options other than benzo's? » phidippus

Posted by tony p on May 9, 2015, at 19:42:21

In reply to Re: sleep options other than benzo's? » b2chica, posted by phidippus on April 12, 2015, at 7:55:33

> snip <
> There's also a ne drug on the market called Suvorexent that might be worth trying.
>
> Eric

Can you tell me more about Suvorexent? A friend just switched from Trazadone to a new med he couldn't remember the name of. it's new in Canada at least. Asked my pdoc, he said the only new one he knew of (didn't mention name) was very addicitve.

 

Re: sleep options other than benzo's?

Posted by tony p on May 9, 2015, at 19:47:55

In reply to Re: sleep options other than benzo's? » phidippus, posted by tony p on May 9, 2015, at 19:42:21

> Can you tell me more about Suvorexent? A friend just switched from Trazadone to a new med he couldn't remember the name of. it's new in Canada at least. Asked my pdoc, he said the only new one he knew of (didn't mention name) was very addicitve.

P.S. Wikipedia lists Suvorexant (trade name Belsomra) but says addiction potential is yet to be determined.


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