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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tom2228 on August 17, 2010, at 22:20:49
Just quit--
didn't take it last night.was only taking 250mg ER (i'm also sensitive) but WOWWWWW IT FEELS GOOD TO BE ALIVE AGAIN!!
no i'm not manic, I just went for a run lol--
aerobic exercize + nature (being outside) + my favorite music (ipod) always gives me a rush..but it's the lack of depakote that made me actually feel compelled to DO something enjoyable!
On a more serious note, in my opinion valproate is like mind control. I was the one who asked to be put on it (needed a mood stabilizer and other options were unfavorable).. but WOW I didn't think it possible that in a short time of 2 weeks one could completely forget what it was like to feel pleasure at all.. all the while having not realized what the drug had done to my quality of life.. honestly if it weren't for the fact that my other medications both began to lose efficacy for what they were treating and that it happened within the past 2 weeks.. who knows how long it would be before I FELT again..
Sorry if any of you are being helped by the drug. to say the LEAST: it is NOT for me!can't wait for my system to readjust but praying for stability
Posted by morgan miller on August 17, 2010, at 22:55:05
In reply to GOODbye depakote!!!, posted by tom2228 on August 17, 2010, at 22:20:49
Good to hear your feeling better off depakote. Why were you taking it in the first place?
I might go back to depakote at some point and just take a 250mg ER dose at night. One interesting little tidbit on valproic acid is it enhances the production of neuronal progenitor stem cells. Maybe in the short time you were on it you did your brain some good!
Posted by Phillipa on August 18, 2010, at 0:38:07
In reply to Re: GOODbye depakote!!!, posted by morgan miller on August 17, 2010, at 22:55:05
Why is it lately that it seems more and more people are feeling better off their meds? Phillipa
Posted by Zyprexa on August 19, 2010, at 22:15:32
In reply to GOODbye depakote!!!, posted by tom2228 on August 17, 2010, at 22:20:49
I was on a much higher dose of depakote for about a year. 1000mg or something. Just stoped it cold turky with no problems at all. Infact I felt better off it.
So good luck to you!
Are you switching to anouther med? If not you may end up only feeling good for a while and then back to feeling bad. So watch out for that.
Posted by Zyprexa on August 19, 2010, at 22:21:43
In reply to Re: GOODbye depakote!!!, posted by Phillipa on August 18, 2010, at 0:38:07
I'm not! Yesterday it felt like I was on a placibo zyprexa. Couldn't function at all. Not sure what happened. But I didn't sleep or function all day. Is it possible to end up with a placibo in the mix? My head was in outer space, totaly unaware of surrounding and was afraid I would not make it through work. I almost had atleast 2 accidents driving. Couldn't talk to people, normaly. Cold sweats. It was awfull.
Posted by Phillipa on August 20, 2010, at 19:28:17
In reply to Re: GOODbye depakote!!! » Phillipa, posted by Zyprexa on August 19, 2010, at 22:21:43
Well that is strange? No changes? Sure you took your pill? Knowing the traffic there it must have been scarey. Will be traveling through Wed your area. Evening on way back got to hit CT Mall for lindtt. Phillipa
Posted by Zyprexa on August 20, 2010, at 22:47:17
In reply to Re: GOODbye depakote!!! » Zyprexa, posted by Phillipa on August 20, 2010, at 19:28:17
I don't know what happened, but I'm pretty sure I took it. I put all meds in dayminders. And look to make sure that pills are all in there. So I don't know.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on August 21, 2010, at 10:24:24
In reply to Re: GOODbye depakote!!! » Phillipa, posted by Zyprexa on August 19, 2010, at 22:21:43
>Is it possible to end up with a placebo in the mix?
Not really, no. Like Phillipa said, it does sound like you forgot to take it.
Posted by tom2228 on August 21, 2010, at 16:14:16
In reply to Re: GOODbye depakote!!!, posted by Zyprexa on August 19, 2010, at 22:15:32
> I was on a much higher dose of depakote for about a year. 1000mg or something. Just stoped it cold turky with no problems at all. Infact I felt better off it.
>
> So good luck to you!
>
> Are you switching to anouther med? If not you may end up only feeling good for a while and then back to feeling bad. So watch out for that.So I'm really bad about following up on my own posts quickly -- not following through on things, thats what's really annoying about my ADHD..
Thanks for the support guys. No not switching yet. But yea I understand exactly what you're saying, I actually did type out a reply to Phillipa's first post that it may seem, and many people falsely believe -- the hard thing about mood disorders especially bipolars -- that they are feel much better when they quit their meds. So you have to take their accounts with a grain of salt because most of the time the "better" is very transient.
Bipolars are notorious for stopping their meds and feeling like life is so much better off their meds.. sadly the brain is playing a trick as stopping mood stabilizers sets off a neurochemical storm that the brain's receptors aren't used to handling -- the meds dampen excessive neural activity. Often the disorder is already back once the meds stop b/c a lot of people go manic.
