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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on May 12, 2009, at 15:43:45
Check out this abstract that I found ...
I've been taking 200mcg of chromium
picolinate with each dose of Nardil,
and it really seems to help curb
carbohydrate cravings. There's no particular
rationale for my taking it four times per day
other than it matches when I take the
Nardil.I had a glucose tolerance test done once; the
result was, if I recall correctly, that I was
almost clinically hypoglycemic. On the other
hand, according to Wikipedia, anyway, an oral glucose
tolerance test is anything but robust. I was not
on Nardil when this test was done.Has anyone tried chromium supplementation
with Nardil?--Chairman_MAO
J Clin Psychiatry. 1997 Jun;58(6):274.
Treatment of depression in patients with diabetes mellitus.
Goodnick PJ, Henry JH, Buki VM.
Department of Psychiatry, University of Miami, FL 33136, USA.
BACKGROUND: Depression occurs frequently in patients with diabetes mellitus.
Little has been published on the epidemiology, biochemistry, and treatment of
depression in diabetic patients. METHOD: We searched MEDLINE for literature fromJanuary 1966 to July 1993 and cross-referenced the terms diabetes, glucose,
hyperglycemia, or hypoglycemia, with each of the following: antidepressants,
monoamine oxidase inhibitors, tricyclic antidepressants, fluoxetine, paroxetine,sertraline, and bupropion. The results reviewed were 20 papers on epidemiology,
15 papers on neurochemicals and glucose control, and 28 papers on antidepressants
and factors of importance to diabetics. Additional papers were selected from thereference lists of the retrieved articles. RESULTS: The prevalence of depression
in diabetics varies from 8.5% to 27.3%. Severity of depression correlates strongly with many symptoms of diabetes mellitus. The hydrazine monoamine oxidaseinhibitors (MAOIs), e.g., phenelzine, potentiate animal models of hypoglycemia
due to direct influence on gluconeogenesis secondary to the hydrazine structure,
not to MAOI considerations. Dopamine and norepinephrine influences in thesemodels appear to be hyperglycemic. Serotonergic influences, in the presence of
MAOIs, which decrease serotonin metabolism, are in contrast hypoglycemic.
Clinically, MAOI use is limited by the possible severity of the induced
hypoglycemia, induced weight gain, and required diets.
Posted by softheprairie on May 12, 2009, at 21:03:04
In reply to chromium picolinate for Nardil weight gain?, posted by Chairman_MAO on May 12, 2009, at 15:43:45
I'm sorry I can't answer your question.
I'm just glad to "see" you! I've only known of your reputation for knowledge, and a little I've seen in the archives.
Posted by Phillipa on May 13, 2009, at 12:10:20
In reply to Hello, Chairman, posted by softheprairie on May 12, 2009, at 21:03:04
Softprarie I picture this Chairman of the Board of a huge conglomerate with a cigar in his mouth. Large and friendly but boy don't mess around do your job. Chairman again glad to see you back. Isn't this a supplement you are asking about? I wonder what about metformin? Not that I know a thing. Love Phillipa
Posted by desolationrower on May 13, 2009, at 12:32:00
In reply to chromium picolinate for Nardil weight gain?, posted by Chairman_MAO on May 12, 2009, at 15:43:45
Hi. i've found some of your old posts quite helpful.
'carbohydrate craving' in undrugged and the associated poor control of glucose is often helped by carb restriction diet with higher fat intak. basically if your body can't store or mobilize glucose as needed, better to keep levels low all the time, so you get metabolic adaptation to use fat for most thigns. I think hydrazine and derivatives can interfer with both storage and mobilization. Eating low gi carbs also helps. The other thing is i wonder if reduced cortisol might be a factor. i wouldn't rely on a test done before nardil since it has lots of effects on metabolism.
