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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 19 to 43 of 43. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 9, 2011, at 8:06:42
In reply to Lou's request-greytleighmizteighkun?, posted by Lou Pilder on October 8, 2011, at 6:58:09
> > > Huxley, glad to hear you are doing better and you found what is working for you.
> > >
> > > I just wonder if you don't take enough pause and look at your experience as something that may have been very different than many other people out there. I do believe there are many people that have bad experiences with medications like you, I truly do, so I am in no way saying your experience is a rarity. I just don't think you are taking into account all of those people doing well on medications, medications that are far less invasive than the ones you were on(i.e. SSRIs-at least for most people). I have said it here before, you will not find the thousands of people doing well on drugs like SSRIs here on the internet celebrating their success and reporting it. If you think what you see on the internet represents even close to the majority of the population of people taking psychiatric medications, especially ones like SSRIs, you are greatly mistaken.
> > >
> > > And why would you come on here and bring up such an issue with Scott when he is obviously feeling better? I find it a bit selfish. If you are doing better now, why not just leave well enough alone and get on with your life. I'm sure you are a good dude with good intentions Huxley. I just think your efforts here might be a little misguided.
> > >
> > > Peace,
> > >
> > > Morgan
> >
> > Morgan,
> > YOu wrote,[...you are greatly xxx... a bit zzz...your efforts here might be a little yyy...]
> > I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers here to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> > A. What evidence do you use, if any, to claim that there is a great mistake?
> > B. If Huxley's efforts gave some type of warning to others that about 42,000 people died last year as the result of taking psychotropic drugs, would that not be a good thing to do? If not, why not?
> > C. If Huxley's efforts gave warning that life-ruining conditions could happen to those taking psychotropic drugs, could Huxley's effort be considerd to be unselfish? If not, why not?
> > D. Here is a link to the events where people taking psychotropic drugs have killed themselves and/or others and other events arising out of that one was taking psychotropic drugs. Each day, there are the new cases added. You can see the added cases in order of the most recent by clicking on the red {date} at the top, then the page will change to the most recent cases first. There might be some new cases today.
> > The site will show that it is plainly visible as to the consequences of (redacted by respondent)as being misguided or not.
> > Lou
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20110902/msgs/996161.html
> >
>
> Friends,
> Ifd you are considering being a discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you view the following video.
> Lou
> To see this video;
> A. Pull up Google
> B. Type in:
> [youtube, Every Month Psychiatric Drugs more people than 911]
> There will be a pic of a woman...posted on Feb 9 2009
>Friends,
If you are considering being a discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you viiew the following video. Lou....To view this video:
A. Pull up Google
B. Type in:
[youtube, In Memory of Christopher-one of 800]
This could come up first and it was posted on April 20 2011 and the time is 4 min
Posted by Phillipa on October 9, 2011, at 19:44:54
In reply to Re: Huxley-, posted by huxley on October 9, 2011, at 4:48:42
Why if I'm fine 65 years old now. As my pdoc said "If it ain't broke don't need to fix it". Phillipa
Posted by huxley on October 9, 2011, at 20:42:18
In reply to Re: Huxley- » huxley, posted by Phillipa on October 9, 2011, at 19:44:54
> Why if I'm fine 65 years old now. As my pdoc said "If it ain't broke don't need to fix it". Phillipa
Ok you have convinced me that there are no long (even short) term addiction withdrawal and tolerance complications with Benzos.
Posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 1:49:36
In reply to Re: Huxley- » morgan miller, posted by SLS on October 9, 2011, at 5:49:56
> > I also believe there is far far too much polypharmacy going on...
>
> What is inherently wrong with using more than drug to treat conditions that probably involve anomalous processes at multiple sites?
>
> I think the sentiments against polypharmacy are more ideological than scientific.
