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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by CharlesRX on May 5, 2012, at 1:31:23
Hi!
I've look all over this boards for info about amisulpride experiences and evaluations for anxiety: social and/or generalized.
All I could find were reports on its effectiveness for dysthimia and/or depression.
I've been suffering from debilitating anxiety all my life (I'm 24). I know because I have never had any close friends, many acquaintances, but no close friends, plus I have selective mutism and panic attacks on social situations, and my heart races and I sweat just by anticipating going out of my house (but I'm not completely agoraphobic though).
I've been on zoloft, effexor, pristiq, prozac, luvox, wellbutrin, lexapro, remeron and strattera.
After that last one my psychiatrist told me we had run out of options with the modern and mainstream ones and we were trying tryciclics, so he put me on amitryptiline, but it made sleep 24 hrs the first day, it wasn't doing absolutely nothing after that so I gave up with AD, then he gave me Buspar, but didn't worked either. Neither did any antihistaminic (too many to list or even recall). Never had any side effects or withdrawal, AD's just didn't do nothing, they are like sugar pills for me.
Benzos worked wonders but couldn't stop because I became physically dependent on them and when I finally quit (cold turkey) I had severe withdrawal for about 4 months:
3 psychotic breaks, depersonalization, terror attacks, paranoia, headaches, muscle aches and cramps, diahrrea, nausea and vomiting, anorexia (lose 20 kg during those 4 months), spells of uncontrollable laughter, severe shaking and sweating and insomnia: stood awake for 50 hrs each time then passing out 2 hrs and then staying awake another 50.
I've seen 6 therapists, but half of them gave up on me, and I gave up on the other half after much time.
The only thing that ever worked for me was Lyrica, but at high doses (1200mg) but after a year it just simply stopped working, and hasn't ever since, not even pushing the dose further up.
About antipsychotics, I've been on risperdal, zyprexa, nosinan and geodon, but those drugs are just plain evil and refused treatment after the zyprexa made me gain 20 kg (was 70, now I weight 90) which I never lose again.
So I'm thinking about amisulpride, but I haven't heard much about its potential for anxiety. I only know it's advisable to start with 50mgs but got so many other questions: How does it feel when it works? Is it true the lower the dose, the better it feels for anxious people like me? How long should I wait to start feeling the positive effects? If I don't, should I lower the dose even more? How much of anxiolysis does it provide on a benzo based scale (only anxiolytics that I know and truly worked for me): %70 of a regular valium dose? %80 of a 2mg dose of klonopin?
Thanks for taking part of your time to read me, and to reply.
Any help will be really really appreciated. Thanks in advance.
CharlesRX.
Posted by Phillipa on May 5, 2012, at 10:37:01
In reply to Amisulpride for Anxiety (only), posted by CharlesRX on May 5, 2012, at 1:31:23
I'm beginning to think that anxiety gets less but in different ways the older you get. I've been on benzos over 30 years and take less now than in the beginning? Not that they work. But what does? Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on May 5, 2012, at 10:44:09
In reply to Amisulpride for Anxiety (only), posted by CharlesRX on May 5, 2012, at 1:31:23
When anxiety issues are not managed well by first line choices, that tells me the next place to look, and hardly ever is, is the adrenals. If cortisol is too low there will be a sort of anxiety that does not respond well to meds, and if cortisol is too high the anxiety is similar but usually responds a little better to meds. Either way, some rebalancing needs to be done. I am not aware of any meds that do that. Meds are only directed at symptoms not cause. There are botanical meds that do the job well. First choice would be rhodiola rosea, second choice eleuthero, third choice ashwaganda. or any combination of two of them. In my experience ashwaganda is the best for fastest anxiety knockdown, rhodiola is the best when depression is a coexisting issue but it takes more time to work, and eleuthero is a good one it just doesn't like me.
I have been on amisulpride several times. I did find it worked good for social anxiety but I'm not sure how well it would work with physical anxiety because I didn't really have much of that at the time. When it does work for anxiety, it really doesn't start to make a real difference until week 2 to 3. Prior to that it could actually stimulate things a little, but that passes and adjusts.
