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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on October 25, 2009, at 20:51:38
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » cactus, posted by Maxime on October 25, 2009, at 20:01:16
I'm sorry you have limited choices. I really am. Love Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on October 25, 2009, at 22:38:35
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on October 25, 2009, at 20:51:38
I'm so f*ck*d. I can tell that I won't be sleeping tonight.
Posted by Phidippus on October 25, 2009, at 22:53:53
In reply to Sleep suggestions please, posted by Maxime on October 25, 2009, at 17:04:33
Clonidine
Prazosin
Cyproheptadine
HydroxozineThose will all knock you out.
P
Posted by Sunbath on October 26, 2009, at 7:20:14
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please, posted by Phidippus on October 25, 2009, at 23:53:53
Hey Maxime,
how did you sleep that night?
I'm very sorry you're suffering so. Insomnia is such a terrible problem effecting all day life :(Did you try taking trazodone with the Ativan?
Hydroxyzine is dirty and a SRI so should be careful I think.
Good luck, hang in there, you WILL get better and there are still options left. Like combining 2 benzos what Scott did and suggested multiple times.
Posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 12:50:40
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please, posted by Sunbath on October 26, 2009, at 7:20:14
Posted by Sunbath on October 26, 2009, at 13:04:07
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please, posted by Sunbath on October 26, 2009, at 7:20:14
Sorry was talking nonsense, I don't know why I thought hydroxyzine had sri properties, I was so sure (was taking that drug before) :D
Nonsense!
Posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 13:16:46
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please (nm), posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 12:50:40
I'm the one writing nonesense, or not writing at all. What I meant to write is that I ended up taking 8 mg of Ativan last night and now I am tripping on my toes. I need to find something better.
Posted by Sunbath on October 26, 2009, at 13:46:55
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » maxime, posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 13:16:46
:(
I think I remember you saying something about that you cannot or don't want to take any amitriptyline, or mirtazapine is that true? Otherwise I'd suggest that, or mirtazapine or mianserine.
Have you thought of trying low dose doxepine or another strong antihistamine? Maybe a combination?
A benzo with an even shorter half life that doesn't leave you foggy the whole next day? A combo with trazodone?
Posted by Sigismund on October 26, 2009, at 15:58:56
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » maxime, posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 13:16:46
Temazepam would be better than lorazepam, wouldn't it?
Posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 16:19:50
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » maxime, posted by Sunbath on October 26, 2009, at 13:46:55
> :(
> I think I remember you saying something about that you cannot or don't want to take any amitriptyline, or mirtazapine is that true? Otherwise I'd suggest that, or mirtazapine or mianserine.
> Have you thought of trying low dose doxepine or another strong antihistamine? Maybe a combination?
> A benzo with an even shorter half life that doesn't leave you foggy the whole next day? A combo with trazodone?Amitriptaline doesn't make me tired in the least.
Hum, maybe doxepin. Does that work well?
I don't want to take Mirtazapine because of the weight gain and my anorexia.
My pdoc was suppose to get back to me today, but he didn't. I was hoping he would have a plan B.
Thanks for your suggestions.
Posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 16:20:37
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please, posted by Sigismund on October 26, 2009, at 15:58:56
Temazapam does nothing to me. I just lay there. Maybe benzos are the answer.
Posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 16:23:22
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » maxime, posted by Sunbath on October 26, 2009, at 13:46:55
How much Doxepin would you recommend given that it takes a lot to knock me out?
Posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 18:39:25
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » Sunbath, posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 16:23:22
Sigh. My doctor never contacted me. :(
Posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 18:51:27
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please, posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 18:39:25
How much Doxepin if I go with Doxepin. 25 mg?
Posted by cactus on October 26, 2009, at 21:12:12
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please, posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 18:51:27
Hey Maxime, Mogadon is one of the most powerful hypnotic benzo's available, 2nd to Rohypnol and very closely related.
Mogadon (nitrazepam)
Rohypnol (flunitrazepam)It's the best for severe insomnia. If you can get it in your country, just get some. I've used it on and off for years. Nothing beats it except for Rohypnol which you can still get here too but it's like asking for heroin.
Mogadon is by far the best hypnotic benzo on the market unless your country still allows the use of rohypnol.
It does make you a bit drowsy the next day but it's nothing like the bloody awful feeling you get from AP's and TCA's which I hate!!!!!
I think you'd have much better luck getting Mogadon than barbituates. I'm sure you've tried Valium or Rivotril/Klonopin (clonazepam), they can help too. Clonazepam is also the 3rd benzo from that class, but it's hypnotic effects aren't as strong, it more of an anxiety/epileptic, whereas mogadon is a hypnotic/epileptic benzo
Good luck and sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, freaky time zone difference. Peace C
Posted by maxime on October 27, 2009, at 0:10:39
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » maxime, posted by cactus on October 26, 2009, at 21:12:12
I'm going to try. The database that has all the meds in it is down so I can't see if it's available. Thank you so much for your suggestions.
Posted by maxime on October 27, 2009, at 0:11:30
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » maxime, posted by cactus on October 26, 2009, at 21:12:12
No sleep tonight. I took 8 mg of Ativian at 10 pm and it's not 1:15 pm. Shite.
Posted by cactus on October 27, 2009, at 0:22:23
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please, posted by maxime on October 27, 2009, at 0:11:30
No problem at all, can you get to your doc tomorrow? Insomnia blows. Good luck!!!
