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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by delna on November 15, 2009, at 20:28:16
In reply to Small dose of Abilify for TRD, posted by tensor on November 15, 2009, at 14:17:49
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2446477/
>
> Could be something for me.
>
> /tensorSounds really promising.
TC
D
Posted by emmanuel98 on November 15, 2009, at 20:49:55
In reply to Re: Small dose of Abilify for TRD » emmanuel98, posted by delna on November 15, 2009, at 20:27:13
Maybe it would have plateaued if I had kept at it, but I would become dispirited from the weight gain and stop, start, stop, start. I tried all the APs and found that zyprexa and risperdal had the same effect on me -- immediate relief of depression and rapid weight gain. Seroquel and geodon had no effect at all, either on mood or weight.Now, I take parnate. It has saved my life. I was better within days of starting and have had no side effects that can't be handled.
> Wow, that's a ridiculous amount of weight gain!! From what I know the weight gain is rapid from APs but then finally plateaus out. How sad that it kept going up:(
> What do you take now?
> Tc
> D
Posted by tensor on November 16, 2009, at 7:32:01
In reply to Re: Small dose of Abilify for TRD, posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2009, at 17:35:04
> Tiny dose like that would eliminate side effects wouldn't it, and fear of TD? Phillipa.
Probably not.
Posted by obsidian on November 16, 2009, at 12:20:08
In reply to Small dose of Abilify for TRD, posted by tensor on November 15, 2009, at 14:17:49
You know, I tried abilify, went all the way up to 10mgs, but it wasn't good for me. I was too anxious on it - from the drug and/or just being me. Initially though, on the smallest dose, I felt ok, more motivated, brighter.
good luck,
sid :-)
Posted by floatingbridge on November 16, 2009, at 20:27:00
In reply to Re: Small dose of Abilify for TRD » tensor, posted by obsidian on November 16, 2009, at 12:20:08
I second Sid. I had a similar experience. Low (2mg)--good. At ten, it failed.
fb
Posted by tensor on November 17, 2009, at 8:51:32
In reply to Re: Small dose of Abilify for TRD » obsidian, posted by floatingbridge on November 16, 2009, at 20:27:00
Why didn't you stay on low dose, did it stop working?
/tensor
Posted by floatingbridge on November 17, 2009, at 18:03:44
In reply to Abilify for TRD » obsidian » floatingbridge, posted by tensor on November 17, 2009, at 8:51:32
> Why didn't you stay on low dose, did it stop working?
>
> /tensorHi Tensor,
Well, when I went to 5mg, I noticed my thumbs twitching. Before that, (at 2mg) I wasn't sure--it quieted my thoughts, but wasn't sure it felt 'right'. By 10 mg. I wasn't able to smile properly and felt very flat, emotionally.
After deciding that abilify was a failure, my doc also shortly after, changed my Dx. It had been BPnos. It became MDD TR plus c-ptsd.
I do want to add, though, that many people have been helped by abilify. This is just my personal experience.
If I had stayed on a low dose, I might have continued the Abilify.
hope this helps, and good luck.
hugs,
fb
Posted by morganator on November 20, 2009, at 0:46:24
In reply to Re: Small dose of Abilify for TRD, posted by emmanuel98 on November 15, 2009, at 20:49:55
>How often do you take parnate? I know most take it 2 or 3 times a day. I cannot space meds out properly throughout the day my schedule and life style does not permit it.
> Maybe it would have plateaued if I had kept at it, but I would become dispirited from the weight gain and stop, start, stop, start. I tried all the APs and found that zyprexa and risperdal had the same effect on me -- immediate relief of depression and rapid weight gain. Seroquel and geodon had no effect at all, either on mood or weight.
>
> Now, I take parnate. It has saved my life. I was better within days of starting and have had no side effects that can't be handled.
>
> > Wow, that's a ridiculous amount of weight gain!! From what I know the weight gain is rapid from APs but then finally plateaus out. How sad that it kept going up:(
> > What do you take now?