I believe I definitely had a reaction to stopping depakote.. where my brain was much more activated all of a sudden, lasted for a couple of days. I seem to have calmed down past 2 days so I think it was the depakote.
But i definitely got hypomanic-y... staying up almost all night, taking long faaast drives, drinking and going wild, and uhm had a casual encounter or 2 . to say the very least hypersexuality.
Complicating that is that a week and a half ago I switched from Vyvanse (d-amp) to Desoxyn (d-methamphetamine). I have finally found my ADHD med after 8(?) tries, it really is the best for symptom control. 99% side-effect free... except a very pronounced, or maybe RETURNED (i am an 18-year-old guy) libido! Far less anxiety than d-amp.. the difference is you CAN inhibit your behavior if you choose, instead of the medicine inhibiting YOU. So you can be your rather uninhibited self...
I'm also on MAOIs just switched from Parnate (25mg) to Marplan earlier this week. The switch was right around the time the depakote "episode" was happening so it could be a factor too.
So Desoxyn 5-7.5mg and Marplan 20mg.
Treating (!! formerly-)treatment resistant atypical depression, social anxiety, severe ADHD combined, and some type of bipolarity... my docs have just treated it not specified. i'm getting neuropsych testing for school (need it for university stim scripts) so hopefully will get to the bottom of what type of bipolarity is going on.
But yea at the moment I am not treating the bipolar/ mood instability bit.. we're seeing how I do off depakote now that i've switched to more tolerable stim and AD. also waiting to gauge my marplan efficacy because the next options we're thinking about are lithium or thyroid, which would augment both depression and help mood stability.
SO has anybody used lithium amongst other mood stabilizers? is Li+ less of a "zombifying" antimanic than depakote?Also does has anyone had any experience with those + stimulants, like which one dampens amphetamines' effects more and the like. I found depakote really attenuated the amp's effects on energy, alertness, well-being, stimulation.. just leaving most of the focusing effects (though slightly dampened).
I read that depakote actuallly increases gene transcription of the DAT, increasing DAT density.. which is basically a direct interference to the therapeutic effects of amphetamines and indirectly to MAOI's efficacy! Basically going off depakote has the stimulant effect of reducing DAT activity and density!
Perhaps that's why it feels so good to get OFF it. So i am really confused if stopping it was purely the d/c effect of the drug, whether it was my bipolarity flaring up, or desoxyn IDK!
Anyone have any input or experience w/ this?
>>morgan
>
> I might go back to depakote at some point and just take a 250mg ER dose at night. One interesting little tidbit on valproic acid is it enhances the production of neuronal progenitor stem cells. Maybe in the short time you were on it you did your brain some good!Hah that would be nice! Maybe, as im feeling OK now, not really moody.. could be the switch to marplan and feeling more alive off depakote. But it's my last week home until college so whatever good it did probably has not stood a chance against all the partying i've been doing lately... drinking/pills/mary jane. So maybe just im feeling good because Im high..
Rough time for me with going up to college this friday. Will be hard for me.. but i'm also pumped for school! This month ill be seeing the doc 3 times.. really scrambling to get the meds in check before i go!
desoxyn starting to work much better since off depakote so maybe i'll keep up w/ the posting and I won't have to write so much in 1 post!thanks for the help.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on August 21, 2010, at 16:58:09
In reply to Re: GOODbye depakote!!! » Zyprexa, posted by tom2228 on August 21, 2010, at 16:14:16
>Desoxyn (d-methamphetamine). I have finally found my ADHD med after 8(?) tries, it really is the best for symptom control.
Will you be taking it 'when required' or every day? I would be rather concerned about what the long term effects of methamphetamine might be.
Posted by tom2228 on August 21, 2010, at 17:19:02
In reply to Re: GOODbye depakote!!! » tom2228, posted by ed_uk2010 on August 21, 2010, at 16:58:09
> >Desoxyn (d-methamphetamine). I have finally found my ADHD med after 8(?) tries, it really is the best for symptom control.
>
> Will you be taking it 'when required' or every day? I would be rather concerned about what the long term effects of methamphetamine might be.
>Daily, for most of the day. I'll usually time it so it lasts until after I fall asleep, or if not sometimes i'll take a dose at bedtime if I'm too antsy. methylphenidate and desoxyn are the most tolerable and efficacious anti-insomnia treatments for me.. but i don't mean to get on a tangent.
There truly is not much for me to be concerned with any more than with other ADHD stims like d-amp and methylphenidate. The studies on methamphetamine neurotoxicity used EXTREMELY high doses on those poor lil monkeys, which for someone my weight might be around 420mg per dose! And intravenous which is far more neurotoxic. They also shot the monkeys up more than once a day.
Common recreational doses of 50-100mg per dose -- and smoked, IV, snorted -- are about 1/10 - 1/20 my ORAL dose for an entire day.
