Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 934789

Shown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Guidance Anyone?

Posted by bleauberry on January 23, 2010, at 14:17:42

A little bit long, and probably needs some creative diagnosis and thought...

Alright, no doubt, a confusing situation. Doctors give me a blank stare. I doubt any of us have an answer, I sure don't, but ya never know, someone might just spark a great idea. That's what I'm hoping for.

The only meds never tried:
Nardil
Buspar
Risperdal

The only meds that hold potential (based on the criteria that they do not make me worse, more depressed). Pretty much all other meds do make me profoundly worse.

The candidates:
Milnacipran + Pindolol
Milnacipran + Buspar
Pindolol + Buspar
Milnacipran + Pindolol + Buspar
Milnacipran + Risperdal
Milnacipran + Abilify
Parnate
Parnate + Risperdal
Parnate + Abilify
Any of the above with Ritalin
Any of the above with Amisulpride

The above are based on quality clinical evidence backing them up, case studies, small studies, and they are the only meds that meet my criteria of potentially mood-helpful in previous toe-dipping trials of low doses. Any other meds not listed above, forget it, they are out. I will not take anything that makes me worse than I already am. Anything not listed does exactly that.

Complicating factors:
Hidradenitis. This is similar to monsterous localized acne, carbuncles, furuncles, or boils. It's on the buttocks. It flares up very badly with anything noradrenergic/dopaminergic. Strange, but a doctor had me put Nystatin cream (topical or intestinal but not systemic antifungal) on it for a few weeks and it helped a lot on the outside, but not deep inside. Recently I tried a few days of Diflucan (systemic antifungal) based on a German hospital that found it cured difficult-to-treat Lyme patients who had failed other treatments. There are theories of why it worked, but only theories. I started 5mg Nortriptyline at the same time. The Nort immediately did not feel good, but the Hidradenitis was improving a lot. I thought it was the Nort. But no. With more time, after stopping Diflucan, I was hit in the face with the realization it was Diflucan doing the good. And then I realized, yeah, scratching that infected skin smells "fungal". Anyone female who's had a vaginal infection knows that smell. Same. No one knows what causes Hidradinitis. Some improve with antibiotics, some with surgery, most never. No known cure. Diflucan could be a new discovery. Long story, but the basic message here is...I generally benefit the most from certain (not all) meds that are noradrenergic, yet they worsen Hidradenitis so bad I can't even sit or walk without severe pain in the sitting area. That's a stubborn roadblock in my way to mental health.

Aches and pains. I don't know why, but serotonin meds create joint and muscle pains rather severe all over the body. I can't be having an allergic reaction to everything?

Wrist tendonitis. Long ago healed with surgery. But, anything noradrenergic causes it to resurface. Even if pain doesn't get bad, the numbness and tingling of fingers is scarey. Another roadblock. The meds that make me feel the best kill the use of my hand.

Calf problems. This is hard to describe. Calf muscles only, mostly left leg, a little on the right. We're talking rock hard, extremely painful to move, painful even to the touch. Meds of all kinds seem to do this. Why just the calves? I sometimes wonder if it is some sort of a tardive complication of longterm zyprexa I used to take, but again, why just the calves? What the heck is this? Another roadblock. The meds that help me the most take my legs. The meds that make me suicidal actually make my legs feel good. Dang.

My top antidepressants based on short term trials are Milnacipran or Parnate, and for immediate life saving Ritalin (which leads to obsessional delusional jealousy suspiciousness distrust if continued). But all of the above complications stand in my way.

Amisulpride actually helped the tendonitis thing somewhat, improved my appetite somewhat, and lessened body pains...why or how I have no clue. Combined with Milnacipran it made me completely blah and lifeless, or what I called "just get it over with-ness". The opposite of what you would expect from Amisulpride.

I don't know. 3 of 5 treatment resistant patients found remission when risperdal was added to their milnacipran. All 5 had benefits. 90% of patients responded to buspar+pindolol combo. 90% experienced response beginning in one week with milnacipran+pindolol combo. We all know the potential abilify has with SSRIs, but there is nothing in literature about it with Milnacipran or Parnate.