Dosage. The higher the dose you take the more calming it will be, just like any other antipsychotic basically. For depression, doses in literature are about 50mg but in the real world everyone I have communicated with agreed that was too high. Better doses have been 25mg once a day or even once every other day, and I've even had decent results from 12.5mg, though that dose is a little more stimulatory than calming.
I think amisulpride is worth a shot, it could work, but the main focus should be in a place you probably never suspected....adrenal herbs. You can do both at the same time. The herbs are more of a longterm healing and balancing thing that don't cover up symptoms but eliminate whatever is haywire causing them. In difficult to treat anxiety issues, that in my opinion is the most likely place to look and also the most unlikely place someone will look.
Posted by CharlesRX on May 6, 2012, at 0:13:36
In reply to Re: Amisulpride for Anxiety (only) » CharlesRX, posted by Phillipa on May 5, 2012, at 10:37:01
Phillipa:
Thank you very much for your input.
Benzos DEFINETILY work, they're just not feasible in the long run, and tend to worsen symptoms as time goes by.
Withdrawal and all those things I've been through, I appreciate them as body-building for the mind, but I'm certainly not immune to depression, anxiety or what not, so much that I'm trying to come up with some treatment to respond to my anxiety disorder, which has been complicated with severe depression in the last couple of weeks (I saw everything I did was so futile that I cut my wrists and hung myself in my bathroom, but didn't hit any veins, and used a towel as a noose so I was practically sitting on the floor). Right now I will consider ANY option, rather than suicide.Bleauberry:
You are right about considering an endrochine possibility, but I got a few exams 2 months ago, and unfortunately that had nothing to do with my problem. I say unfortunately because it would have been much simplier and given me a chance of a cure, or definite treatment.
Other than that, I have tried herbs and supplements:
Kava, Theanine, GABA, tryptophan and serotonin precursors, vitamins and cofactors such as B6 (pyridoxine), inositol, valerian, melatonin, several teas and infusions, all of them alone or in several combinations, among themselves, or with pharmacological drugs and even alcohol, to no avail.Thanks for your inputs!
This is just my second day on amisulpride, I have definitely felt a minor mood lift, anxiety is still there, but I have positive effects, and is too soon to say anything.
Will be reporting as days go by.
Looking forward for more advices or comments.
Regards!
Posted by CharlesRX on May 6, 2012, at 16:22:01
In reply to Re: Amisulpride for Anxiety (only), posted by bleauberry on May 5, 2012, at 10:44:09
> When anxiety issues are not managed well by first line choices, that tells me the next place to look, and hardly ever is, is the adrenals. If cortisol is too low there will be a sort of anxiety that does not respond well to meds, and if cortisol is too high the anxiety is similar but usually responds a little better to meds. Either way, some rebalancing needs to be done. I am not aware of any meds that do that. Meds are only directed at symptoms not cause. There are botanical meds that do the job well. First choice would be rhodiola rosea, second choice eleuthero, third choice ashwaganda. or any combination of two of them. In my experience ashwaganda is the best for fastest anxiety knockdown, rhodiola is the best when depression is a coexisting issue but it takes more time to work, and eleuthero is a good one it just doesn't like me.
>
> I have been on amisulpride several times. I did find it worked good for social anxiety but I'm not sure how well it would work with physical anxiety because I didn't really have much of that at the time. When it does work for anxiety, it really doesn't start to make a real difference until week 2 to 3. Prior to that it could actually stimulate things a little, but that passes and adjusts.
>
> Dosage. The higher the dose you take the more calming it will be, just like any other antipsychotic basically. For depression, doses in literature are about 50mg but in the real world everyone I have communicated with agreed that was too high. Better doses have been 25mg once a day or even once every other day, and I've even had decent results from 12.5mg, though that dose is a little more stimulatory than calming.