When used in therapeutic dosages for ADHD, especially low ones like mine, methamphetamine is not significantly more neurotoxic than dextroamphetamine.
While dextroamphetamine has significantly more side-effects, physical and psychiatric -- most prominently irritability/anxiety. And is less effective than Desoxyn.
My ADHD is pretty serious so I need to be on my medication. I am much more satisfied with a med that doesn't make me feel different. It is so much less stressful not having to manage dealing with an unmedicated vs. medicated self.
It's just damn nice to have symptoms covered (and very well) with minimal interruption to my life.. it does wonders for self-esteem being able to feel that you don't have to be a different person to get on in life with ADHD. Desoxyn has helped me believe in myself.
Soo in short (minimal) risks outweigh the benefits!
Posted by morgan miller on August 21, 2010, at 19:08:29
In reply to Re: GOODbye depakote!!! » Zyprexa, posted by tom2228 on August 21, 2010, at 16:14:16
>But i definitely got hypomanic-y... staying up almost all night, taking long faaast drives, drinking and going wild, and uhm had a casual encounter or 2 . to say the very least hypersexuality.
Ha! You're young and having a little manic fun. I know plenty of people that are not bipolar that did much of the same in their younger years. I'm jealous.
Just be aware of the fact that you may feel like your not doing damage now, but things might catch up to you later and you may feel the hurt of the actions in your youth : )
Posted by tom2228 on August 26, 2010, at 12:21:49
In reply to Re: GOODbye depakote!!!, posted by morgan miller on August 21, 2010, at 19:08:29
> >But i definitely got hypomanic-y... staying up almost all night, taking long faaast drives, drinking and going wild, and uhm had a casual encounter or 2 . to say the very least hypersexuality.
>
> Ha! You're young and having a little manic fun. I know plenty of people that are not bipolar that did much of the same in their younger years. I'm jealous.
>
> Just be aware of the fact that you may feel like your not doing damage now, but things might catch up to you later and you may feel the hurt of the actions in your youth : )ahahaha yes fun. honestly i felt like i was on ecstasy. and ive never taken that. tho im very well versed in that kinda thing, majoring in neurosci (+ pysch).. plus got lots of "crazy" friends so i think its safe to say that lol.
yea i realized that it was quite 18-year-old college-bound guy of me to be doing. but at the same time i took those things to the extreme lol.
behavioral impulsivity is a bigggg problem for me..saw the doc this morning and he upped the desoxyn to 10mg (doubled). definitely helping everything!!
i believe i have calmed down a lot. im really just a wild person and i like to have a little too much fun. i just get into trouble and the problem is, like u said, things can be going great but then things suddenly come crashing down.
however lately w/ MAOIs ive learned not to be so hard on myself. this is my life, this who i am. im going to enjoy it!
anyway going on lithium.
how "zombifying" is lithium? compared to depakote?? does it f*ck up your cognition? i'll be taking 300mg a day.
anyone have experience w/ it as an antidepressant augmentor? Still taking marplan, actually decreasing the marplan to 15mg from 20mg
----
Ok now the next day.. took the Li+ at around 6am before bed... feeling calmer/ slower today but not bad! however, I was on shrooms last night when i wrote this so... can't know for sure why i'm feeling this way.See what i mean? tripping out the night i know i'm supposed to start lithium for god's sake.. and staying up all night when i have to hit 5 stores today and finish packing before i leave for college tmrw! my judgment is just off... i mean i am enjoying myself but all the fun usually comes back to bite me in the *ss. all happens pretty quickly actually, usually a couple weeks at a time. and i never seem to learn from it
heh
whatever
Lithium to the rescue?
Posted by ed_uk2010 on August 26, 2010, at 15:45:42
In reply to Re: GOODbye depakote!!! » morgan miller, posted by tom2228 on August 26, 2010, at 12:21:49
>I was on shrooms last night when i wrote this so... can't know for sure why i'm feeling this way.
So you're on methamphetamine, mushrooms and you're supposed to be starting lithium?
I don't want to sound critical but I do think you need to be very very careful with drugs (both the ones which you are prescribed, and the ones which you are not). Methamphetamine can lead to a lot of trouble - although it may initially appear to be a 'cure all', it is not!
Posted by morgan miller on August 26, 2010, at 21:35:34
In reply to Re: GOODbye depakote!!! » morgan miller, posted by tom2228 on August 26, 2010, at 12:21:49
Tom you gotta stop doing recreational drugs bro. Unless you can just do shrooms or smoke weed every once in a while, otherwise, you shouldn't be taking anything. I know you want to have fun and escape, I was the same as you. Now, at 37, I regret ever doing a singe drug and I wish I had drank half the amount of alcohol. You may not feel it, but the drugs are damaging your brain and altering it's function/brain chemistry. Just be careful and think about the future.
Morgan
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