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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gilmourr on September 19, 2012, at 15:57:06
At 60 mg (3.5 weeks) I felt like sh*t, my mood sucked, started getting some anxiety..
I dropped it 9 days ago and went back on 45 mg (45 mg makes me have mild depression and mild anxiety, very easy to handle personally).
FOR SOME REASON, AFTER 9 DAYS I STILL HAVE SH*T 60 MG SIDE EFFECTS, MY MOOD SUCKS AND I HAVE THIS ANXIETY THAT STARTS 2 HOURS AFTER I WAKE UP.
WTF IS GOING ON. WHEN WILL THE 60 MG CONCENTRATION GTFO OF MY BODY, I HAVE THINGS TO DO LATER THIS MONTH (28th,29th,30th).
AHHHHHHHH
Posted by gilmourr on September 19, 2012, at 16:02:01
In reply to Nardil is f*ck*ng me, WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!!!!, posted by gilmourr on September 19, 2012, at 15:57:06
IM THINKING THE MAO THAT WAS INHIBITED FROM THE STUPID 60 MG NEEDS TO REGENERATE.
I HAVE 20 DAYS IN TOTAL. WILL IT REGENERATE BY THEN? GOD PLZ LET IT. WHAT ELSE COULD IT BE.
Posted by ChicagoKat on September 19, 2012, at 16:26:31
In reply to Nardil is f*ck*ng me, WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!!!!, posted by gilmourr on September 19, 2012, at 15:57:06
> At 60 mg (3.5 weeks) I felt like sh*t, my mood sucked, started getting some anxiety..
>
> I dropped it 9 days ago and went back on 45 mg (45 mg makes me have mild depression and mild anxiety, very easy to handle personally).
>
> FOR SOME REASON, AFTER 9 DAYS I STILL HAVE SH*T 60 MG SIDE EFFECTS, MY MOOD SUCKS AND I HAVE THIS ANXIETY THAT STARTS 2 HOURS AFTER I WAKE UP.
>
> WTF IS GOING ON. WHEN WILL THE 60 MG CONCENTRATION GTFO OF MY BODY, I HAVE THINGS TO DO LATER THIS MONTH (28th,29th,30th).
>
> AHHHHHHHHI think you are right; that the enzymes that were inhibited when you were on the higher dose of 60mg will need time to become uninhibited. I have no idea how long this will take. Also, I hate to say it, things may not change even though you've lowered the dose a bit...Nardil is a drug that is relatively rapidly increased in dose so that the enzymes can more quickly become inhibited, thus leading to a quicker therapeutic effect. Once this higher dose/therapeutic effect is reached, many docs decrease the dose to handle the newly formulated enzymes, knowing that the bulk of the existing enzymes is inhibited. So a decrease from 60mg to 45mg may have little impact. I hope this makes sense. Just ask if you have questions.
The main thing is I am so sorry you are going through hell. Have you talked to your doctor? Maybe Nardil is not the answer for you. At any rate, hopefully he/she can prescribe some drugs to help you deal with your symptoms.
I hope you feel better soon,
Kat
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 19, 2012, at 16:28:04
In reply to Re: Nardil is f*ck*ng me, WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!!!!, posted by gilmourr on September 19, 2012, at 16:02:01
Maybe it isnt thenardil that changed the way you're feeling, it might have been coincidental that you began feeling worse at about the time of thedose increase. MOA will regenerate within about 10 days.
Posted by gilmourr on September 19, 2012, at 16:33:45
In reply to Re: Nardil is f*ck*ng me, WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!!!! » gilmourr, posted by ChicagoKat on September 19, 2012, at 16:26:31
> > At 60 mg (3.5 weeks) I felt like sh*t, my mood sucked, started getting some anxiety..
> >
> > I dropped it 9 days ago and went back on 45 mg (45 mg makes me have mild depression and mild anxiety, very easy to handle personally).
> >
> > FOR SOME REASON, AFTER 9 DAYS I STILL HAVE SH*T 60 MG SIDE EFFECTS, MY MOOD SUCKS AND I HAVE THIS ANXIETY THAT STARTS 2 HOURS AFTER I WAKE UP.
> >
> > WTF IS GOING ON. WHEN WILL THE 60 MG CONCENTRATION GTFO OF MY BODY, I HAVE THINGS TO DO LATER THIS MONTH (28th,29th,30th).
