![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by schleprock on March 3, 2013, at 14:06:31
In reply to Re: drugs are safe, posted by Dr. Bob on March 2, 2013, at 17:43:07
> > Benzene rings are not the same thing as benzene by itself. Please stop the scare disinformation.
>
> Hi, everyone,
>
> I brought these posts together because they seemed to me to center on the idea that there's no need to feel scared. Drugs are safe.
>
> I'd like to reserve this thread for those who share that feeling.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
> PS: Others may of course feel scared of drugs. That's a valid feeling, too, and I welcome posts about that. Please direct them to:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20130222/msgs/1039362.html
>
> I've also redirected posts about feeling scared of Christians to:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20130223/msgs/1039352.html
>
> and those about never dying to:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20101230/msgs/1039356.htmlI think Lou should just be given his own board by now. Maybe where the neurotransmitter one used to be.
Posted by Lou PIlder on March 3, 2013, at 14:06:31
In reply to Re: drugs are safe, posted by CamW on March 3, 2013, at 10:28:10
> I would like to add something to Dr. Bob's comments on the safety of medications.
>
> They are generally safe. They have been rigorously tested prior to being made available for sale and ongoing post-marketing surveillance is done. This is where problems can arise, as seen with drugs like Vioxx.
>
> One should not be "scared" of medications, but everyone should respect them. They can cause problems in individuals due to an individual's genetic make-up and disorder that they may have.
>
> Many different disorders present with similar symptoms. The cause of the disorder may never be known, but with trial and error, your doctor usually can find a medication or combination of medications that will allow on to be able to live a relatively "normal" life within the parameters of their disorder.
>
> It sucks to be burdened with a psychiatric disorder, but most people are able to live a productive life with the help of medications and counselling.
>
> Just remember to respect medication, but not to fear them. Do not make changes on your own. Always do so on the advise of your doctor. You need someone with a knowledge of the actions of the medications, and someone with an outside perspective of how the medications changes are affecting you; someone who can monitor your reactions to the changes.
>
> I hope that this is of some help. - CamFriends,
Cam W wrote,[...they (psychiatric drugs) are *generally* safe...They have been rigorously tested...they may cause problems in individuals due to an individual's genetic make-up and disorder...with trial and error, your doctor can usually find a medication or combination of medications...do not make changes on your own...].
I am unsure as to what CamW is wanting others to think when they read the post here. If you would like to discuss this, please via email since this thread is now resticted to only particular responses.
A. What is meant by *generally* safe?
B. What constitutes *rigorous* testing?
C. What are the *problems* that they may cause?
D. What constitutes that doctors can *usually* find?
E. How could one's genetic make-up be known before the drugs are given, if the genetic make-up can be corrolated with reactions to the drug?
F. If trial and error is used in prescribing these mind-altering drugs, how could one know if or if not (redacted by respondent)?
G. in,[...do not make changes on your own...], why is there (redacted by respondent)
Lou
Posted by Phillipa on March 3, 2013, at 16:03:00
In reply to Lou's request-owebulscht » CamW, posted by Lou PIlder on March 3, 2013, at 14:06:31
Didn't Dr Bob have a talk with you? Phillipa
Posted by joe schmoe on March 3, 2013, at 21:30:24
In reply to Lou's request-owebulscht » CamW, posted by Lou PIlder on March 3, 2013, at 14:06:31
So is anyone else getting a kick out of trying to figure out what Lou's response codes are in the subject line? Here are a few I've seen, and my interpretations:
owebulscht - "Oh b*llsh*t"
inorgnkbnz? - "inorganic benzene?"
nytroughbz - Nitrobenzene (?)
huzonpherst - "Who's on first"
psumperspktv - ?
tockpsik - toxic
eydownoizonthird - "I don't know who's on third"
bhnzeadeth - "Benzene death"
azperyn - aspirin
hynune - "High Noon"
duenhod - ?
kowboyz - "(Momma don't let your babies grow up to be pill taking) Cowboys"
Posted by schleprock on March 4, 2013, at 1:36:02
In reply to Re: Lou's codes, posted by joe schmoe on March 3, 2013, at 21:30:24
> So is anyone else getting a kick out of trying to figure out what Lou's response codes are in the subject line? Here are a few I've seen, and my interpretations:
>
>
> owebulscht - "Oh b*llsh*t"
> inorgnkbnz? - "inorganic benzene?"
> nytroughbz - Nitrobenzene (?)
> huzonpherst - "Who's on first"
> psumperspktv - ?
> tockpsik - toxic
> eydownoizonthird - "I don't know who's on third"
> bhnzeadeth - "Benzene death"
> azperyn - aspirin
> hynune - "High Noon"
> duenhod - ?
> kowboyz - "(Momma don't let your babies grow up to be pill taking) Cowboys"
>psumperspktv is "some perspective"
duenhod might be "do not"?
