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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Biges on October 22, 2009, at 3:25:26
Hi!
I'd like to ask you for some ideas or suggestions about my problem.
I have trouble falling asleep and sometimes I wake up and could not fall asleep again. I just can't get relaxed enough, my mind is always working, thinking about this and that (I have a mild ADHD), but the core problem seems this thinking:
"Oh no! I will not fall asleep! And I have to get up in the morning to go to work. *Must* try to be relaxed and not think about not able to fall asleep."Of course, with this it is hard to sleep (I have to wake up at 8:15). So I take Zolpidem to sleep - 0.5-1 tablet. I had had often trouble with the morning waking up and inability to fall asleep. But I managed to somehow work with the morning wakes: "OK, I'll not fall asleep again, but at least I can lie in the bed for some time." This relaxed state usually makes me fall asleep again :)
I sleep quite well when I don't have to wake up at the morning - Friday, Saturday and holidays, of course. No need for any medication - "So I can't sleep, no need to worry, I can sleep all day long." Also going to bed more lately help (~2-3 hours at the morning).
My psychiatrist suggested a group therapy for insomniacs, but I doubt how this can help. Not to mention I'm usually quite tired after work to travel somewhere and listen to whining of people like me.
Some notes:
- One more problem with sleeping - it is worse when the temperature is higher, in summer I can't sleep without a fan. And at the morning I often wake up with the feeling like my body temperature is high. Maybe it is related to my hypothyroidism, but it is cures with 75 mcg of Levothyroxine and the thyroid gland hormones levels in my blood are perfectly normal.
- The sleep quality does not depend on whatever I do in the day before. I can sport all day and still sleep quite badly and I can play computer games all day long and I can sleep like a baby.
- I don't use any drugs including alcohol and tobacco.
- I have good job, excellent family relations and some hobbies I like.
- I'm very sensitive to noises (probably ADHD related).
- I'm from Czechia, so the selection of medications is different from what is available in the USA, usually not to rich. For example I read some nice things about Clonidine, but this is not even registered in our country, probably nobody even asked for a registration. And all these internet shops selling it are probably fakes.The background:
I have the problem with insomnia for several months. It starter at this spring - I couldn't fall asleep, wake up early. At first I feared depression is coming back, but it luckily isn't the case.
My doc prescribed me Trazodone (they like this medication, don't they?), I gradually raised the dosage to 150, where it made me quite sedated, even after waking up, but in the end it hadn't helped. So I just take 100, it doesn't help, it doesn't hurt.
Doc than suggested Remeron, a very low dosage, but I read about its side effects like day time somnolence and sedation (I HATE this) and weight gain (nobody likes this way either), so I fear to start taking it.
I even tried Melatonin in tabs, also hadn't help.
So I just take Zolpidem, which is quite OK (I get it from another doc), but I'd like to find another solution never the less. I can take Zolpidem, but I somehow feel it like a personal failure I can sleep properly without meds, although I'd not consider the same person in my situation as failing, it's just that irrational feel of guilt.
Posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2009, at 12:12:54
In reply to Insomnia - what to do with it? (no depression), posted by Biges on October 22, 2009, at 3:25:26
You kind of remind me of me as that used to be the way I slept. Guilty for staying up late, out of synch with the rest of the world. You did mention depression in the past. Some say anxiety preceeds depression. Some that they are separate conditions. Do you feel depression is coming back? Age? Other than that you sound quite normal to me. You seem to have found ways to deal with the insomnia. And function well during the day. My solution for fearing getting up in the am and it worked when I was working was to work from 3-ll. That way I had the best of both worlds. Sleep late, do some stuff before work. Then go to bed around lam. Now not working and up til 3 and it's horrible as breakfast is lunch for others. Phillipa and welcome to babble.
Posted by cactus on October 22, 2009, at 18:23:57
In reply to Insomnia - what to do with it? (no depression), posted by Biges on October 22, 2009, at 3:25:26
Have you tried herbal tea's, I had no luck with herbal sleeping pills but I have found 2 herbal tea's, both made from the company called Celestial Seasonings. Sleepytime tea and Tension Tamer work quite well for me.
