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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jeroen on January 7, 2014, at 8:15:06
been killed by minocycline "hidden infection"
i am not sure but its just a theory
i dont want seroquel anymore
im good on abilify and minocycline i think
Posted by Jeroen on January 7, 2014, at 8:16:47
In reply to will seroquel kick in again after viruses have bee, posted by Jeroen on January 7, 2014, at 8:15:06
bleauberry?
Posted by Jeroen on January 8, 2014, at 6:51:55
In reply to will seroquel kick in again after viruses have bee, posted by Jeroen on January 7, 2014, at 8:15:06
bleauberry where are you brother?
Posted by bleauberry on January 9, 2014, at 17:06:36
In reply to will seroquel kick in again after viruses have bee, posted by Jeroen on January 7, 2014, at 8:15:06
Complicated stuff Jereon. Most of what we deal with, you realize there is no hard science. This is a healing art. So it really is impossible to answer your question. But I can offer a few things to be aware of.
First of all, if mino is going to help you, it is going to be months, not days or weeks. Animal studies show that it is not possible to eradicate every last one of them, but that we can get their populations low enough to have minimal symptoms. So think in those terms. Months.
Mino doesn't kill viruses, it is suppressive to bacteria. But, it can indirectly kill viruses, or make them less impactful, by taking a load off your immune system so it has the reserves to do that.
When someone has been treated successfully in this manner, usually 1 1/2 to 3 years, there usually is no need for any further psychiatric drugs. The goal is to say bye bye to seroquel, not ask if it will work. Why would someone take an antipsychotic if they had no symptoms? That's the goal and mino can play a role in getting there. But it's a war Jereon and it takes time.
Let's jump ahead 5 years and just for the sake of example assume you are 85% better by then and feeling very happy with your progress. What happened? Did we kill off bacteria? Did we kill off viruses? Was it neither of those, but instead somehow the mino reset some bad genes? Reduced brain inflammation? On and on...my point is...we will probably never know what was actually wrong or what bug we killed off.
> been killed by minocycline "hidden infection"
>
> i am not sure but its just a theory
> i dont want seroquel anymore
> im good on abilify and minocycline i think
Posted by bleauberry on January 9, 2014, at 17:18:14
In reply to Re: will seroquel kick in again after viruses have bee, posted by Jeroen on January 8, 2014, at 6:51:55
Hey Jereon, sorry bro! Had a doc appointment today. Looks like I'm gonna get a trial of ultra low dose cortef. Cool. I have instinctively and academically been convinced that is the missing link in my case, so I'm looking forward to that experiment which will hopefully turn out helpful.
Anyway, this is fairly new stuff for you Jereon, and actually anyone else here who has not had exposure to my points of views. So I just wanted to talk about the actual bugs for a second.
They have had thousands of years to develop cunning and sometimes absolutely ingenius ways of evading the immune system, tricking the immune system, hiding in cysts made of our own flesh so our immune can't see them, dwelling in places where antibiotics cannot reach. It is quite fascinating actually how these things without many genes are so clever. It takes time, months, to kill enough of them to make a difference in how you feel.
Much of the time your antibiotic isn't even doing anything. That's because the bugs can go into dormancy when they are under attack. Or, commonly a life cycle might involve 3 weeks of inactivity/hiding followed by 1 week of breeding. They have to come out sooner or later, and when they do, that's why you need to constantly be on the antibiotic. That's when you will get them. Or a pulsing strategy is cool....allow 36 hours to go by without any meds, they will sense safety and come out of hiding, and then take your dose. Wham. The survivors will quickly go back to defense, but you got a bunch of them. It's like that. It's a war.
If you are thinking you are going to get well with a short course of mino, I don't want to be the one to deliver you the bad news, but, I think you know what I mean.
In psychiatry we think in terms of weeks, days, hours. But to truly authentically eradicate a disease to make the symptoms go away, or find ways to support the body strongly enough that it can fight off whatever the problem is, we are talking months at a minimum, likely a couple years.
The flip side is psych drugs forever and you already know where that road goes.
Posted by SLS on January 9, 2014, at 17:40:59
In reply to Re: will seroquel kick in again after viruses have bee, posted by bleauberry on January 9, 2014, at 17:06:36
> First of all, if mino is going to help you, it is going to be months, not days or weeks.
You are SO wrong.
Minocycline can work within days or weeks to treat MDD, BD, and SCZ. The duration of a current study with schizophrenia will last 12 weeks. I hope they produce graphs for time/response results. For depression, I have seen two people respond within 7 days. How do you think minocycline works to facilitate such a rapid response?
- Scott
Posted by bleauberry on January 10, 2014, at 5:21:17
In reply to Re: will seroquel kick in again after viruses have bee, posted by SLS on January 9, 2014, at 17:40:59
Scott, you're thinking of something else. My fault. I steered you in the wrong direction with poor choice of wording. Sorry.
Nobody is wrong. There isn't enough known in this field for anybody to be wrong or right. Case by case.
