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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on November 15, 2009, at 22:20:20
Here's the thing: i grew up on stimulants, 7th grade is started Ritilin and that didnt work much and I seriously don't rerember that time, it was around 1999-2000. Went to Adderall 10mg twice daily and that improved my grades that where failing because i just had no "concept" of social interaction and amphetamine "stablizes" or stimulates something that's not stimulated and my doctor want me to go have a SPECT scan, and see what medication should be used.
In highschool and collage around 2004-2005 where a time when I mistook them, which was a stupid descion that lead to this crisis. High school I took 30mg twice daily, then I went to 30mg XR twice daily because they just said it's more smoothe than the immidate release. This also why Dexedrine Spansules where very effective, yet I don't know if they would ever be considered again, i'm getting a hint their not but they where the "most" effective in treating socialization, getting me out of "isolation". My doctor is just very "hesitant" on medications that have "addiction potential" which is completely understandable, because there is a "risk" if you mistake them. And I would have to sign a document saying It's not their responsiblity yet these medications [stimulants] are the only effective treatment because I've taken Strattera, Currently on Bupropion in a diffrent relase form [wellbutrin], and clonodine, which just lowered blood pressure.
I don't know, see it's someone that is very close to me that does not approve of stimulants because in terms it was seen as an "addiction" yet I've tried to justify it in that taking it daily, how does it differ from taking other daily meds? the thing is.."abuse potential" and if it's ever considered again, I would take it from a pharmacy because I don't trust myself with impulse, or take from someone who will dispense it that is maybe a family member, because my mother will not.
In my work I do, i worked for my brother for a while and I took Dexedrine Spansules, the only reason that they where...he wrote a "final" last one and said go to "rehab' and then will work things out. Someone that lives with me never went back to him because she does not approve of it. The only thing is just taking this medication "correctly". And alot of times when your past the age of 18 years old, this medication is considered "speed", yet it anger's me that it's given to younger's and then they have problems with it later when they grow up.
That's all my say, please have some postive feedback and understand, but i will listen to your responses.
rj
Posted by JohnnyBLinux on November 15, 2009, at 23:59:17
In reply to Deterieting from nonstimulant treatment, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on November 15, 2009, at 22:20:20
I understand your anger. But first things first...
I had to stop treatment with a large provider of mental health services because they do not treat attention disorders with the right medication. They instead use off-label cocktails, cross their fingers, and hope the next three months works for the best.
It is unethical and bad medicine, IMO, to deny someone safe, FDA-approved medication under proper medical supervision. I can say this because I have taken the non-stimulant road before, and it failed. I tried the non-stimulant road recently with a certain large provider, and it failed . . . again. I told them it failed in the past, (i.e. Wellbutrin) but did they listen, no. Still, I trusted that they knew what they were doing. Well, they may know what they're doing, but it was too "experimental" ...and I will not squander my life away participating in "experimental" medicine.
Rhetorically speaking, should I trust a provider if I know that I'm being heard, but the words hit a wall and fall to the floor like a fish drowning out of water?
rockj, we have one life to live. Demand they treat you with safe, FDA-approved medicine for your condition, or seek treatment elsewhere, if you can. Above all else, to abuse your medicine. Don't take handfull at time or anything foolish like that. Find a way to regain their trust.
Sure, some people call Ritalin speed. If Ritalin is speed, then what is caffeine? What are MAOIs? Are they called speed?
Oh, and you now what, some people see the glass as half empty. People who call Ritailn and Dexedrine speed are people who see the glass as half empty.
Beware of the naysayers. Be alert to scare tactics.
Take care!
The lesson that I have learned is to trust myself, trust my judgment, even in the face of great adversity. A certain large mental health provider almost lead me down another cycle of bad mojo, and I am glad I have the courage and soundness of mind to leave to pursue what works for me.
Posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2009, at 0:13:06
In reply to Re: Deterieting from nonstimulant treatment, posted by JohnnyBLinux on November 15, 2009, at 23:59:17
Johnny well said. Phillipa
Posted by bulldog2 on November 16, 2009, at 12:14:09
In reply to Deterieting from nonstimulant treatment, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on November 15, 2009, at 22:20:20
> Here's the thing: i grew up on stimulants, 7th grade is started Ritilin and that didnt work much and I seriously don't rerember that time, it was around 1999-2000. Went to Adderall 10mg twice daily and that improved my grades that where failing because i just had no "concept" of social interaction and amphetamine "stablizes" or stimulates something that's not stimulated and my doctor want me to go have a SPECT scan, and see what medication should be used.
