![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by uncouth on December 31, 2011, at 11:57:58
Hi all,
I am doing a project on smoking and I wanted to hear from people on this board. Most of us have extensive experience with psych meds, supplements, etc. ANd I'm guessing given smoking's comorbidity, a lot of us smoke now or in the past.
I had an odd experience last year when a supplement combination I took (at high doses, which eventually caused hypomania and dependence...long story) dramatically and SPONTANEOUSLY decreased my smoking substantially, from close to 20 cigarettes a day before, to a few weeks later, 5-7 cigarettes a day. It was like the craving went away, or the dysphoria from withdrawal went away, and what was left was simply the "habit", and I felt that I could have stopped if I wanted to at that level of smoking.
Only thing is I was pretty hopped up on stimulants at the time, but this effect lasted for months and while I switched my psych meds numerous times, so I'm pretty sure it was the supplement(s) I was taking. I am doing some extensive research and I haven't found anything showing that stimulants are in general associated with a decrease in smoking, if anything, they are associated with increased smoking, as is general psychiatric instability.
So anyway I am trying now to get to the bottom of my experience and would love to hear from people:
1. Have you ever experienced a spontaneous (i.e. you weren't trying to quit) decrease in your smoking as a result of a medication or supplement? What were you taking, how large was the decrease?
2. If you quit, or have tried to quit in the past, or whatever, what worked and what didn't work? In my experience bupropion didn't help me quit, and nicotine patches didn't substantially help either.
3. If you're still smoking, why? Is it motivation to quit, is it withdrawal, is there something about smoking that you are deeply attached to, does it affect you positively in other ways?
Anything else you care to share would help me as I'm doing my research. It is remarkable how little alternative treatments for tobacco addiction have been researched...
Uncouth
Posted by Christ_empowered on December 31, 2011, at 12:08:39
In reply to Smokers: any med or supp. ever decreased smoking?, posted by uncouth on December 31, 2011, at 11:57:58
High dose vitamin C (I take 10 grams daily) makes the physical urges to smoke less intense, for me at least. I still smoke a lot though--I just love a cigarette. I should probably work on that.
Stimulants made me smoke more in the short-term, less in the long-term. I have no idea why that should be the case.
Posted by uncouth on December 31, 2011, at 12:27:40
In reply to Re: Smokers: any med or supp. ever decreased smoking?, posted by Christ_empowered on December 31, 2011, at 12:08:39
Whoa that is a ton of vitamin C, isn't that too much? I was under the assumption taht anything more than say 2000mg vitamin c daily is bad for some reason (haven't done research myself). Can you elaborate on why you take so much?
Posted by Christ_empowered on December 31, 2011, at 17:11:46
In reply to Re: Smokers: any med or supp. ever decreased smoking?, posted by uncouth on December 31, 2011, at 12:27:40
I take 5 grams (5x1 grams sustained release caplets) 2x daily. Sometimes I forget the second (or first) dose. It seems to help.
I have allergies, dry skin, lots of oxidative stress from being crazed (and on a neuroleptic) and from my smoking (which I'm quitting for New Year's). I take a lot of other antioxidants, too. My goal is to reduce side-effects from medication and also improve my overall health. So far, so good--my skin looks better and tolerates topical medication better, my allergies are less intense, I don't freak out as much, and I don't have dysphoria or muscle stiffness from the Abilify, even when I hit 30mgs daily.
I don't know about the 2 gram business. I guess it depends on who you ask. I'm into Orthomolecular medicine (especially orthomolecular psychiatry), and they high dose just about every vitamin, especially C. 10 grams *seems* like a lot, and I guess it is compared to the general population, but in the wild world of Orthomolecular medicine, they regularly use more than that.
Posted by emmanuel98 on January 1, 2012, at 18:46:43
In reply to Smokers: any med or supp. ever decreased smoking?, posted by uncouth on December 31, 2011, at 11:57:58
I quit 14 years ago using the gum (I had gotten myself down to only a few cigarettes a day by then) but couldn't (still can't) get off the gum. When I took wellbutrin, I found I was using the gum much more infrequently.
Posted by emmanuel98 on January 1, 2012, at 18:53:45
In reply to Re: Smokers: any med or supp. ever decreased smoking?, posted by Christ_empowered on December 31, 2011, at 17:11:46
Vitamin C is water soluble and any excess is exceted. So it's not really dangerous to take mega-doses, though probably not helpful either. The body will only use so much.