Posted by Lou PIlder on March 4, 2013, at 15:51:56
In reply to Re: Lou's codes, posted by joe schmoe on March 3, 2013, at 21:30:24
> So is anyone else getting a kick out of trying to figure out what Lou's response codes are in the subject line? Here are a few I've seen, and my interpretations:
>
>
> owebulscht - "Oh b*llsh*t"
> inorgnkbnz? - "inorganic benzene?"
> nytroughbz - Nitrobenzene (?)
> huzonpherst - "Who's on first"
> psumperspktv - ?
> tockpsik - toxic
> eydownoizonthird - "I don't know who's on third"
> bhnzeadeth - "Benzene death"
> azperyn - aspirin
> hynune - "High Noon"
> duenhod - ?
> kowboyz - "(Momma don't let your babies grow up to be pill taking) Cowboys"
>
joe and schleprock,
Lou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfmvkO5x6Ng
Posted by schleprock on March 4, 2013, at 17:00:05
In reply to Lou's reply to joe schmoe and schleprock, posted by Lou PIlder on March 4, 2013, at 15:51:56
> > So is anyone else getting a kick out of trying to figure out what Lou's response codes are in the subject line? Here are a few I've seen, and my interpretations:
> >
> >
> > owebulscht - "Oh b*llsh*t"
> > inorgnkbnz? - "inorganic benzene?"
> > nytroughbz - Nitrobenzene (?)
> > huzonpherst - "Who's on first"
> > psumperspktv - ?
> > tockpsik - toxic
> > eydownoizonthird - "I don't know who's on third"
> > bhnzeadeth - "Benzene death"
> > azperyn - aspirin
> > hynune - "High Noon"
> > duenhod - ?
> > kowboyz - "(Momma don't let your babies grow up to be pill taking) Cowboys"
> >
> joe and schleprock,
> Lou
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfmvkO5x6NgThe link demonstrates the exact kind of conversations those on mind-altering drugs have.
Posted by CamW on March 4, 2013, at 18:41:40
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to joe schmoe and schleprock » Lou PIlder, posted by schleprock on March 4, 2013, at 17:00:05
> The link demonstrates the exact kind of conversations those on mind-altering drugs have.
Ahh... schlep, that takes me back. Just glad no one recorded those conversations. - Cam
Posted by SLS on March 5, 2013, at 16:52:30
In reply to Lou's reply-bhnzeadeth » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou PIlder on March 3, 2013, at 9:00:11
> Yes, I am saying what you are hearing, in that drugs with benzene rings can be dangerous. This is all because benzene causes cancer.
For anyone else who is reading this thread, I would offer that these statements are, in fact, untrue, and that they neglect all of biological science in their making.
For the sake of perspective, it can be said that even pure water is deadly if consumed in large enough quantities. (It produces hyponatremia).
Benzene is a simple organic compound comprised of a specific carbon ring structure, sometimes known as a benzene ring or an aromatic ring. By itself, the benzene molecule is carcinogenic. However, when the central aromatic ring is incorporated into the larger molecules of life, it acts to support untold biological functions. In fact, all of life depends on aromatic (benzene) rings. Aromatic rings are found in several amino acids. These include phenylalanine, tryptophan, tyrosine, and histidine, all of which are incorporated into structural proteins, enzymes, and neurotransmitters.
- Scott
Posted by Emme_V2 on March 5, 2013, at 16:52:32
In reply to Benzene rings are necessary for life., posted by SLS on March 4, 2013, at 0:18:46
> > Yes, I am saying what you are hearing, in that drugs with benzene rings can be dangerous. This is all because benzene causes cancer.
>
> For anyone else who is reading this thread, I would offer that these statements are, in fact, untrue, and that they neglect all of biological science in their making.
>
> For the sake of perspective, it can be said that even pure water is deadly if consumed in large enough quantities. (It produces hyponatremia).
>
> Benzene is a simple organic compound comprised of a specific carbon ring structure, sometimes known as a benzene ring or an aromatic ring. By itself, the benzene molecule is carcinogenic. However, when the central aromatic ring is incorporated into the larger molecules of life, it acts to support untold biological functions. In fact, all of life depends on aromatic (benzene) rings. Aromatic rings are found in several amino acids. These include phenylalanine, tryptophan, tyrosine, and histidine, all of which are incorporated into structural proteins, enzymes, and neurotransmitters.
>
>
> - ScottGood points, Scott. If I may add, let's clarify terms. "Benzene ring" is a different term than "benzene." Benzene has the chemical formula C6H6. A quick look at the molecular structure of, say, serotonin or melatonin shows that some of the hydrogen atoms in the ring structure have been substituted with other atoms or functional groups. The formulas for these molecules is far more complex than C6H6, as are their structures, which also contain a pyrrole aromatic ring and a couple of functional groups.
I believe the confusion for Lou lies in the fact that the therm "benzene ring" contains the word "benzene." Now what if scientists had chosen to name to instead name the benzene ring "carbon-based aromatic ring"? It would have been C-BAR. Then I suspect this discussion would not even be taking place.