> >
> > AHHHHHHHH
>
> I think you are right; that the enzymes that were inhibited when you were on the higher dose of 60mg will need time to become uninhibited. I have no idea how long this will take. Also, I hate to say it, things may not change even though you've lowered the dose a bit...Nardil is a drug that is relatively rapidly increased in dose so that the enzymes can more quickly become inhibited, thus leading to a quicker therapeutic effect. Once this higher dose/therapeutic effect is reached, many docs decrease the dose to handle the newly formulated enzymes, knowing that the bulk of the existing enzymes is inhibited. So a decrease from 60mg to 45mg may have little impact. I hope this makes sense. Just ask if you have questions.
>
> The main thing is I am so sorry you are going through hell. Have you talked to your doctor? Maybe Nardil is not the answer for you. At any rate, hopefully he/she can prescribe some drugs to help you deal with your symptoms.
> I hope you feel better soon,
> Kat
>
>Sorry that doesn't make sense. I was on 45 mg of Nardil for 8 weeks and it was the same after 3.5 weeks. I never ramped up the dose. I started at 45 mg the entire time. If I go lower, I don't see why 45 mg wouldn't work exactly the same.
If you're saying it needs to be rapidly increased to help me, then no way. Because I was doing fine on 45 mg, and 4-5 days after I start 60 mg I started getting more depression. I expected side effects, but I shouldn't have more depression.
MAOI work by getting the RIGHT LEVEL OF MAO. TOO MUCH MAO OR TOO LITTLE CAUSES ISSUES. Mental health is not about just going to extremes, it's about balancing it out correctly.
Posted by gilmourr on September 19, 2012, at 16:36:40
In reply to Re: Nardil is f*ck*ng me, WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!!!!, posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 19, 2012, at 16:28:04
> Maybe it isnt thenardil that changed the way you're feeling, it might have been coincidental that you began feeling worse at about the time of thedose increase. MOA will regenerate within about 10 days.
Sorry Jono I can't believe that. My depression didn't waver once while I was on 45 mg for 8 weeks. It worked after 5 days and stayed the same.
Let me ask you this.. if I had NO urinary retention and NO ORTHO HYPOTENSION at 45 mg, then once these side effects that started on 60 mg go away then I'll be back at the right concentration I'm guessing. I wouldn't keep these side effects would I if I went to 45 mg and never had them at all at 45 for 8 weeks.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 19, 2012, at 19:16:25
In reply to Re: Nardil is f*ck*ng me, WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!!!!, posted by gilmourr on September 19, 2012, at 16:36:40
All you can do is suck it up for 2 weeks and wait and see what happens.
The effects due to to hydrazine molecule should be gone within 2-3 days, the effects due to MAO inhibition should be gone within 10-14 days..... if the effects persist beyond that, reducing the dose to 45mg isnt your answer
Posted by schleprock on September 19, 2012, at 21:50:44
In reply to Re: Nardil is f*ck*ng me, WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!!!!, posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 19, 2012, at 19:16:25
It is my understanding that MAOIs have very strict dietary requirements. Have you been watching what you're eating?
Posted by gilmourr on September 19, 2012, at 22:48:33
In reply to Re: Nardil is f*ck*ng me, WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!!!!, posted by schleprock on September 19, 2012, at 21:50:44
> It is my understanding that MAOIs have very strict dietary requirements. Have you been watching what you're eating?
dietary restrictions and Nardil have nothing to do with depression and anxiety unless I have a hypertensive reaction.
My BP is 110/75 from 140/95 normally. MAOI's don't cause NE to go up from tyramine. That's a semi-rare condition, like 1 in 40 people have an intolerance to the foods.
Posted by SLS on September 20, 2012, at 1:14:45
In reply to Re: Nardil is f*ck*ng me, WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!!!!, posted by gilmourr on September 19, 2012, at 22:48:33
Tyramine by itself can raise blood pressure. It's called the tyramine challenge or tyramine pressor effect.
Where did you get the 1 in 40 statistic?
I maintain a certain amount of vigilence in my diet out of respect for the potential for hypertensive reactions to occur.
- Scott
Posted by enndub on September 20, 2012, at 13:28:59
In reply to Re: Nardil is f*ck*ng me, WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!!!!, posted by gilmourr on September 19, 2012, at 16:33:45
> > > At 60 mg (3.5 weeks) I felt like sh*t, my mood sucked, started getting some anxiety..
> > >
> > > I dropped it 9 days ago and went back on 45 mg (45 mg makes me have mild depression and mild anxiety, very easy to handle personally).