Posted by Tony P on January 3, 2012, at 22:53:21
In reply to Smokers: any med or supp. ever decreased smoking?, posted by uncouth on December 31, 2011, at 11:57:58
Can't say I've had a really dramatic spontaneous reduction in smoking as a result of medication, except maybe short-term in a few cases where the med. made me so sleepy i wasn't awake enough to smoke <g>.
Bupropion made me too anxious & hypomanic; I wasn't smoking at the time, and haven't taken it since, so I can't really comment on its effectiveness. However, I have been on Cymbalta or a combination of SSRIs & stimulants with a similar combined effect to Bupropion for about the same period over which I reduced my smoking from >12 pipes/day to 3/day, so it's certainly possible the AD therapy helped. I have most of the data (being just a wee bit OCD), so I could probably graph it & look for a correlation.
I have had the opposite experience however: a few years ago I was taking high doses of Robaxin (a sedative/muscle relaxant). When I tapered off to zero on the Robaxin, my smoking suddenly went from occasional to 12 pipes a day or more, the equivalent of a two-pack+ cigarette habit.
Specifically in answer to your questions:
> 1. Have you ever experienced a spontaneous (i.e. you weren't trying to quit) decrease in your smoking as a result of a medication or supplement? What were you taking, how large was the decrease?
[TP] - Not as such, but see above for a _possible_ effect of SNRI therapy.
>
> 2. If you quit, or have tried to quit in the past, or whatever, what worked and what didn't work? In my experience bupropion didn't help me quit, and nicotine patches didn't substantially help either.
>
[TP] - Cognitive-behavioural counseling & tracking my smoking with a determination to reduce it substantially helped. The patch doesn't help me, but nicotine gum helped considerably for a while. As a pipe smoker, my addiction is somewhat different to most cigarette smokers: I'm used to a heavy dose of nicotine followed by 2-4 hours of abstinence. So I wound up chewing 2 4mg pieces of gum at a time, and now I have a huge tolerance to nicotine, an addiction to gum, and my my smoking is on the rise (but still way below the worst above, I average 3-4 pipes a day = 6-8 g of tobacco, very roughly 15-20 cigarettes worth).> 3. If you're still smoking, why? Is it motivation to quit, is it withdrawal, is there something about smoking that you are deeply attached to, does it affect you positively in other ways?
>
[TP] - I enjoy pipe smoking in moderation, there are many behavioural components that I am attached to, and good tobacco has much of the mystique of fine wine for me. Smoking definitely has a positive effect on my mood, partly because (as I understand) tobacco smoke contains natural MAOI's, and nicotine itself may have an indirect dopaminergic effect. Although I have a high tolerance to nicotine, I don't think physical withdrawal is an important component in keeping me smoking (although psychology withdrawal definitely IS); a relatively small dose of NRT such as gum or inhalers is enough to get me past the physical withdrawal.> Anything else you care to share would help me as I'm doing my research. It is remarkable how little alternative treatments for tobacco addiction have been researched...
>
[TP] - Agreed. I'm very interested in any conclusions you may come to. Very few therapists seem to know that a large component of actual smoking addiction is not directly due to nicotine, but the MAOI effect on dopamine, hence the only-moderate success of nicotine replacement therapy by itself. Wellbutrin/Zyban combined with NRT & possibly dietary supplements would seem to be a treatment of choice if my theory is correct.
> Uncouth
Posted by SLS on January 4, 2012, at 1:54:26
In reply to Smokers: any med or supp. ever decreased smoking?, posted by uncouth on December 31, 2011, at 11:57:58
Check out Topamax (topiramate).
- Scott
Posted by Raisinb on January 4, 2012, at 19:35:11
In reply to Smokers: any med or supp. ever decreased smoking?, posted by uncouth on December 31, 2011, at 11:57:58
I was a heavy smoker for several years. Only unadulterated bupropio made me not want to smoke. I quit a couple of years ago unaided, but I still enjoy one once in a blue moon. Honestly I just love smoking, the way I love coffee. The taste, the feeling of smoke in my lungs, even the smell, though I know most people feel it's disgusting. Even if I liked the effects, it would be easier if i did not love the smell and taste. If it were not so prohibitively expensive I'd still be doing it. And watching Mad Men is a test of willpower for me.
Posted by bleauberry on January 5, 2012, at 10:28:21
In reply to Smokers: any med or supp. ever decreased smoking?, posted by uncouth on December 31, 2011, at 11:57:58
There are two herbs I am aware of that are helpful to quit smoking. What supplements are you talking about?
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.