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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Sunbath on October 15, 2009, at 6:36:17
Hi,
while Parnate is helping me a LOT with pretty much everything, I'm still lethargic and a bit tired during the afternoon.. later at night I get really alert and awake though it's really bad. Also I have a bit hypotension and together with the tiredness it prevents me pretty much from doing exercises or doing work..
So I finally ordered some adrafinil.. is there anything I should watch out for?
How serious are the liver problems?
What is the equivalent (Provigil) to 300mg Adrafinil?
There are only 300mg.. isn't that a higher dose?
I'd like to try the equivalent to about 50-100mg Provigil..
Thank you :)
Posted by Sunbath on October 15, 2009, at 6:38:51
In reply to Olmifon/Adrafinil dosing, ill effects?, posted by Sunbath on October 15, 2009, at 6:36:17
is modafinil/adrafinil also known to cause tolerance like methylphenidat or amphetamine?
Thanks!
Posted by bleauberry on October 15, 2009, at 17:01:26
In reply to Olmifon/Adrafinil dosing, ill effects?, posted by Sunbath on October 15, 2009, at 6:36:17
I was on Adrafinil for several years, along with Prozac and Zyprexa. I liked it a lot better than Provigil, but other people like Provigil better. It is an individual trial thing to discover.
I don't think there is an accurate way to do a dose comparison. It migth be ballpark, but the drugs are different, despite being almost identical molecularly.
I started at 150mg, worked up to 600mg, and then dropped down to 300mg where I stayed for years.
Adrafinil works similar to ADs. That is, it can have an immediate energy boost, mood boost, and maybe some aggravation irritation overstimulation thing, and some tiredness afterward sort of like a crash. This goes away in less than a week, or upon reducing the dose, and then to me it became invisible. I couldn't feel anything from it. But everything I had read said it needed at least a month, two months better, three months even better. So I kept taking it.
Sure enough, about 6 weeks later I realized I had good energy, clear-headed, good performance and creativity, motivation, pleasure, and socialness. It overcame the blah apathy of SSRIs pretty well, but it took a while. I never really felt it kick in all of sudden, it just kind of snuck up on me gradually.
I don't think there is any research on combining it with MAOI, and I doubt hardly any anecdotal experience either. So I would go easy. Maybe 75mg for a few days, 150mg, 225mg, work up with a sense of respect for the unknown. It could turn out to be great, and it might not. But you want it to be controlled and careful regardless.
For the liver thing, take Milk Thistle extract everyday and/or get a liver function test 3 times per year. I got my liver tested twice or three times per year but it was always fine. My dose was low at 300mg, so that probably helped.
If you are looking for something that will kick in fast like a stimulant, I think it would be unrealistic to expect that of Adrafinil. You might feel some of that the first couple days, but it works over a period of weeks and months, not days or hours.
Posted by Sunbath on October 16, 2009, at 3:45:57
In reply to Re: Olmifon/Adrafinil dosing, ill effects?, posted by bleauberry on October 15, 2009, at 17:01:26
Hey thanks a lot Bleauberry for so much detailed informations!
I'm a little bit confused though.. you said that Adrafinil gets better over the first weeks you take it, but I shouldn't expect a stimulant effect except maybe for the first few days?
Will it get stimulating long term then?
If I got it right it sounds ideal to me.. I don't want a stimulant that "kicks in fast", feels like a drug and develops tolerance in me.. it sounds far better to have something that almost works like someone would expect it from an antidepressant :)Regarding the milk thistle: that sounds great if it prevents liver damage to some extent, thanks a lot for this tip. But would you also tell me a good preparation I should buy, or is it not so important to chose the "right" extract like with st.john's wort and other standardized, patented extracts? Are there some characteristics (potency, or solvent used) the extract I buy should meet?
Thank you!!
Posted by bleauberry on October 16, 2009, at 17:50:13
In reply to Re: Olmifon/Adrafinil dosing, ill effects? » bleauberry, posted by Sunbath on October 16, 2009, at 3:45:57
> Hey thanks a lot Bleauberry for so much detailed informations!
You're welcome! Hey, we're all here to share information and support as best we can.
>
> I'm a little bit confused though.. you said that Adrafinil gets better over the first weeks you take it, but I shouldn't expect a stimulant effect except maybe for the first few days?Yes that is correct. My experience as well as the general reports on the internet.
> Will it get stimulating long term then?
Yes and no. It is like a stimulant on demand. It doesn't feel like it is there unless you have a need for stimulation, and then the stimulation is present because the alpha-1 receptors are easily stimulated when needed, but not when not needed. Kind of like Viagra...it won't do anything without arousal. Will Viagra automatically make a man hard? Well, without stimulation, usually no. With stimulation, usually yes quite so.
> If I got it right it sounds ideal to me.. I don't want a stimulant that "kicks in fast", feels like a drug and develops tolerance in me.. it sounds far better to have something that almost works like someone would expect it from an antidepressant :)
That's pretty much my experience with it as well as what is reported from most people who have used it for a least a couple or more months. It becomes invisible. But as you look around at yourself and compare to how you used to be months ago, it becomes obvious you have more energy and performance than you used to but you aren't aware it is drug-induced. Theory is that it is the alpha-1 receptors re-adapted to be more sensitive.
>
> Regarding the milk thistle: that sounds great if it prevents liver damage to some extent, thanks a lot for this tip. But would you also tell me a good preparation I should buy, or is it not so important to chose the "right" extract like with st.john's wort and other standardized, patented extracts? Are there some characteristics (potency, or solvent used) the extract I buy should meet?I think most brands on the market are of good quality. Look for ones with specified amounts of the active ingredient. Look for capsules.
>
>
> Thank you!!
But again, the MAOI component makes all of this deserve respect and caution, especially in the early days/weeks. There is not enough research on the MAOIs to predict interactions or reactions with many substances, other than the obvious known ones. I personally do not see much risk here, but if it were me I would certainly approach with respect. For example the 75mg starting dose of Adrafinil.
Posted by Sunbath on October 17, 2009, at 11:55:50
In reply to Re: Olmifon/Adrafinil dosing, ill effects?, posted by bleauberry on October 16, 2009, at 17:50:13
Thanks :)
> Yes and no. It is like a stimulant on demand. It doesn't feel like it is there unless you have a need for stimulation, and then the stimulation is present because the alpha-1 receptors are easily stimulated when needed, but not when not needed. Kind of like Viagra...it won't do anything without arousal. Will Viagra automatically make a man hard? Well, without stimulation, usually no. With stimulation, usually yes quite so.
>
> That's pretty much my experience with it as well as what is reported from most people who have used it for a least a couple or more months. It becomes invisible. But as you look around at yourself and compare to how you used to be months ago, it becomes obvious you have more energy and performance than you used to but you aren't aware it is drug-induced. Theory is that it is the alpha-1 receptors re-adapted to be more sensitive.That sounds GREAT!I'm very excited!
> I think most brands on the market are of good quality. Look for ones with specified amounts of the active ingredient. Look for capsules.I'll look for it now to have it handy when adrafinil arrives
>
> But again, the MAOI component makes all of this deserve respect and caution, especially in the early days/weeks. There is not enough research on the MAOIs to predict interactions or reactions with many substances, other than the obvious known ones. I personally do not see much risk here, but if it were me I would certainly approach with respect. For example the 75mg starting dose of Adrafinil.Yes, you are right I will be very cautious!
Will post about any success or failure here :)Have a nice weekend!!
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