> > Tc
> > D
>
>
Posted by morganator on November 20, 2009, at 0:49:22
In reply to Re: Small dose of Abilify for TRD, posted by morganator on November 20, 2009, at 0:46:24
How often do you take parnate? I know most take it 2 or 3 times a day. I cannot space meds out properly throughout the day my schedule and life style does not permit it.
>
> > Maybe it would have plateaued if I had kept at it, but I would become dispirited from the weight gain and stop, start, stop, start. I tried all the APs and found that zyprexa and risperdal had the same effect on me -- immediate relief of depression and rapid weight gain. Seroquel and geodon had no effect at all, either on mood or weight.
> >
> > Now, I take parnate. It has saved my life. I was better within days of starting and have had no side effects that can't be handled.
> >
> > > Wow, that's a ridiculous amount of weight gain!! From what I know the weight gain is rapid from APs but then finally plateaus out. How sad that it kept going up:(
> > > What do you take now?
> > > Tc
> > > D
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by emmanuel98 on November 20, 2009, at 18:21:06
In reply to Re: to emanuel98, posted by morganator on November 20, 2009, at 0:49:22
I take it three times a day.
> How often do you take parnate? I know most take it 2 or 3 times a day. I cannot space meds out properly throughout the day my schedule and life style does not permit it.
Posted by mtdewcmu on November 22, 2009, at 23:51:15
In reply to Re: to emanuel98, posted by emmanuel98 on November 20, 2009, at 18:21:06
My pdoc is a big fan of Abilify. He likes to say that Pristiq + Abilify is like "rocket fuel for depression." I don't know whether that's true, because I have not taken Pristiq. He has convinced me to take Abilify, however.
My recent course of treatment has been convoluted as I have searched for a regimen that is both effective and tolerable. I was taking Paxil and Wellbutrin when my pdoc suggested adding Abilify at 1mg, to increase to 2mg as tolerated, since Paxil and Wellbutrin were not having the desired effect. When I first took the Abilify, I noticed a slight sedative effect, which I attribute to the anti-adrenergic effect. I was actually afraid that it was canceling out some of the effect of the Wellbutrin, but I continued taking it and went up to 2mg after a week. There was no noticeable effect on my mood, and unfortunately, it was not relieving my anxiety despite the slight sedative effect.
I went back for my next visit to the pdoc, and, long story short, I ended up swapping Paxil for Zoloft and adding 15mg of Remeron. Since then I have been feeling good! The only problem is that I don't know which meds are doing what. My current regimen is 300mg Wellbutrin XL, 100mg Zoloft, 15mg Remeron, and 2mg Abilify. All I know is that it is working, but I unfortunately can not tell you whether the Abilify is helping, hurting, or doing nothing.
Posted by jparsell82 on November 23, 2009, at 14:12:50
In reply to I'm taking Abilify, posted by mtdewcmu on November 22, 2009, at 23:51:15
> My pdoc is a big fan of Abilify. He likes to say that Pristiq + Abilify is like "rocket fuel for depression." I don't know whether that's true, because I have not taken Pristiq. He has convinced me to take Abilify, however.
>
> My recent course of treatment has been convoluted as I have searched for a regimen that is both effective and tolerable. I was taking Paxil and Wellbutrin when my pdoc suggested adding Abilify at 1mg, to increase to 2mg as tolerated, since Paxil and Wellbutrin were not having the desired effect. When I first took the Abilify, I noticed a slight sedative effect, which I attribute to the anti-adrenergic effect. I was actually afraid that it was canceling out some of the effect of the Wellbutrin, but I continued taking it and went up to 2mg after a week. There was no noticeable effect on my mood, and unfortunately, it was not relieving my anxiety despite the slight sedative effect.
>
> I went back for my next visit to the pdoc, and, long story short, I ended up swapping Paxil for Zoloft and adding 15mg of Remeron. Since then I have been feeling good! The only problem is that I don't know which meds are doing what. My current regimen is 300mg Wellbutrin XL, 100mg Zoloft, 15mg Remeron, and 2mg Abilify. All I know is that it is working, but I unfortunately can not tell you whether the Abilify is helping, hurting, or doing nothing.I just came across this study the other day:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17455104
Shows Abilify helps counteract the weight gain of Remeron and Remeron helps counteract the akathisia of Abilify.