Posted by CamW on March 5, 2013, at 16:52:34
In reply to Lou's reply-nonotwun? » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou PIlder on March 4, 2013, at 7:21:00
> Mr Hsiung,
> To determine as to if all mind-altering drugs are dangerous or not, one could use the generally accepted meaning of {dangerous} to make that conclusion, which is {likely to cause harm or cause injury}.
> One way to prove, as in this case, could be to show one such in the class of psychotropic drugs that does not at all cause any harm or injury. I know of none.
> For as the sun goes from the East to the West, all of he psychotropic drugs that I know of can cause harm or injury in that they can either induce suicidal and/or homocidal thoughts ending in the taker of the drug killing themselves and/or others, or inducing diabetes, or tardive dyskinesia, or heart problems, or liver problems, or other organ problems, or huge weight gain, or sexual dysfunction, or blood disease, or eye problems, or depression of the central nervous system, or tardvie dystonia, or addiction, or a host of other harmful or injurious outcomes to not only the taker of the drug, but to innocent bystnders as a result of the taker of the drug going on shooting rsmpage and even killing their own children and mother or spouse.
> Now I ask for a name of a psychotropic drug that can not do any of those things to be posted here, then I could conclude that all psychotropic drugs can cause harm or injury if one is not found to be exempt from what the list of injuries and harm that I have posted here.
> Lou Pilder
>
>Lou, sir:
Living life is a matter of percentages. Far more people are help by psychotropics than hindered by them.
It is sad that you have to resort to using crudely-veilled scare tactics on a vulnerable population when you do not have the science to back your desires.
What is you agenda?
Are you just trolling?- Cam
Posted by tensor on March 5, 2013, at 16:52:37
In reply to Re: Lou's reply » Lou PIlder, posted by CamW on March 4, 2013, at 9:10:54
Posted by CamW on March 5, 2013, at 16:52:39
In reply to +1 (nm) » CamW, posted by tensor on March 4, 2013, at 12:27:43
Posted by Lou PIlder on March 5, 2013, at 16:52:42
In reply to Re: Lou's reply » Lou PIlder, posted by CamW on March 4, 2013, at 9:10:54
> > Mr Hsiung,
> > To determine as to if all mind-altering drugs are dangerous or not, one could use the generally accepted meaning of {dangerous} to make that conclusion, which is {likely to cause harm or cause injury}.
> > One way to prove, as in this case, could be to show one such in the class of psychotropic drugs that does not at all cause any harm or injury. I know of none.
> > For as the sun goes from the East to the West, all of he psychotropic drugs that I know of can cause harm or injury in that they can either induce suicidal and/or homocidal thoughts ending in the taker of the drug killing themselves and/or others, or inducing diabetes, or tardive dyskinesia, or heart problems, or liver problems, or other organ problems, or huge weight gain, or sexual dysfunction, or blood disease, or eye problems, or depression of the central nervous system, or tardvie dystonia, or addiction, or a host of other harmful or injurious outcomes to not only the taker of the drug, but to innocent bystnders as a result of the taker of the drug going on shooting rsmpage and even killing their own children and mother or spouse.
> > Now I ask for a name of a psychotropic drug that can not do any of those things to be posted here, then I could conclude that all psychotropic drugs can cause harm or injury if one is not found to be exempt from what the list of injuries and harm that I have posted here.
> > Lou Pilder
> >
> >
>
> Lou, sir:
>
> Living life is a matter of percentages. Far more people are help by psychotropics than hindered by them.
>
> It is sad that you have to resort to using crudely-veilled scare tactics on a vulnerable population when you do not have the science to back your desires.
>
> What is you agenda?
> Are you just trolling?
>
> - Cam
>
> Friends,
It is written here,[...Living life is a matter of percentages...more people are help(ed)..than hindered...scare tactics...vulnerable population...not have the science to back your..].
Posted by schleprock on March 5, 2013, at 22:02:03
In reply to Lou's reply-ghmblurzrewen » CamW, posted by Lou PIlder on March 5, 2013, at 16:52:42
Friends,
In order to continue the discussion, please visit the following:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xayd1c0wtOE
The Benzodiazepines themselves even admit their dangerous.
-Lou (via schleprock)
Posted by joe schmoe on March 6, 2013, at 7:02:10
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-loopuhtmiiuhptwodiz, posted by schleprock on March 5, 2013, at 22:02:03
Posted by sigismund on March 8, 2013, at 16:12:52
In reply to Lou's request -dayngueruz? » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou PIlder on March 5, 2013, at 21:08:47
Lou, is there some reason you never give a direct link?
Posted by Moishe Pipik on March 8, 2013, at 16:13:10
In reply to Re: mind-altering drugs are dangerous, posted by Dr. Bob on March 5, 2013, at 16:58:45
>
> PS: Everybody else, please refrain from replying while I try to understand what Lou's saying.How very quixotic.......
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.