Posted by ColoradoSnowflake on October 27, 2009, at 1:37:51
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » maxime, posted by cactus on October 27, 2009, at 0:22:23
Hi Maxie:
I'm sorry I don't know much of anything about sleep meds. I just wanted you to know I'm sorry you are having such a rough time with sleeping. That's a real bummer. I wish I had a magic wand.
I hope you and/or your doc come up with something soon. I don't think you want to mess around with Ativan very much.
There has got to be something out there that will work. I'm crossing my fingers.Hugs to you,
Gayle
Posted by cactus on October 27, 2009, at 1:51:38
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please, posted by maxime on October 27, 2009, at 0:11:30
> No sleep tonight. I took 8 mg of Ativian at 10 pm and it's not 1:15 pm. Shite.
Ativan does nothing for me either, I'd take 3 or 4, 2.5mg tabs and nothing, whereas my sister would be out cold from 1 of them, same with temazepam and serax/serapax. They just don't work on me at all. Hang in there, it will be OK! I know how horrible and scary it is when you're on the edge from sleep deprivation. You'll get through this. Peace C
Posted by Sunbath on October 27, 2009, at 4:43:27
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » maxime, posted by cactus on October 27, 2009, at 1:51:38
Hi Maxime,
I really feel with you, that's so terrible :(
You gotta get something now.
Ativan is not especially known for its sedating qualities.. it's one of the least sedating benzos I believe.
I might be wrong, but when Scott suggested halcion + ativan, I think he considered Ativan more as an augmentor for the hypnotic (Halcion)?Doxepine was in phase 3 trials as "silenor" for use as a sleep aid (promoted as nearly "side effect free".. which was no wonder at the doses used) where they used only 1-7mg when I remember correctly. I don't know what happened to Silenor and whether it got an approval or not.
I once tried 25mg and it knocked me out, but was also foggy the next day (that may have passed) which I didn't like.
25mg to me, which doesn't mean much ;) , sounds like a good dose to start when you are so "treatment resistent".Maybe a synergistic combination would do it?
Do antihistamines make you tired at all?
Did you ever try a "pure" one maybe as an otc sleep aid and did it help? I just wonder because you said amitriptyline wasn't sedating you at all and I think ami's sedating properties mostly come from its H1 antagonistic properties.. Anyway it's also a potent nri so that could have countered the sedation in your case? I don't know..
Did you once take mirtazapine or did you avoid it from the beginning because of the weight gain issue?If you tried it: did it make you tired back then?
If it was, maybe a combination of an antihistamine + trazodone (which is very weak as an antihistamine) or another sedating AD would do it?
Since trazodone was helping you in the past, did you try taking it with the benzo? Although there are no interactions it might add to the sleep promoting effect?BTW: It's probably b*llsh*t and just a crazy idea, but I just got it and wanted to share, maybe someone more experienced could tell what she/he thinks:
I once tried baclofen a GABA-B agonist. It made me really REALLY tired and ready for sleep. Just like a benzo it relaxed muscles and made me extremely drowsy and sleepy.
Maybe it's a stupid idea and I don't really know if it was even harmful.
But I'd really wonder if there wasn't some kind of synergism when combining that with a benzo (gaba-a agent + gaba-b agonist?).
However maybe a sedating antidepressant + an antihistamine + maybe trazodone (for synergism) would be much better than just benzos.
Doxepine, as you probably know anyway, is also a big weight gainer :( There is no sedating antidepressant that doesn't "officially" cause weight gain, except trazodone I believe. But maybe it wouldn't cause weight gain in YOU, especially not when only on a low dose? I really don't know.I really hope you get in touch with your doc today and that he'll know what to do!
Try not to feel too sad and hopeless about your insomnia. There are so many options left you can try. You will find something that works, I'm sure!!Keeping my fingers crossed for you!The best of luck!
Posted by Maxime on October 27, 2009, at 16:20:32
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please, posted by Sunbath on October 27, 2009, at 4:43:27
I am going to try Mogadon and/or Dalmane. I wasn't sure from my doctor email if I would be on them both.
Hopefully I will be able get them tomorrow.
I'm a mess.
Posted by Maxime on October 27, 2009, at 17:04:07
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please, posted by Maxime on October 27, 2009, at 16:20:32
I don't need to go to the hospital. But I about 15 2 mg of Ativan last to end the pain of not being able to sleep. Results were that I woke up at 3:30 pm with my mum yelling at me. If she hadn't been yelling I probably would still be asleep.
Sleep meds are so dangerous. I just wanted to relief. I didn't want to die but if I had it would have been nice.
Just be careful out there with those meds.
Posted by cactus on October 27, 2009, at 17:33:51
In reply to Confession to make ... I OD'd, posted by Maxime on October 27, 2009, at 17:04:07
maybe you should go to the hospital to get checked out right now. Concerned C
Posted by Maxime on October 27, 2009, at 17:43:15
In reply to Re: Confession to make ... I OD'd » Maxime, posted by cactus on October 27, 2009, at 17:33:51
No, I am alert now. Getting ready to go and walk the dog. There is only so much they can do after a number of hours have past and this was at 12:30 am. I am going to get more careful tonight. I was just feeling so desperate and I was hearing voices. I don't hear the voices any more. My pdoc is supposed to phone in a prescription for Modogon. He said he uses it often. Last of sleep is nothing to play with. Thanks for caring.
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