I'm curious as to how this combo feels. I've gotten benefit from Abilify before(2mg) but got bad akathisia from it. I wonder if Remeron would completely relieve the akathisia and I also wonder if the Abilify would do anything for the daytime sedation caused by Remeron... interesting combo.
Posted by floatingbridge on November 23, 2009, at 17:10:36
In reply to Small dose of Abilify for TRD, posted by tensor on November 15, 2009, at 14:17:49
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2446477/
>
> Could be something for me.
>
> /tensorHey tensor, how are you doing?
fb
Posted by mtdewcmu on November 24, 2009, at 0:00:26
In reply to Re: I'm taking Abilify » mtdewcmu, posted by jparsell82 on November 23, 2009, at 14:12:50
> I just came across this study the other day:
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17455104
>
> Shows Abilify helps counteract the weight gain of Remeron and Remeron helps counteract the akathisia of Abilify.
>
> I'm curious as to how this combo feels. I've gotten benefit from Abilify before(2mg) but got bad akathisia from it. I wonder if Remeron would completely relieve the akathisia and I also wonder if the Abilify would do anything for the daytime sedation caused by Remeron... interesting combo.I am curious to know what part of Remeron's effect was beneficial for akathisia. I have a feeling it may just have been the sedation caused by the histamine blockade. However, if it turns out that Remeron is a universal antidote for akathisia, that would be very useful. I could not tolerate 150mg of Zoloft due to akathisia-like side effects; I wonder if I would be able to tolerate that amount in combination with Remeron.
Posted by tensor on November 24, 2009, at 1:25:07
In reply to Re: Small dose of Abilify for TRD » tensor, posted by floatingbridge on November 23, 2009, at 17:10:36
> Hey tensor, how are you doing?
>
> fbHi,
thanks for asking. I have not responded to my medications and actually just talked to a pdoc. We are going to quit my current meds except bupropion, then perhaps try moclobemide, not sure yet. How are you doing yourself?
/tensor
Posted by floatingbridge on November 24, 2009, at 10:46:51
In reply to Re: Small dose of Abilify for TRD » floatingbridge, posted by tensor on November 24, 2009, at 1:25:07
Tensor,
I'm sorry you haven't responded yet. How are you hanging in there? How long of a washout will you be doing? Googled moclobemide--I think it looks good. Is your pdoc thinking about what next?
I'm alright--one day at a time :-) Thanks for asking. A recent add-on of strattera has cut my anxiety, which is providing great relief.
fb
> Hi,
>
> thanks for asking. I have not responded to my medications and actually just talked to a pdoc. We are going to quit my current meds except bupropion, then perhaps try moclobemide, not sure yet. How are you doing yourself?
>
> /tensor
>
>
Posted by jparsell82 on November 24, 2009, at 21:54:35
In reply to Re: I'm taking Abilify, posted by mtdewcmu on November 24, 2009, at 0:00:26
> > I just came across this study the other day:
> >
> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17455104
> >
> > Shows Abilify helps counteract the weight gain of Remeron and Remeron helps counteract the akathisia of Abilify.
> >
> > I'm curious as to how this combo feels. I've gotten benefit from Abilify before(2mg) but got bad akathisia from it. I wonder if Remeron would completely relieve the akathisia and I also wonder if the Abilify would do anything for the daytime sedation caused by Remeron... interesting combo.
>
> I am curious to know what part of Remeron's effect was beneficial for akathisia. I have a feeling it may just have been the sedation caused by the histamine blockade. However, if it turns out that Remeron is a universal antidote for akathisia, that would be very useful. I could not tolerate 150mg of Zoloft due to akathisia-like side effects; I wonder if I would be able to tolerate that amount in combination with Remeron."Marked 5HT2A/2C antagonistic activity of mirtazapine apparently accounts for its anti-NIA activity"
That's quoted from the study I posted previously... nia stands for neuroleptic induced akathisia.
