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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alchemy on March 8, 2013, at 20:22:04
I was wondering if anyone has tried this, is it possible, thoughts?
Dopamine, dopamine, and everything else. But I did a search about "time perception" and it seems to also be related to low dopamine. (time perception probs can be in add & parkinsons) I have always seemed to have huge issues with time moving sooo slow. Of course part of this is the depression piece, anhedonia, etc. Ritalin can make time go by faster but can screw me up in the long term.
Mirapex/Requip - I have only heard these drugs mentioned a few times and only from this board. I would probably have to gun my pdoc down to try it. But it looks like sedation is often a side effect. I did get my pdoc to get out of his comfort zone and let me try amantadine (I can tell I am his most tx resistant patient). I think I had little energy while trying amantadine. So..I wondered about combining it with Provigil/Modafinal to combat the fatigue. And I decided I actually like Provigil for the most part on my second go-around.
I had some leftover Provigil samples from 3 years ago and gave them another try because I think the first trial was actually confused with other hormone factors. This time I think it is something that actually helped a tiny bit. Funny how it seems to only have about a 4-6 hour effect for me and then my energy can swing the other way. But it is also stimulating (increases anxiety). And I still have my depression, lack of motivation, anhedonia. It is just very slightly less (at least in the last week).
I don't know if my insurance would cover the expensive provigil, or my pdoc would let me take the combo, or mirapex would even help. It's just a new option when I supposedly don't have anymore.
Posted by bleauberry on March 9, 2013, at 9:26:57
In reply to Provigl and Mirapex Combo?, posted by alchemy on March 8, 2013, at 20:22:04
Time perception could also be a hundred other things.
I've never seen anyone get promising results with mirapex. It usually caused more problems than not, and messed up the whole dopamine thing even worse than it was. There are scattered cases in medical literature where mirapex helped in depression. Never actually witnessed it myself, either here or anywhere else.
We don't have a whole lot of options if we want to target dopamine. Stimulants, dlpa, tyrosine, B's, rhodiola, a few other herbs. At the right dose, some of the antipsychotics, for example low dose abilify or low dose amisulpride. Sometimes it works backwards from the way we think, in which an antipsychotic improved dopamine symptoms instead of making them worse. But if dopamine is suspect, they all need to be tried singularly and in combinations with each other. To rule them in or rule them out. No other way. Armchair theory does not work.
Here's another angle to think about. What if your dopamine is fine, and your dopamine circuits are fine? What if, instead, the problem is that there is some other substance, molecule, that attaches itself to the dopamine receptor....so your own dopamine is crowded out by competition? Or what if some other substance attaches itself to the dopamine itself, so that it cannot land and dock at its intended site?
Why do the moods of lyme patients improve when their bacterial load is reduced? Or any other infectious disease? It's because the toxins....those substances I alluded to above....were reduced, so our own neurotransmitters could resume normal business.
There's more to this stuff than the simple psychiatric theory stuff we tend to get bogged down in.
Posted by alchemy on March 9, 2013, at 13:46:48
In reply to Re: Provigl and Mirapex Combo?, posted by bleauberry on March 9, 2013, at 9:26:57
> Time perception could also be a hundred other things.
>
> I've never seen anyone get promising results with mirapex. It usually caused more problems than not, and messed up the whole dopamine thing even worse than it was. There are scattered cases in medical literature where mirapex helped in depression. Never actually witnessed it myself, either here or anywhere else.
>
> We don't have a whole lot of options if we want to target dopamine. Stimulants, dlpa, tyrosine, B's, rhodiola, a few other herbs. At the right dose, some of the antipsychotics, for example low dose abilify or low dose amisulpride. Sometimes it works backwards from the way we think, in which an antipsychotic improved dopamine symptoms instead of making them worse. But if dopamine is suspect, they all need to be tried singularly and in combinations with each other. To rule them in or rule them out. No other way. Armchair theory does not work.
>
> Here's another angle to think about. What if your dopamine is fine, and your dopamine circuits are fine? What if, instead, the problem is that there is some other substance, molecule, that attaches itself to the dopamine receptor....so your own dopamine is crowded out by competition? Or what if some other substance attaches itself to the dopamine itself, so that it cannot land and dock at its intended site?
>
> Why do the moods of lyme patients improve when their bacterial load is reduced? Or any other infectious disease? It's because the toxins....those substances I alluded to above....were reduced, so our own neurotransmitters could resume normal business.
>
> There's more to this stuff than the simple psychiatric theory stuff we tend to get bogged down in.Thank you bleuberry. It is good to get more info on mirapex before I try it. My circuitry is so easily screwed up and becomes even worse than it already is. It is so true that everything is so complicated and is even harder to figure out, and we are all different. One process can screw up another. Enzymes that make the chemicals, receptors, transmission, etc. It will be amazing if science ever gets it all figured out.
Posted by poser938 on March 9, 2013, at 15:31:46
In reply to Provigl and Mirapex Combo?, posted by alchemy on March 8, 2013, at 20:22:04
I like bleauberrys way of thinking when it comes to psych meds.
Anyway, I had exoerience with Mirapex in 2009. It definitely wasn't worth it. I had mild anhedonia before starting it, while I was on it, for about a month all it did was make me more sensitive to touch (if you know what I mean). Zero effect on my mood or energy. Not anthing like normal dopamine meds such as adderall or ritalin.
But after that month suddenly my anhedonia was made MUCH worse by Mirapex. And now over 3 years later I havent recovered from ths effect.
Posted by poser938 on March 9, 2013, at 15:44:21
In reply to Re: Provigl and Mirapex Combo? » bleauberry, posted by alchemy on March 9, 2013, at 13:46:48
I only feel comfortable suggesting more natural solutions to mood problems because of my past experience with meds such as Mirapex. I know pharmaceutical meds are much more proven to have a profound effect on brain chemistry, but this has been the problem for me.
But I would say to forget the Mirapex, keep the Provigil and maybe add the precursor to dopamine in the brain, Tyrosine.
Also, right now I'm taking Maca root. Even though it is not a pharamceutical, there have been a few clinical trials done on it. It has been shown to help with energy and even libido in some.
I can definitely say it does give me more energy. The first few days it was extremely obvious, but after that it has been much more subtle.
This is the end of the thread.
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