>
>
> - ScottI think I'm speaking more of people who go to the doctor and get on a benzo, then and ssri, than aderral for add, before any one treatment-preferably just an SSRI-is able to take hold and the person has a chance to do all the other things on top of the SSRI that they should be doing to make further improvement. Doctors rush for the quick fix, ofter prescribing 2 or 3 medications within the first few months. Then, after a patients brain has been messed with enough, along with being influenced to believe medication is the only solution, the patient grows more dependent on medication than they may have been, had a more patient and integrative approach been taken.
Posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 1:52:16
In reply to Re: Huxley-, posted by huxley on October 9, 2011, at 3:24:54
>And I KNOW people who have been made worse by SSRIs.
Yeah, and what's your point? I know this happens too. But you basically said, that all people end up being worse off after using psychiatric medications. Understand where I've been trying to get at in reaction to your original statement? Plus the fact that the people who have the type of adverse events you mention are likely in the minority, not the majority.
Posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 1:54:30
In reply to Re: Huxley-, posted by huxley on October 9, 2011, at 3:24:54
>If they are lucky. Tell that to my friend who has had her liver destroyed by Lithium.
How about some hepatic failure or pancretis from Depokate?This has more to do with the misuse of medication and not the medications themselves. You can take small doses of lithium for the rest of your life and if anything it will be good for you and your brain.
Posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 1:56:16
In reply to Lou's request-greytleighmizteighkun?kkrhmnhg, posted by Lou Pilder on October 9, 2011, at 8:06:42
> > > > Huxley, glad to hear you are doing better and you found what is working for you.
> > > >
> > > > I just wonder if you don't take enough pause and look at your experience as something that may have been very different than many other people out there. I do believe there are many people that have bad experiences with medications like you, I truly do, so I am in no way saying your experience is a rarity. I just don't think you are taking into account all of those people doing well on medications, medications that are far less invasive than the ones you were on(i.e. SSRIs-at least for most people). I have said it here before, you will not find the thousands of people doing well on drugs like SSRIs here on the internet celebrating their success and reporting it. If you think what you see on the internet represents even close to the majority of the population of people taking psychiatric medications, especially ones like SSRIs, you are greatly mistaken.
> > > >
> > > > And why would you come on here and bring up such an issue with Scott when he is obviously feeling better? I find it a bit selfish. If you are doing better now, why not just leave well enough alone and get on with your life. I'm sure you are a good dude with good intentions Huxley. I just think your efforts here might be a little misguided.
> > > >
> > > > Peace,
> > > >
> > > > Morgan
> > >
> > > Morgan,
> > > YOu wrote,[...you are greatly xxx... a bit zzz...your efforts here might be a little yyy...]
> > > I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers here to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> > > A. What evidence do you use, if any, to claim that there is a great mistake?
> > > B. If Huxley's efforts gave some type of warning to others that about 42,000 people died last year as the result of taking psychotropic drugs, would that not be a good thing to do? If not, why not?
> > > C. If Huxley's efforts gave warning that life-ruining conditions could happen to those taking psychotropic drugs, could Huxley's effort be considerd to be unselfish? If not, why not?
> > > D. Here is a link to the events where people taking psychotropic drugs have killed themselves and/or others and other events arising out of that one was taking psychotropic drugs. Each day, there are the new cases added. You can see the added cases in order of the most recent by clicking on the red {date} at the top, then the page will change to the most recent cases first. There might be some new cases today.
> > > The site will show that it is plainly visible as to the consequences of (redacted by respondent)as being misguided or not.
> > > Lou
> > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20110902/msgs/996161.html
> > >
> >
> > Friends,
> > Ifd you are considering being a discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you view the following video.
> > Lou
> > To see this video;
> > A. Pull up Google
> > B. Type in:
> > [youtube, Every Month Psychiatric Drugs more people than 911]
> > There will be a pic of a woman...posted on Feb 9 2009
> >
>
> Friends,
> If you are considering being a discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you viiew the following video. Lou....To view this video:
> A. Pull up Google
> B. Type in:
> [youtube, In Memory of Christopher-one of 800]
> This could come up first and it was posted on April 20 2011 and the time is 4 minLou,
If you are considering being a discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you actually have a conversation, like some here say you used to have.
Posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 2:02:33
In reply to Re: Huxley-, posted by huxley on October 9, 2011, at 3:24:54
Huxley, my cognitive functioning has improved since when I had a major mixed episode while I was drug free(it had been 8 months). During this major mixed episode I was a cognitive wreck. Proper exercise, diet, pleasurable social activity, and being more stable on meds have all contributed my cognition improving.
Dude, you would be better off if you could let some of these negative feelings go and take on a more relaxed, open, and objective position.
Posted by huxley on October 10, 2011, at 3:39:23
In reply to Re: Huxley-, posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 2:02:33
"Yeah, and what's your point? I know this happens too. But you basically said,
that all people end up being worse off after using psychiatric medications.
Understand where I've been trying to get at in reaction to your original statement?
Plus the fact that the people who have the type of adverse events you mention are
likely in the minority, not the majority."
I was pointing out how silly your claim that you knew people who were doing well on an SSRI was.
Lets just discount that we both know people with opposite experiences ok?
Long term I believe the most people are worse of with meds yes. And I stand by that.
How do you know it is the minority?"This has more to do with the misuse of medication and not the medications themselves.
You can take small doses of lithium for the rest of your life and if anything it will be
good for you and your brain."What about diabetes from Zyprexa? Is a little bit of zyprexa good for you?
What about pancretis from an anti convulsant? Good for you?I can point out plenty of meds where serious negative consequences happen and no one understands why how or who they will happen to.
"Huxley, my cognitive functioning has improved since when I had a major mixed episode while I was drug free(it had been 8 months).
During this major mixed episode I was a cognitive wreck. Proper exercise, diet, pleasurable social activity, and being more stable on meds
have all contributed my cognition improving."Glad to hear it morgan. If you don't believe that meds can seriously impact on cognative functioning then I can recommend a few for you to try that might
change your mind.
"Dude, you would be better off if you could let some of these negative feelings go and take on a more relaxed, open, and objective position."
Dude, you are doing it again. You seem to have some very agressive negative feelings there. Maybe some therapy could help you.
Maybe you could take on a more relaxed open and objective position.You are the one that started a thread with 'Huxley' as the title attacking me and I am the one that needs to relax?
My 'negative feelings' are actually an opinion. People have different opinions. Deal with it.
Stick to the subject. You were doing well.
Posted by SLS on October 10, 2011, at 6:59:51
In reply to Re: Huxley-, posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 1:54:30
> >If they are lucky. Tell that to my friend who has had her liver destroyed by Lithium.
> How about some hepatic failure or pancretis from Depokate?
>
> This has more to do with the misuse of medication and not the medications themselves. You can take small doses of lithium for the rest of your life and if anything it will be good for you and your brain.
>The truly good physicians make a habit of prescribing sets of blood tests to monitor liver, kidney, and thyroid functions when using these medications. Under these conditions, it is rare that untoward side effects escape detection and prove to be irreversible. It really isn't any different than monitoring for allergic reactions to penicillin using skin tests.
* High dosages of Depakote also require an assay of platelet function.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 10, 2011, at 7:20:13
In reply to Re: Huxley- » morgan miller, posted by huxley on October 10, 2011, at 3:39:23
Huxley and Morgan:
I actually like high drama on the battlefield of debate. However, when personal attacks become a large part of the conversation, the arguments relating to the issue being debated becomes obfuscated. Besides, it gets old and ugly after a while. It might even draw the attention of the moderators to once again police Psycho-Babble content and institute posting blocks as a punishments.
I am no goody-goody, but I really prefer not to attract the attention of Dr. Bob and his deputies. More recently, we have managed to not earn punitive sanctions to be effected by this website's owner.