>
> In highschool and collage around 2004-2005 where a time when I mistook them, which was a stupid descion that lead to this crisis. High school I took 30mg twice daily, then I went to 30mg XR twice daily because they just said it's more smoothe than the immidate release. This also why Dexedrine Spansules where very effective, yet I don't know if they would ever be considered again, i'm getting a hint their not but they where the "most" effective in treating socialization, getting me out of "isolation". My doctor is just very "hesitant" on medications that have "addiction potential" which is completely understandable, because there is a "risk" if you mistake them. And I would have to sign a document saying It's not their responsiblity yet these medications [stimulants] are the only effective treatment because I've taken Strattera, Currently on Bupropion in a diffrent relase form [wellbutrin], and clonodine, which just lowered blood pressure.
>
> I don't know, see it's someone that is very close to me that does not approve of stimulants because in terms it was seen as an "addiction" yet I've tried to justify it in that taking it daily, how does it differ from taking other daily meds? the thing is.."abuse potential" and if it's ever considered again, I would take it from a pharmacy because I don't trust myself with impulse, or take from someone who will dispense it that is maybe a family member, because my mother will not.
>
> In my work I do, i worked for my brother for a while and I took Dexedrine Spansules, the only reason that they where...he wrote a "final" last one and said go to "rehab' and then will work things out. Someone that lives with me never went back to him because she does not approve of it. The only thing is just taking this medication "correctly". And alot of times when your past the age of 18 years old, this medication is considered "speed", yet it anger's me that it's given to younger's and then they have problems with it later when they grow up.
>
> That's all my say, please have some postive feedback and understand, but i will listen to your responses.
>
> rjThe bottm line is the non-stimulants are not nearly as effecttive as the stims. Strattera works for some and wellbutrin works for some but just not nearly the percentage that respond to stims.
Opiates probably work better and faster for depression than most of the junk out there.
But these doctors are worried about abuse and addiction which are definitely possible. They're afraid they may get in trouble and lose their license. So I can understand their hestancy with these meds.
So maybe a system where you get your stims doled out on a weekly basis or some system that makes it harder to abuse the meds.
Posted by conundrum on November 17, 2009, at 6:49:50
In reply to Re: Deterieting from nonstimulant treatment, posted by bulldog2 on November 16, 2009, at 12:14:09
How do all these people know you are taking it? Can't you go take it in the bathroom and hide the bottle so you're family doesn't know you have it?
Also I agree, most antidepressants have some withdrawal potential and then people go back into a depression or something worse. So then they go back on for life. If thats not an addiction I don't know what is.
Posted by maxime on November 17, 2009, at 11:38:06
In reply to Re: Deterieting from nonstimulant treatment » bulldog2, posted by conundrum on November 17, 2009, at 6:49:50
But he shouldn't be taking it because he has abused stims in the past.
Sorry RJ.
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on November 18, 2009, at 16:03:45
In reply to Re: Deterieting from nonstimulant treatment, posted by JohnnyBLinux on November 15, 2009, at 23:59:17
I've called my doctor about not being able to focus and the options are to either go to 522mg on Aplenzin [another form of wellbutrin]. Strattera has been used about twice before and seriously the first time I tried it, i wanted it to work, i did notice some attention and alertness where more after about 4-5 weeks. Yet at the time I was taking Adderall XR 30mg twice daily, because I had Horrid grades, and it helped. What happened was the "stupidy" of abusing something that eventually is going to cause a 'effect' from doing that, i just look back and say that was "stupid" and I have alot of innerteroil against myself because it was all impulsivity and not being a responsible person. Yet this medication was the vary thing, that...like Parnate, people with depression that medication is very effective yet it's only used when other treatement's have failed, I take Prozac 60mg and Aplenzin 322mg [wellbutrin] and that helps some, but it doesnt bring you up to a level that it increases productivity, it just keeps you from depression. Yet sometimes If you get a mindstate that you feel "hopeless" and start feeling sad, antidepressant's can't work unless change of mind is there.
What my doctor recommeneded, and i don't know if it's going to happen is getting a SPECT scan and actually "looking" where dopamine levels are low, and if a stimulant is needed from the readings then he said he would prescibe it, yet I think you have to sign a contract that you will take it correct and the side effect's are not responsible to the presciber because of risk. Seriously, this is just silly because I take all medications correctly, it's just those [stimulants] that I over took and it just got a bad rep, and I paid for it.
My doctor does tend, if there is a risk of abuse, which it's like this....if you have risk of "speeding" in the car, insurace will go up, maybe you will stop "speeding" and do exactly what the law say's but you still have to pay the price of risk. And that's a bad analogy to say this medication is "speed" because there are people who say...it is yet it's the only correctly thing that helps with function to a normal level.