>
> I think amisulpride is worth a shot, it could work, but the main focus should be in a place you probably never suspected....adrenal herbs. You can do both at the same time. The herbs are more of a longterm healing and balancing thing that don't cover up symptoms but eliminate whatever is haywire causing them. In difficult to treat anxiety issues, that in my opinion is the most likely place to look and also the most unlikely place someone will look.You think I'd be better off with a lower dosages (50mg or less) or a higher one (50 to 200mg)
Papers and doctors all agree that amisulpride is dopaminergic up to 200mg
What do you think?
Cheers!
Posted by Phillipa on May 6, 2012, at 19:48:29
In reply to Re: Amisulpride for Anxiety (only), posted by CharlesRX on May 6, 2012, at 16:22:01
Charles I know this will work for you. Please post on here if ever feel that horrible again please? Phillipa
Posted by phidippus on May 6, 2012, at 21:38:25
In reply to Amisulpride for Anxiety (only), posted by CharlesRX on May 5, 2012, at 1:31:23
iwould not recommend amilsupride for anxiety, it will only worsen it. I've had several experiencess with it at doses ranging from 50 to 200 mgs and all ranges produced anxiety for me. its great as an upper at low doses but thats about it.
What are you on?
I'm considering surgery...
Eric
Posted by CharlesRX on May 9, 2012, at 5:16:45
In reply to Re: Amisulpride for Anxiety (only) » CharlesRX, posted by phidippus on May 6, 2012, at 21:38:25
Hi!
Eric:
I'm just taking Amisulpride right now (50mg), this is my 6th day, I've felt a little "energized", and a bit pro social starting from the 4th day, but still quite anxious. Very weird: I feel like socializing but anxious.
Philippa:
Thank you very much for your support, I' never been a depressive person, and I'm certainly not feeling depressed right now with amisulpride, but it's just that after 24 of crippling anxiety I reached my breaking point, but I don't want to die or harm myself, I'm determined to get better.
Regards! Thanks in advance for your inputs!
Posted by phidippus on May 9, 2012, at 21:49:54
In reply to Re: Amisulpride for Anxiety (only), posted by CharlesRX on May 9, 2012, at 5:16:45
Did you say Yrica didn't work for you?
Have you tried Seroquel?
Have you ever been on a TCA?
I'm a big fan of Klonopin for social anxiety? Have you ever been on a benzo?
Eric
Posted by CharlesRX on May 9, 2012, at 23:09:34
In reply to Re: Amisulpride for Anxiety (only) » CharlesRX, posted by phidippus on May 9, 2012, at 21:49:54
> Did you say Yrica didn't work for you?
>
> Have you tried Seroquel?
>
> Have you ever been on a TCA?
>
> I'm a big fan of Klonopin for social anxiety? Have you ever been on a benzo?
>
> EricLyrica did work, but it pooped out after a year, I've been on klonopin, and lots of other benzos, but I developed an ungodly tolerance, and they even high doses (16mgs of clonazepam or more) won't even touch me anymore.
TCA's didn't worked, I've been on amitryptiline and clomipramine, but the side effects were unbearable for me, and never really worked.
I've tried several antipsychotics: zyprexa, sinogan, geodon, risperdal, thorazine, but never seroquel. I've found out they are quite dysphoric for me.
I also tried tramadol and it was great, but found out tolerance developed quickly, so I had to take breaks: it wasn't consistent.
Posted by phidippus on May 10, 2012, at 19:47:38
In reply to Re: Amisulpride for Anxiety (only), posted by CharlesRX on May 9, 2012, at 23:09:34
What about SSRIs? Have you tried Mirtazapine?
Eric
Posted by creepy on May 16, 2012, at 7:40:57
In reply to Amisulpride for Anxiety (only), posted by CharlesRX on May 5, 2012, at 1:31:23
It seems like AP's are the go-to class of drugs for serious anxiety. Did you do well on zyprexa otherwise? Because the weight gain can be managed with drugs like topamax (which may be helpful on its own) and metformin.
Both of these drugs seem to do some measure of blood sugar control. topamax reduces appetite in some people as well.
Ive read studies claiming topamax sensitized a person to their own GABA, and slowed the amygdala which is involved in the fear response. Might be worth a shot
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