Be merciful when you flame me.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by sigismund on October 10, 2011, at 8:46:33
In reply to Re: Huxley- » huxley, posted by morgan miller on October 7, 2011, at 22:54:05
>We all need therapy
All 7,000,000,000 of us?
Posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 10:51:30
In reply to A more focused debate without personal attacks?, posted by SLS on October 10, 2011, at 7:20:13
> Huxley and Morgan:
>
> I actually like high drama on the battlefield of debate. However, when personal attacks become a large part of the conversation, the arguments relating to the issue being debated becomes obfuscated. Besides, it gets old and ugly after a while. It might even draw the attention of the moderators to once again police Psycho-Babble content and institute posting blocks as a punishments.
>
> I am no goody-goody, but I really prefer not to attract the attention of Dr. Bob and his deputies. More recently, we have managed to not earn punitive sanctions to be effected by this website's owner.
>
> Be merciful when you flame me.
>
> :-)
>
>
> - ScottI hear ya Scott. I did not do a good job of filtering my thoughts through text. Next time I will try to be more eloquent and respectful in my responses.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 10:56:51
In reply to Re: Huxley-, posted by sigismund on October 10, 2011, at 8:46:33
> >We all need therapy
>
> All 7,000,000,000 of us?I would say yes. Maybe it's better to say we could all benefit from therapy with a very good therapist. I know we could all benefit from group therapy. Group therapy is by far and away the best way to learn about yourself in relation to other people in order to be able to attain quality relationships in life.
I made that statement Sigi. Not sure if you knew that. It was really meant for all of us that have struggled with some form of mental illness. I would also apply it to anyone that continues to have problems in relationships.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 11:02:08
In reply to Re: Huxley- » morgan miller, posted by huxley on October 10, 2011, at 3:39:23
>
>
> "Yeah, and what's your point? I know this happens too. But you basically said,
> that all people end up being worse off after using psychiatric medications.
> Understand where I've been trying to get at in reaction to your original statement?
> Plus the fact that the people who have the type of adverse events you mention are
> likely in the minority, not the majority."
>
>
> I was pointing out how silly your claim that you knew people who were doing well on an SSRI was.
> Lets just discount that we both know people with opposite experiences ok?
>
>
> Long term I believe the most people are worse of with meds yes. And I stand by that.
> How do you know it is the minority?
>
>
>
> "This has more to do with the misuse of medication and not the medications themselves.
> You can take small doses of lithium for the rest of your life and if anything it will be
> good for you and your brain."
>
> What about diabetes from Zyprexa? Is a little bit of zyprexa good for you?
> What about pancretis from an anti convulsant? Good for you?
>
> I can point out plenty of meds where serious negative consequences happen and no one understands why how or who they will happen to.
>
>
>
>
> "Huxley, my cognitive functioning has improved since when I had a major mixed episode while I was drug free(it had been 8 months).
> During this major mixed episode I was a cognitive wreck. Proper exercise, diet, pleasurable social activity, and being more stable on meds
> have all contributed my cognition improving."
>
> Glad to hear it morgan. If you don't believe that meds can seriously impact on cognative functioning then I can recommend a few for you to try that might
> change your mind.
>
>
>
>
> "Dude, you would be better off if you could let some of these negative feelings go and take on a more relaxed, open, and objective position."
>
>
>
> Dude, you are doing it again. You seem to have some very agressive negative feelings there. Maybe some therapy could help you.
> Maybe you could take on a more relaxed open and objective position.
>
> You are the one that started a thread with 'Huxley' as the title attacking me and I am the one that needs to relax?
>
>
> My 'negative feelings' are actually an opinion. People have different opinions. Deal with it.
>
>
> Stick to the subject. You were doing well.
>Huxley, I think it's time for us to have a little more respect here and take what Scott said to heart.