So, you see a lot of confusing choices here. It's kind of like being stopped at a traffic signal with 8 different directions you could go, but indecisiveness in choosing one. At least all the bad choices have been eliminated already. The remaining ones all have potential, but also some rather serious complications.

Thoughts?

Lyme and chelation treatments need to continue, but dang, I'm telling you, depression itself stands in my way of doing those. Two of my favorite authors Andrew Cutler of Amalgam Illness, as well as Stephen Buhner for natural Lyme treatment, say that the right meds and/or supplements should get you feeling a lot better fairly quickly so that you can get on with your life and treatment.

What they heck are my right meds?

 

Re: Guidance Anyone? » bleauberry

Posted by janejane on January 23, 2010, at 18:45:18

In reply to Guidance Anyone?, posted by bleauberry on January 23, 2010, at 14:17:42

Have you tried sage for the hidradenitis? (You probably have, but I'm going to mention it just in case.) A friend of mine had recurrent boils and found bath soaks to be helpful. I think she just put some of the fresh herb in a large teabag and put it in the tub with hot water.

 

Re: Guidance Anyone?

Posted by Phillipa on January 23, 2010, at 20:06:52

In reply to Re: Guidance Anyone? » bleauberry, posted by janejane on January 23, 2010, at 18:45:18

I'm stumped but seems like antibiotics help you the most for whatever reason? Phillipa

 

Re: Guidance Anyone? » bleauberry

Posted by floatingbridge on January 24, 2010, at 4:14:00

In reply to Guidance Anyone?, posted by bleauberry on January 23, 2010, at 14:17:42

BB, What are the symptoms of your depression? Do you have a dx that is useful to know? On a scale of one to ten, or however you rate your depression, where do you feel you're at?

fb

 

Re: Guidance Anyone?

Posted by bleauberry on January 24, 2010, at 6:15:28

In reply to Re: Guidance Anyone? » bleauberry, posted by floatingbridge on January 24, 2010, at 4:14:00

> BB, What are the symptoms of your depression? Do you have a dx that is useful to know? On a scale of one to ten, or however you rate your depression, where do you feel you're at?
>
> fb

Excellent questions. Thank you.

Symptoms are primarily vegetative...easily exhausted, nonrefreshing sleep, aches and pains, anhedonia, inability to experience pleasure, social withdrawal, colorless world. Definitely 95% biological. The symptoms are also identical to what is normally seen in Lyme, Candida, and amalgam illness. Crying and despair are rare, it isn't usually that kind of depression, but can be made that way rather quickly with any psych drug not listed on my candidates list in the original post.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the worst, I would rate myself between a 7 and a 9, varying from day to day.

 

Re: Guidance Anyone? » bleauberry

Posted by floatingbridge on January 24, 2010, at 13:17:54

In reply to Guidance Anyone?, posted by bleauberry on January 23, 2010, at 14:17:42

Scott used abilify and parnate....for different reasons, though.

Not familiar w/ some meds you mention--I might have research time later. Risperdal?

What has raised your baseline quickly and stabily? Parnate--do you get somatic relief? Milinpracin? Are you currently taking any med?

Fast acting or longer range treatment?

At the levels of distress you mention, are you feeling suicidal? Or ideation? I know

I'd be crying and distressed by the somatic symptoms alone. I'm sorry BB.

fb

You're aware of the limits of my knowledge--that's why I ask you and others! Will be busy for some time and will check back when I can. Hang in there.

 

Re: Guidance Anyone? » bleauberry

Posted by orbital on January 24, 2010, at 13:45:24

In reply to Guidance Anyone?, posted by bleauberry on January 23, 2010, at 14:17:42

How about Abilify monotherapy? I haven't tried aripiprazole myself, but I do know several people who have successfully treated their anhedonia with it (slowly titrating to a high dose in the AM).

High doses of magnesium (citrate, not oxide) for sleep - this could also help with the calf thing, if it's somehow related to cramps etc.