> > >
> > > FOR SOME REASON, AFTER 9 DAYS I STILL HAVE SH*T 60 MG SIDE EFFECTS, MY MOOD SUCKS AND I HAVE THIS ANXIETY THAT STARTS 2 HOURS AFTER I WAKE UP.
> > >
> > > WTF IS GOING ON. WHEN WILL THE 60 MG CONCENTRATION GTFO OF MY BODY, I HAVE THINGS TO DO LATER THIS MONTH (28th,29th,30th).
> > >
> > > AHHHHHHHH
> >
> > I think you are right; that the enzymes that were inhibited when you were on the higher dose of 60mg will need time to become uninhibited. I have no idea how long this will take. Also, I hate to say it, things may not change even though you've lowered the dose a bit...Nardil is a drug that is relatively rapidly increased in dose so that the enzymes can more quickly become inhibited, thus leading to a quicker therapeutic effect. Once this higher dose/therapeutic effect is reached, many docs decrease the dose to handle the newly formulated enzymes, knowing that the bulk of the existing enzymes is inhibited. So a decrease from 60mg to 45mg may have little impact. I hope this makes sense. Just ask if you have questions.
> >
> > The main thing is I am so sorry you are going through hell. Have you talked to your doctor? Maybe Nardil is not the answer for you. At any rate, hopefully he/she can prescribe some drugs to help you deal with your symptoms.
> > I hope you feel better soon,
> > Kat
> >
> >
>
> Sorry that doesn't make sense. I was on 45 mg of Nardil for 8 weeks and it was the same after 3.5 weeks. I never ramped up the dose. I started at 45 mg the entire time. If I go lower, I don't see why 45 mg wouldn't work exactly the same.
>
> If you're saying it needs to be rapidly increased to help me, then no way. Because I was doing fine on 45 mg, and 4-5 days after I start 60 mg I started getting more depression. I expected side effects, but I shouldn't have more depression.
>
> MAOI work by getting the RIGHT LEVEL OF MAO. TOO MUCH MAO OR TOO LITTLE CAUSES ISSUES. Mental health is not about just going to extremes, it's about balancing it out correctly.
>I think she means that once you went up to 60, a maintenance dose of 45mg might keep you at the same level of MAO inhibition as you have less MAO to metabolize the Nardil. Maybe try dropping down to 30 until side effects subside and then bringing it back up?
Posted by ChicagoKat on September 20, 2012, at 15:04:37
In reply to Re: Nardil is f*ck*ng me, WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!!!!, posted by enndub on September 20, 2012, at 13:28:59
> > > > At 60 mg (3.5 weeks) I felt like sh*t, my mood sucked, started getting some anxiety..
> > > >
> > > > I dropped it 9 days ago and went back on 45 mg (45 mg makes me have mild depression and mild anxiety, very easy to handle personally).
> > > >
> > > > FOR SOME REASON, AFTER 9 DAYS I STILL HAVE SH*T 60 MG SIDE EFFECTS, MY MOOD SUCKS AND I HAVE THIS ANXIETY THAT STARTS 2 HOURS AFTER I WAKE UP.
> > > >
> > > > WTF IS GOING ON. WHEN WILL THE 60 MG CONCENTRATION GTFO OF MY BODY, I HAVE THINGS TO DO LATER THIS MONTH (28th,29th,30th).
> > > >
> > > > AHHHHHHHH
> > >
> > > I think you are right; that the enzymes that were inhibited when you were on the higher dose of 60mg will need time to become uninhibited. I have no idea how long this will take. Also, I hate to say it, things may not change even though you've lowered the dose a bit...Nardil is a drug that is relatively rapidly increased in dose so that the enzymes can more quickly become inhibited, thus leading to a quicker therapeutic effect. Once this higher dose/therapeutic effect is reached, many docs decrease the dose to handle the newly formulated enzymes, knowing that the bulk of the existing enzymes is inhibited. So a decrease from 60mg to 45mg may have little impact. I hope this makes sense. Just ask if you have questions.
> > >
> > > The main thing is I am so sorry you are going through hell. Have you talked to your doctor? Maybe Nardil is not the answer for you. At any rate, hopefully he/she can prescribe some drugs to help you deal with your symptoms.
> > > I hope you feel better soon,
> > > Kat
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Sorry that doesn't make sense. I was on 45 mg of Nardil for 8 weeks and it was the same after 3.5 weeks. I never ramped up the dose. I started at 45 mg the entire time. If I go lower, I don't see why 45 mg wouldn't work exactly the same.