Posted by mtdewcmu on November 24, 2009, at 22:39:35
In reply to Re: I'm taking Abilify » mtdewcmu, posted by jparsell82 on November 24, 2009, at 21:54:35
> > > I just came across this study the other day:
> > >
> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17455104
> > >
> > > Shows Abilify helps counteract the weight gain of Remeron and Remeron helps counteract the akathisia of Abilify.
> > >
> > > I'm curious as to how this combo feels. I've gotten benefit from Abilify before(2mg) but got bad akathisia from it. I wonder if Remeron would completely relieve the akathisia and I also wonder if the Abilify would do anything for the daytime sedation caused by Remeron... interesting combo.
> >
> > I am curious to know what part of Remeron's effect was beneficial for akathisia. I have a feeling it may just have been the sedation caused by the histamine blockade. However, if it turns out that Remeron is a universal antidote for akathisia, that would be very useful. I could not tolerate 150mg of Zoloft due to akathisia-like side effects; I wonder if I would be able to tolerate that amount in combination with Remeron.
>
> "Marked 5HT2A/2C antagonistic activity of mirtazapine apparently accounts for its anti-NIA activity"
>
> That's quoted from the study I posted previously... nia stands for neuroleptic induced akathisia.I guess it may be worth trying 150mg of Zoloft again. I think I'd like to try increasing the Remeron first, however. I don't know why my doc only prescribed 15mg. I am afraid that the antidepressant effect I am feeling from my meds right now is too weak, and I think I may still have some headroom with this combination.
Posted by mtdewcmu on November 24, 2009, at 23:21:04
In reply to Re: I'm taking Abilify » mtdewcmu, posted by jparsell82 on November 24, 2009, at 21:54:35
I thought about it some more, and I may try increasing the Abilify first, rather than the Remeron. My reasons are too difficult to explain here.
Posted by tensor on November 25, 2009, at 0:54:42
In reply to Re: Small dose of Abilify for TRD » tensor, posted by floatingbridge on November 24, 2009, at 10:46:51
Hi,
I started to have second thoughts about moclobemide, even though there are some success stories out there it seems to have a fairly high "poop-out" rate. I'm having problems with anxiety, so like you, I'm gonna add an NRI, namely Edronax. NRIs works much better for my anxiety than SSRIs for some reasons.
I have sort of a treatment plan which involves quitting Remeron once and for all plus switching from clonazepam to Lyrica. I hope I can get enough anxiolytic effect with a high dose Zoloft, Edronax and the Lyrica. Have a look here:
http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/news/852576140048867A8525763500677879Best regards,
tensor> Tensor,
>
> I'm sorry you haven't responded yet. How are you hanging in there? How long of a washout will you be doing? Googled moclobemide--I think it looks good. Is your pdoc thinking about what next?
>
> I'm alright--one day at a time :-) Thanks for asking. A recent add-on of strattera has cut my anxiety, which is providing great relief.
>
> fb
> > Hi,
> >
> > thanks for asking. I have not responded to my medications and actually just talked to a pdoc. We are going to quit my current meds except bupropion, then perhaps try moclobemide, not sure yet. How are you doing yourself?
> >
> > /tensor
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by mtdewcmu on November 25, 2009, at 13:54:53
In reply to Re: I'm taking Abilify » mtdewcmu, posted by jparsell82 on November 23, 2009, at 14:12:50
>
> I just came across this study the other day:
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17455104
>
> Shows Abilify helps counteract the weight gain of Remeron and Remeron helps counteract the akathisia of Abilify.
>Unfortunately, that is not a very good study. It is practically impossible to draw conclusions from an open label study. The difference in efficacy they found between remeron plus abilify and remeron alone did not achieve statistical significance. And, although they claim that "the addition of aripiprazole to serotonergic antidepressant treatment options such as SSRIs or mirtazapine obviously results in a more rapid improvement of depressive symptoms in TRD," I see no sign that they determined whether the decreased latency of effect was statistically significant. Perhaps the other studies they cite there show an "obvious" improvement. But I would not base any kind of treatment decision on this study.