Things I do, are so messy and lose, the social relms are hard because there is just not something stimulanted in the brain, and amphetamine corrected this imbalance.
Also on scare tactic's that some psychiatric hospital's use, one time I had to commit myself because I just couldnt function, and they saw the Xanax dosage that I took, immididatly she said "so, rj...have you been taking too much Xanax?" no...that's the prescibed amount. I get what you mean by scare tactic's yet it didnt convice her anyother other way because people who are stingy in belief, usally stay that way.
Thanks!
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on November 18, 2009, at 16:06:59
In reply to Re: Deterieting from nonstimulant treatment » JohnnyBLinux, posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2009, at 0:13:06
thanks phillipa
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on November 18, 2009, at 16:17:36
In reply to Re: Deterieting from nonstimulant treatment, posted by bulldog2 on November 16, 2009, at 12:14:09
that sounds like a plan yet i don't know if my doctor would do this yet. You know could you take it from a pharmacy daily.....i would do it.
Strattera improved attention yet yes it wasnt as effective as stimulants. I take Wellbutrin and I just have to hope that It will work yet it as very weak properties as a stimulant.
Thanks
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on November 18, 2009, at 16:21:28
In reply to Re: Deterieting from nonstimulant treatment » bulldog2, posted by conundrum on November 17, 2009, at 6:49:50
No I have to let my family know what's going on because, really hiding in secret's will double the reptuation of links to other things, and plus they just need to know what's effective for me. Yet their not my doctor my family is successful and has seen what addiction can do, yet at this point I would take it from a pharmacy or a trusted family member, yet I don't know if that's every going to happen.
I have to get a SPECT scan, but I don't know when I can do it because it is very expensive but to see what's going on inside my head would be great.
Thanks, appriciate your post
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on November 18, 2009, at 16:28:09
In reply to Re: Deterieting from nonstimulant treatment » conundrum, posted by maxime on November 17, 2009, at 11:38:06
Yes, that's the situation right now, I don't take stimulants, and that's cause and effect and I just didnt think that this would happen, it's kinda in the moment, like when I used to spend money like crazy i didnt care about time after words, I just wanted "that" product, or food at the moment, it's impuslivty. So i'm keepin that money in the bank..
You know, there is an example when you speed and you get a ticket because it was found, your insurance goes up, relate that to the medication but I hate to call it "speed", it calms me down, actaully somtimes at low doses stimulants make me depressed by inhibiting dopamine and slowing the firing rates, yet at higher doses which are "recreational" it increases dopamine firing much more, which will "burn out" your dopamine transporter's. So, I've pretty much understand the cause and effect from now on, if it ever is prescibed again, just hold on to faith, and take it right. The reason I would take more, was because it sustained attention and focus over long periods which i lack much, and I was working for my brother and that required alot of alertness.
Thanks Maxime, have a good day.
Posted by dade on November 19, 2009, at 23:27:56
In reply to Re: Deterieting from nonstimulant treatment, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on November 18, 2009, at 16:28:09
> Yes, that's the situation right now, I don't take stimulants, and that's cause and effect and I just didnt think that this would happen, it's kinda in the moment, like when I used to spend money like crazy i didnt care about time after words, I just wanted "that" product, or food at the moment, it's impuslivty. So i'm keepin that money in the bank..
>
> You know, there is an example when you speed and you get a ticket because it was found, your insurance goes up, relate that to the medication but I hate to call it "speed", it calms me down, actaully somtimes at low doses stimulants make me depressed by inhibiting dopamine and slowing the firing rates, yet at higher doses which are "recreational" it increases dopamine firing much more, which will "burn out" your dopamine transporter's. So, I've pretty much understand the cause and effect from now on, if it ever is prescibed again, just hold on to faith, and take it right. The reason I would take more, was because it sustained attention and focus over long periods which i lack much, and I was working for my brother and that required alot of alertness.
>
> Thanks Maxime, have a good day.So your not taking 3 spans 15mg a day aanymore?. You did admit you abused Adderall for years so theres reason there for family, Docs to avoid stims.
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on November 21, 2009, at 14:47:48
In reply to Re: Deterieting from nonstimulant treatment » rjlockhart04-08, posted by dade on November 19, 2009, at 23:27:56
just taking it right and not having a mindset to take another when you think you need it...is just important. It really got a big issue when misuse was stated, but i'm glad the truth came out.
Thanks..
This is the end of the thread.
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