> >
> > If you're saying it needs to be rapidly increased to help me, then no way. Because I was doing fine on 45 mg, and 4-5 days after I start 60 mg I started getting more depression. I expected side effects, but I shouldn't have more depression.
> >
> > MAOI work by getting the RIGHT LEVEL OF MAO. TOO MUCH MAO OR TOO LITTLE CAUSES ISSUES. Mental health is not about just going to extremes, it's about balancing it out correctly.
> >
>
> I think she means that once you went up to 60, a maintenance dose of 45mg might keep you at the same level of MAO inhibition as you have less MAO to metabolize the Nardil. Maybe try dropping down to 30 until side effects subside and then bringing it back up?
>Thanks Endub, for clearing that up. I'd like to add that I in no way meant you should up your dose anymore and definitely not quickly. That's just something some docs do. I agree with Endub, that maybe you need to go to 30mg until you become stable and are able to increase the dose....and be sure to increase it very slowly. Again, I highly suggest you speak with your doctor and see what he/she has to say...not everyone can tolerate Nardil, and everyone has different doses that work best for them. Plus he/she can perhaps give you something to help with the bad side effects you are experiencing.
Kat
Posted by gilmourr on September 20, 2012, at 18:26:56
In reply to Re: Nardil is f*ck*ng me, WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!!!! » enndub, posted by ChicagoKat on September 20, 2012, at 15:04:37
I swear, I think you guys might be good luck.
I still had anxiety today but can tell it didn't require klonopin.
I haven't had a mood swing of moderate-severe depression today, I've just felt a little blue today instead.
Also, today is the first day I noticed that I start to urinate quicker. But I still have the ortho hypotension.
Hopefully over the week I level out and Nardil makes me relatively content and playful/happy at times again :) I'll update you guys
Posted by gilmourr on September 21, 2012, at 9:17:46
In reply to Re: Nardil is f*ck*ng me, WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!!!!, posted by gilmourr on September 20, 2012, at 18:26:56
Spoke too soon. The anxiety is much better I've found, I don't seem to have the feeling that my nerves are shot.
But I had another mood swing late at night around 1 AM which was pretty bad. Woke up today and I still feel rather depressed.
This is tough :/ but I'll stick it out. It's gotta be the MAO regenerating (2-3 weeks needed). On day 13 right now on 45 mg.
Any ideas for what to use/stay away from?
Currently I take klonopin 0.5 mg to help calm me down when I get depressed. I'm also thinking of using seroquel because I've been sleep deprived lately.
Posted by gilmourr on September 21, 2012, at 9:48:01
In reply to Re: Nardil is f*ck*ng me, WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!!!!, posted by gilmourr on September 21, 2012, at 9:17:46
Someone informed me also, because I'm taking biaxin an antibiotic, it is inhibiting CYP3A4.
This means that Nardil builds up in concentration if it is metabolized by 3A4 which is likely since many drugs are. If that's so, it might make me feel like I'm on 60 mg. Now that I'm off of the antibiotic it might start coming down..
Posted by phillipa on September 21, 2012, at 10:08:04
In reply to Re: Nardil is f*ck*ng me, WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!!!!, posted by gilmourr on September 21, 2012, at 9:48:01
Can I ask what you were on the biaxin for? I myself was on it for two years for chronic lymes. When I discontinued my mood dropped. And I lost taste and smell. Infection control doc thinks it's the biaxin I disagree as when on it felt fabulous. When you google the med it has a lot of side effects. Thankfully when on it I didn't have a computer. Phillipa
Posted by phidippus on September 22, 2012, at 1:41:41
In reply to Nardil is f*ck*ng me, WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!!!!, posted by gilmourr on September 19, 2012, at 15:57:06
Time to quit the Nardil.
Eric
Posted by gilmourr on September 24, 2012, at 22:49:26
In reply to Re: Nardil is f*ck*ng me, WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!!!! » gilmourr, posted by phidippus on September 22, 2012, at 1:41:41
Yeah, no. It's called it's balancing out from the sh*t 60 mg that f*ck*d my mood up.
I was on 45 mg for 8 weeks and felt fine, no side effects. I just was at 70%, I wanted 90%-100% so I pushed it higher. Now I'm back on 45 mg.
I've been on 45 mg since the 9th. But I was on an antibiotic until the 19th. So I can't tell really how long I've been off the 60 mg for.
All I know is that between 11 - 30 days is when my anxiety and depression return to 70%. I just don't know what day I'm on because of the antibiotic...
I used biaxin for bronchitis.
This is the end of the thread.
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