As to the evidenced based science so many rely on, it is so full of flaws and bias and politics and economoics, generally, and the results are often cherry picked or "interpreted" in some way. It is not science and is not fact and is not duplicate-able (is that a word?) and is not consistently repeatable. Science is all of those. What we are talking about here at pbabble is not science. All of our studies are full of words like "may", "could", "suggests"....sorry, that is not science. That is opinion.
Anyway, sorry, got side tracked. What I meant to say is that for mino to truly heal that person of whatever is causing the symptoms is going to take much time. Benefits in terms of mood can be felt as early as day 1. For me it was day 2. But that is not the healing. That is just the introductory chapter. And that is a common expected reaction.
If someone takes mino for say a week, a month, whatever short time, and their depression goes away and stays away, cool! I am sure it happens. Why? Because things are so complicated and mysterious, it can happen and we may never know exactly why. Was it a bug thing? Was it an inflammation thing? Was it a gene thing? What was it that mino did? Was it a combination of stuff? And if it did work that way, why not use that as first line instead of prozac? So many questions.
Anyway, if someone has a hidden stealth infection or some hidden inflammation (same thing pretty much) mino stands a really good chance of helping them feel better. An early positive response is very common. In Lyme we call it the honeymoon period. It can be quite profound. I experienced it myself except on doxy, about 2 weeks in, depression completely gone, 20 years of suffering completely gone. Of course, it aint that simple, and that was not the end of the story. And won't be for most of us either.
Early respons expected. The true repair and healing takes months. Don't confuse symptom resolution with disease resolution. That's what I meant to say.
The scientists can keep their data it is not of much use when examined closely under a microscope. Too many suggestions and opinions and interpretations and mays and maybes. I just go with what works and we'll figure it out someday but right now it's not important....just get the patient feeling better is plenty good enough for now! imo
> > First of all, if mino is going to help you, it is going to be months, not days or weeks.
>
> You are SO wrong.
>
> Minocycline can work within days or weeks to treat MDD, BD, and SCZ. The duration of a current study with schizophrenia will last 12 weeks. I hope they produce graphs for time/response results. For depression, I have seen two people respond within 7 days. How do you think minocycline works to facilitate such a rapid response?
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on January 10, 2014, at 5:35:14
In reply to Re: will seroquel kick in again after viruses have bee, posted by bleauberry on January 10, 2014, at 5:21:17
How much minocycline are you taking?
How would you compare minocycline with doxycline in the treatment of mental illness?
- Scott
Posted by bleauberry on January 10, 2014, at 12:33:21
In reply to Re: will seroquel kick in again after viruses have bee » bleauberry, posted by SLS on January 10, 2014, at 5:35:14
> How much minocycline are you taking?
I don't take Mino and never said I was on it. ???
>
> How would you compare minocycline with doxycline in the treatment of mental illness?I don't have the experience of this in my own journeys to be able to answer that question. I don't know. I would think either is good. Folks here know more about Mino than I do, and from what I have seen it does appear to have some side mechanisms that differ from doxy in ways that may potentially be more helpful in depression.
I can say I think Mino is more potent as an antibiotic than Doxy is. I had some pretty hard Herxes with Doxy, but nothing like the nuclear bomb Herxes I had on Mino. I do know that in the infected world, Mino sometimes has to be started as low as 25mg once every 2 days because it is so strong. Doxy is much easier to start. Maybe Doxy is a lesser spectrum compared to Mino? Dunno. I think Mino is better at intracellular action than Doxy is. That would explain the heavier Herxing.
Anyway, good question, but I don't know.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on January 10, 2014, at 13:22:48
In reply to Re: will seroquel kick in again after viruses have bee » SLS, posted by bleauberry on January 10, 2014, at 12:33:21
> > How much minocycline are you taking?
>
> I don't take Mino and never said I was on it. ???Oops. My bad.
I thought I had read that further up the board. Sorry.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on January 11, 2014, at 6:52:17
In reply to Re: will seroquel kick in again after viruses have bee » bleauberry, posted by SLS on January 10, 2014, at 13:22:48
> > > How much minocycline are you taking?
> > I don't take Mino and never said I was on it. ???
> I thought I had read that further up the board. Sorry.It seems that my apology was premature.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20140104/msgs/1058180.html
"Mino earlier in my journeys was just too strong and kicked me out of the game with massive Herx's. In that class"
> Oh, I see. You tried minocycline briefly, but did not like it, so you aborted your trial. Thus, while it may be true that you never SAID that you were on it, you had, in fact, been on it.
As an aside, how did you determine that you experienced a Herxheimer reaction? What species of pathogen was lysed?
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on January 11, 2014, at 22:21:29
In reply to Re: will seroquel kick in again after viruses have bee » SLS, posted by SLS on January 11, 2014, at 6:52:17
The difference between Minocycline and Doxycycline is that mino crosses the blood brain barrier and doxy doesn't. Phillipa
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