Also... my pdoc told me something quite obvious: our brain chemistry changes over time, sometimes a med that was intolerable/unsuccessful in the past might just work when tried again - obviously not if you've had a severe reaction to it/them. Still, "meh" meds might just do the trick further down the line - I experienced this with Paxil.

> A little bit long, and probably needs some creative diagnosis and thought...
>
> Alright, no doubt, a confusing situation. Doctors give me a blank stare. I doubt any of us have an answer, I sure don't, but ya never know, someone might just spark a great idea. That's what I'm hoping for.
>
> The only meds never tried:
> Nardil
> Buspar
> Risperdal
>
> The only meds that hold potential (based on the criteria that they do not make me worse, more depressed). Pretty much all other meds do make me profoundly worse.
>
> The candidates:
> Milnacipran + Pindolol
> Milnacipran + Buspar
> Pindolol + Buspar
> Milnacipran + Pindolol + Buspar
> Milnacipran + Risperdal
> Milnacipran + Abilify
> Parnate
> Parnate + Risperdal
> Parnate + Abilify
> Any of the above with Ritalin
> Any of the above with Amisulpride
>
> The above are based on quality clinical evidence backing them up, case studies, small studies, and they are the only meds that meet my criteria of potentially mood-helpful in previous toe-dipping trials of low doses. Any other meds not listed above, forget it, they are out. I will not take anything that makes me worse than I already am. Anything not listed does exactly that.
>
> Complicating factors:
> Hidradenitis. This is similar to monsterous localized acne, carbuncles, furuncles, or boils. It's on the buttocks. It flares up very badly with anything noradrenergic/dopaminergic. Strange, but a doctor had me put Nystatin cream (topical or intestinal but not systemic antifungal) on it for a few weeks and it helped a lot on the outside, but not deep inside. Recently I tried a few days of Diflucan (systemic antifungal) based on a German hospital that found it cured difficult-to-treat Lyme patients who had failed other treatments. There are theories of why it worked, but only theories. I started 5mg Nortriptyline at the same time. The Nort immediately did not feel good, but the Hidradenitis was improving a lot. I thought it was the Nort. But no. With more time, after stopping Diflucan, I was hit in the face with the realization it was Diflucan doing the good. And then I realized, yeah, scratching that infected skin smells "fungal". Anyone female who's had a vaginal infection knows that smell. Same. No one knows what causes Hidradinitis. Some improve with antibiotics, some with surgery, most never. No known cure. Diflucan could be a new discovery. Long story, but the basic message here is...I generally benefit the most from certain (not all) meds that are noradrenergic, yet they worsen Hidradenitis so bad I can't even sit or walk without severe pain in the sitting area. That's a stubborn roadblock in my way to mental health.
>
> Aches and pains. I don't know why, but serotonin meds create joint and muscle pains rather severe all over the body. I can't be having an allergic reaction to everything?
>
> Wrist tendonitis. Long ago healed with surgery. But, anything noradrenergic causes it to resurface. Even if pain doesn't get bad, the numbness and tingling of fingers is scarey. Another roadblock. The meds that make me feel the best kill the use of my hand.
>
> Calf problems. This is hard to describe. Calf muscles only, mostly left leg, a little on the right. We're talking rock hard, extremely painful to move, painful even to the touch. Meds of all kinds seem to do this. Why just the calves? I sometimes wonder if it is some sort of a tardive complication of longterm zyprexa I used to take, but again, why just the calves? What the heck is this? Another roadblock. The meds that help me the most take my legs. The meds that make me suicidal actually make my legs feel good. Dang.
>
> My top antidepressants based on short term trials are Milnacipran or Parnate, and for immediate life saving Ritalin (which leads to obsessional delusional jealousy suspiciousness distrust if continued). But all of the above complications stand in my way.
>
> Amisulpride actually helped the tendonitis thing somewhat, improved my appetite somewhat, and lessened body pains...why or how I have no clue. Combined with Milnacipran it made me completely blah and lifeless, or what I called "just get it over with-ness". The opposite of what you would expect from Amisulpride.
>
> I don't know. 3 of 5 treatment resistant patients found remission when risperdal was added to their milnacipran. All 5 had benefits. 90% of patients responded to buspar+pindolol combo. 90% experienced response beginning in one week with milnacipran+pindolol combo. We all know the potential abilify has with SSRIs, but there is nothing in literature about it with Milnacipran or Parnate.
>
> So, you see a lot of confusing choices here. It's kind of like being stopped at a traffic signal with 8 different directions you could go, but indecisiveness in choosing one. At least all the bad choices have been eliminated already. The remaining ones all have potential, but also some rather serious complications.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Lyme and chelation treatments need to continue, but dang, I'm telling you, depression itself stands in my way of doing those. Two of my favorite authors Andrew Cutler of Amalgam Illness, as well as Stephen Buhner for natural Lyme treatment, say that the right meds and/or supplements should get you feeling a lot better fairly quickly so that you can get on with your life and treatment.
>
> What they heck are my right meds?
>
>