Posted by West on November 26, 2009, at 17:13:01
In reply to Re: I'm taking Abilify » mtdewcmu, posted by jparsell82 on November 24, 2009, at 21:54:35
Well mirtazapine caused what my doctor described as akithisia at only 7.5mg. My legs felt horrible.
> > > I just came across this study the other day:
> > >
> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17455104
> > >
> > > Shows Abilify helps counteract the weight gain of Remeron and Remeron helps counteract the akathisia of Abilify.
> > >
> > > I'm curious as to how this combo feels. I've gotten benefit from Abilify before(2mg) but got bad akathisia from it. I wonder if Remeron would completely relieve the akathisia and I also wonder if the Abilify would do anything for the daytime sedation caused by Remeron... interesting combo.
> >
> > I am curious to know what part of Remeron's effect was beneficial for akathisia. I have a feeling it may just have been the sedation caused by the histamine blockade. However, if it turns out that Remeron is a universal antidote for akathisia, that would be very useful. I could not tolerate 150mg of Zoloft due to akathisia-like side effects; I wonder if I would be able to tolerate that amount in combination with Remeron.
>
> "Marked 5HT2A/2C antagonistic activity of mirtazapine apparently accounts for its anti-NIA activity"
>
> That's quoted from the study I posted previously... nia stands for neuroleptic induced akathisia.
Posted by hopefloats on December 3, 2009, at 6:05:00
In reply to Re: Small dose of Abilify for TRD, posted by morganator on November 20, 2009, at 0:46:24
Hi - I am considering adding a small dose of Abilify to my current 30mg Lexapro, 50 mg Desipramine to hopefully help with my TRD. It's been 8 long years on every drug out there and tons of cocktail formulas, but I have not experienced any relief from this black hole I've been in. Any advice or info about how Abilify interacts with these meds or other insights are greatly appreciated! Thanks all!!
Posted by floatingbridge on December 3, 2009, at 10:23:49
In reply to Re: Small dose of Abilify for TRD » floatingbridge, posted by tensor on November 25, 2009, at 0:54:42
> Hi,
>
> I started to have second thoughts about moclobemide, even though there are some success stories out there it seems to have a fairly high "poop-out" rate. I'm having problems with anxiety, so like you, I'm gonna add an NRI, namely Edronax. NRIs works much better for my anxiety than SSRIs for some reasons.
> I have sort of a treatment plan which involves quitting Remeron once and for all plus switching from clonazepam to Lyrica. I hope I can get enough anxiolytic effect with a high dose Zoloft, Edronax and the Lyrica. Have a look here:
> http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/news/852576140048867A8525763500677879
>
> Best regards,
> tensor
>Tensor,
Have you begun your new treatment plan? I'm interested in how it goes (and is going) for you.
Strattera here upped to 80 per night. The Strattera definitely cuts the anxiety--but at this dose, wipes me out for half of the next day. (However, fatigue is a factor for me.) Guess I'll cut back and hang at 60 again.
best wishes,
fb
Posted by tensor on December 4, 2009, at 7:19:24
In reply to Re: Small dose of Abilify for TRD » tensor, posted by floatingbridge on December 3, 2009, at 10:23:49
> Tensor,
>
> Have you begun your new treatment plan? I'm interested in how it goes (and is going) for you.
>
> Strattera here upped to 80 per night. The Strattera definitely cuts the anxiety--but at this dose, wipes me out for half of the next day. (However, fatigue is a factor for me.) Guess I'll cut back and hang at 60 again.
>
> best wishes,
>
> fbHi fb,
and thanks for asking. I'm currently at 100mg Zoloft and 6mg Edronax (and clonazepam). It's been three days since I took the last dose of Remeron and I think I'm having rebound depression to some extent. I have very low energy and I'm not doing anything at all, I kind of move back and forth between bed and sofa.
Anxiety is fairly under control. I'm having an appointment with my pdoc next week and I will discuss the clonazepam/Lyrica switch with him.
Sorry to hear that Strattera makes you tired, I don't feel any fatigue from Edronax yet.Kind regards,
tensor
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