>Glad to hear it morgan. If you don't believe that meds can seriously impact on cognative functioning then I can recommend a few for you to try that might
change your mind.I do believe some medications can impair cognitive function. I also know that cognitive impairment often depends on the individual.
I just feel you make a lot of blanket statements about medications when things are a bit more complex. Again, you seem to be primarily motivated by your negative experience. Imagine if you were one of those that had a very good experience and it continued on for a while? What would you be saying then. I think it's a good idea, no matter what experience we had, to try to reach a point where we can be a little more objective, that's all.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 11:03:24
In reply to Re: Huxley-, posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 11:02:08
Huxley, I actually have experienced cognitive issues on a medication, it was Lamictal.
Posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 11:05:46
In reply to Re: Huxley-, posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 11:03:24
I also know that I've experienced pretty bad cognitive impairment as a result of chronic mixed states, depression, anxiety, and stress.
Sorry guys for the multiple posts. I'm a little trigger happy with confirming posts right now : )
Morgan
Posted by sigismund on October 10, 2011, at 11:14:29
In reply to Re: Huxley-, posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 10:56:51
Hi Morgan
I put it like that because I am in Dakar and there are a lot of people without feet here. We don't see that in the west, this no foot thing. Mostly preventable. So when I hear you say everyone needs therapy I wonder if you are talking about the people here, and whether that would be their first choice.
Posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 12:29:11
In reply to Re: Huxley-, posted by sigismund on October 10, 2011, at 11:14:29
Well everything is relative. But, like my old therapist said, "what happens to all of us is relative, we shouldn't dismiss our own sufferings based on the fact that others may have suffered worse."
Posted by sigismund on October 10, 2011, at 13:03:44
In reply to Re: Huxley- » sigismund, posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 12:29:11
That wasn't my only point. We both come from atomised societies, and therapy surely is about a structured form of caring. Loneliness is our disease. In Australia people are dead for years in their houses before anyone notices. Here people live on the street. It is hard to imagine social phobia here, for example.
Posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 14:15:03
In reply to Re: Huxley- » morgan miller, posted by sigismund on October 10, 2011, at 13:03:44
If loneliness is our disease, then if we make mental health therapies more available to people, we could take one step closer to helping people develop the tools to form long lasting quality relationships and prevent future loneliness.
I'm still not sure what you are trying to say Sigi. I think our disease is a little more complex than just loneliness.
Therapy is structured, and for good reason. You are supposed to do the hard work in and outside of therapy so you can start forming good relationships in your personal life.
Posted by sigismund on October 10, 2011, at 15:16:31
In reply to Re: Huxley- » sigismund, posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 14:15:03
What I am saying is this.
Therapy started in Vienna, a very particular form of social organisation, and migrated from Europe to the US and by extension, Australia.
It has nothing to offer most of the world, in terms of population. They don't even have many of our problems (yet?) and are beset with more pressing ones.
There's a lot of people out there.
Posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 16:17:46
In reply to Re: Huxley-, posted by sigismund on October 10, 2011, at 15:16:31
> What I am saying is this.
>
> Therapy started in Vienna, a very particular form of social organisation, and migrated from Europe to the US and by extension, Australia.
>
> It has nothing to offer most of the world, in terms of population. They don't even have many of our problems (yet?) and are beset with more pressing ones.
>
> There's a lot of people out there.If it were available, it would be very very helpful to all. Wherever there is trauma, no matter what kind, therapy is the best way to enable someone to start to heal.
Posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 16:19:03
In reply to Re: Huxley-, posted by sigismund on October 10, 2011, at 11:14:29
I do understand what you are saying though. And no, therapy is not available to most of the population of the world, sadly enough.
Posted by Phillipa on October 10, 2011, at 19:10:57
In reply to Re: Huxley-, posted by morgan miller on October 10, 2011, at 16:19:03
Morgan I also think Sigi might be trying to say that if you literally have no feet that theraphy isn't their primary thought or need. Walking getting around are in a very poor country. Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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