If I have really bad insomnia Zoldipem doesn't work for me, I have to use Mogadon (Nitrazepam) It makes you a bit sleepy the next day but nothing a cup of coffee and a hot shower in the morning wont fix. I too hate that drugged feeling the next day, and mogadon can do this but it's not as bad as other meds for me. I'm not from the US either so maybe this is available for you. It's not avaliable in the US. If you do try it, I'm sure you will only need half a pill. Good luck. C
Posted by linkadge on October 22, 2009, at 20:09:43
In reply to Re: Insomnia - what to do with it? (no depression), posted by cactus on October 22, 2009, at 18:23:57
Celestial Seasonings > Sleepytime tea
I have used this exact product. I found it very effective.
Linkadge
Posted by zzzz7 on October 25, 2009, at 0:59:18
In reply to Insomnia - what to do with it? (no depression), posted by Biges on October 22, 2009, at 3:25:26
If Ambien is working for you, why not keep taking it? I certainly would. Not being able to sleep isn't, as you say, a moral failing at all.
Posted by Biges on October 25, 2009, at 17:56:01
In reply to Re: Insomnia - what to do with it? (no depression), posted by cactus on October 22, 2009, at 18:23:57
Thanks, cactus! I tried various herbal pills and a tea. But I'll check the brands you do recommend and compare its composition with what's available here :)
I agree, Zolpidem is quite weak. I know Nitrazepam, it is available here, but it is too long acting for my needs. I have Midazolam instead(Dormicum), which is a benzodiazepine with a very short half life. But despite this I have some morning somnolence from it. However I sometimes take it.
Posted by Biges on October 25, 2009, at 18:03:21
In reply to Re: Insomnia - what to do with it? (no depression) » Biges, posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2009, at 12:12:54
Hi Phillipia, I recall you being a long time helper here, aren't you? :-)
Well, maybe this is just that living in a center of a city is just quite exhausting. Moving into a more relaxing neighborhood could help. But that means money. And flats in Prague are quite expensive.
During my university studie I was used to study and work at night, so I'm just unable now to adjust my biological clock (after a year of full time job). That was one of the reasons to find a normal job, i.e. not to work from home, so I have to wake up at the same time each working day.
Hm. Seems to me that sleep problems are as long as the artificial light.
> You kind of remind me of me as that used to be the way I slept. Guilty for staying up late, out of synch with the rest of the world. You did mention depression in the past. Some say anxiety preceeds depression. Some that they are separate conditions. Do you feel depression is coming back? Age? Other than that you sound quite normal to me. You seem to have found ways to deal with the insomnia. And function well during the day. My solution for fearing getting up in the am and it worked when I was working was to work from 3-ll. That way I had the best of both worlds. Sleep late, do some stuff before work. Then go to bed around lam. Now not working and up til 3 and it's horrible as breakfast is lunch for others. Phillipa and welcome to babble.
Posted by Biges on October 25, 2009, at 18:09:48
In reply to Re: Insomnia - what to do with it? (no depression), posted by zzzz7 on October 25, 2009, at 0:59:18
Thanks zzzz7!
Well, this is something I plan to do until I find a better solution. As both my GP and psychiatrist tend to offer a psychotherapy, in other words to just move my problem to another specialist (hard to blame them, they have plenty of patients which need more attention), I try to find help and advices from people, which actually have personal experience with such things.
Well, time to go to bed, my nowadays nemesis, so I can go to work at morning to build a better future. If not for the communism, than at least for me :-)
> If Ambien is working for you, why not keep taking it? I certainly would. Not being able to sleep isn't, as you say, a moral failing at all.
Posted by zzzz7 on October 25, 2009, at 19:28:24
In reply to Re: Insomnia - what to do with it? (no depression), posted by Biges on October 25, 2009, at 18:09:48
You're welcome. You might find something like amitriptyline helpful, too. Just trying to think of non-standard sleep drugs. The two obvious choices are Ambien/Lunesta/Sonata and Trazodone. (Rozerem is supposed to work well, though didn't do so for me.)
This is the end of the thread.
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