 

Re: Guidance Anyone?

Posted by bulldog2 on January 24, 2010, at 14:52:40

In reply to Guidance Anyone?, posted by bleauberry on January 23, 2010, at 14:17:42

I have the terrible calf pains that started three years ago along with pains from arthritis.

Last spring I tried parnate and the calf pains disappeared. I don't know why.

Pain is often caused by muscle spasm. Muscle spasm is caused by lack of oxygen. Now andregenic meds caused blood vessel contruction. So that may be your answer.

Parnate with tegretol or trilpetal. Just read they're good combos.

Nardil if you don't have weight gain issues. Plus you get gaba reuptake. Also good for pain relief.

Or how about tramadol. Good for pain and good for depression.

 

Re: Guidance Anyone? » bulldog2

Posted by floatingbridge on January 24, 2010, at 15:13:05

In reply to Re: Guidance Anyone?, posted by bulldog2 on January 24, 2010, at 14:52:40

Bulldog, have you found parnate helpful for pain? Isn't a norigenic? Spelling :(

fb

 

Re: Guidance Anyone?

Posted by bulldog2 on January 24, 2010, at 17:36:04

In reply to Re: Guidance Anyone? » bulldog2, posted by floatingbridge on January 24, 2010, at 15:13:05

> Bulldog, have you found parnate helpful for pain? Isn't a norigenic? Spelling :(
>
> fb

Well actually no. It helped with the calf pain but I think made my arthritis pain worse. It is norandregenic but also works on dopamine and serotonin.

For pain nortriptyline and amitriptyline seem to work best. I am curious about effexor since some have said it has a structure similar to tramadol which is a pain reliever.

Cold damp weather where I live. My replaced hip is fine but the other hip is killing me!!

 

Re: Guidance Anyone?

Posted by polarbear206 on January 25, 2010, at 18:34:29

In reply to Re: Guidance Anyone?, posted by bleauberry on January 24, 2010, at 6:15:28

> > BB, What are the symptoms of your depression? Do you have a dx that is useful to know? On a scale of one to ten, or however you rate your depression, where do you feel you're at?
> >
> > fb
>
> Excellent questions. Thank you.
>
> Symptoms are primarily vegetative...easily exhausted, nonrefreshing sleep, aches and pains, anhedonia, inability to experience pleasure, social withdrawal, colorless world. Definitely 95% biological. The symptoms are also identical to what is normally seen in Lyme, Candida, and amalgam illness. Crying and despair are rare, it isn't usually that kind of depression, but can be made that way rather quickly with any psych drug not listed on my candidates list in the original post.
>
> On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the worst, I would rate myself between a 7 and a 9, varying from day to day.
>
>

I would trial Nardil first

 

Re: Guidance Anyone? » polarbear206

Posted by bleauberry on January 27, 2010, at 18:52:44

In reply to Re: Guidance Anyone?, posted by polarbear206 on January 25, 2010, at 18:34:29


> I would trial Nardil first.

Why Nardil over Parnate?

 

BB? » bleauberry

Posted by floatingbridge on February 3, 2010, at 20:14:26

In reply to Guidance Anyone?, posted by bleauberry on January 23, 2010, at 14:17:42

I'm wondering how you've been doing and how your decision making process is going.

fb


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