-d/r
Posted by Chairman_MAO on May 13, 2009, at 19:03:37
In reply to Hello, Chairman, posted by softheprairie on May 12, 2009, at 21:03:04
Hello. I wasn't expecting to be lavished with compliments, but thanks! ;)
A family friend of mine who is a psychiatrist at Beth Israel Medical Center in New York City recommended one or more of the following:
"Weight loss approaches: small portions Mediteranean diet, regular big sweat exercise, Wellbutrin, Topamax or Zonegran to suppress appetite, eliminate simple/processed sugars from your diet and have complex carbs as your only carb source, adequate night time sleep for cortisol regulation, adrenal gland support herbal mixture, Rhodiola for adrenal support to regulate stress hormone levels, real meditation to stabilize stress hormones."
If anyone's tried any of these for phenelzine-induced weight gain, please let me know.
Posted by Questionmark on May 13, 2009, at 19:12:25
In reply to chromium picolinate for Nardil weight gain?, posted by Chairman_MAO on May 12, 2009, at 15:43:45
Chairman! It's good to see you post. I wish you always posted on here so i knew anytime i checked the site i'd be able to read new posts of yours. Your knowledge, logic, and perspective are highly valued. Anyway enough a** kissing.
I've never tried chromium with or without Nardil as i've only ever had a problem with being underweight.
Nardil at [what i call for myself] a "full" dose (45mg, or more) helped me gain a somewhat significant amount of weight. And unfortunately when i went off briefly a couple years ago and then stayed at a lower dose (about 21.5 and then 30 and now ~36mg) i first lost 10 or so lbs in one month, eventually 30 lbs altogether, and have been struggling to gain anything back ever since.
I never noticed carbohydrate craving like many Nardil users have spoken of, however (when i was on a full dose). Only my general appetite seemed increased. If anything i felt i had more of a craving for salt and maybe fat (though i already have a huge preference for those).
Ah dammit i always write so much. Hopefully some of that may have been helpful.
But keep trying the chromium and if you havent already track your weight to help determine if it is helping or not.Oh this tidbit in the abstract was very interesting bytheway and something i was not aware of:
"The hydrazine monoamine oxidase
inhibitors (MAOIs), e.g., phenelzine, potentiate animal models of hypoglycemia
due to direct influence on gluconeogenesis secondary to the hydrazine structure,
not to MAOI considerations."Makes me wonder if thats why, when i was on a "full" dose of Nardil and hadn't eaten in long enough, i would often get so hungry out of the blue with all the accompanying feelings of what i assume would be characteristics of hypoglycemia: lightheadedness, extreme irritability, inability to think clearly, and a ravishing need to eat.
> Check out this abstract that I found ...
> I've been taking 200mcg of chromium
> picolinate with each dose of Nardil,
> and it really seems to help curb
> carbohydrate cravings. There's no particular
> rationale for my taking it four times per day
> other than it matches when I take the
> Nardil.
>
> I had a glucose tolerance test done once; the
> result was, if I recall correctly, that I was
> almost clinically hypoglycemic. On the other
> hand, according to Wikipedia, anyway, an oral glucose
> tolerance test is anything but robust. I was not
> on Nardil when this test was done.
>
> Has anyone tried chromium supplementation
> with Nardil?
>
> --Chairman_MAO
>
> J Clin Psychiatry. 1997 Jun;58(6):274.
>
> Treatment of depression in patients with diabetes mellitus.
>
> Goodnick PJ, Henry JH, Buki VM.
>
> Department of Psychiatry, University of Miami, FL 33136, USA.
>
>
> BACKGROUND: Depression occurs frequently in patients with diabetes mellitus.
> Little has been published on the epidemiology, biochemistry, and treatment of
> depression in diabetic patients. METHOD: We searched MEDLINE for literature from
>
> January 1966 to July 1993 and cross-referenced the terms diabetes, glucose,
> hyperglycemia, or hypoglycemia, with each of the following: antidepressants,
> monoamine oxidase inhibitors, tricyclic antidepressants, fluoxetine, paroxetine,
>
> sertraline, and bupropion. The results reviewed were 20 papers on epidemiology,
> 15 papers on neurochemicals and glucose control, and 28 papers on antidepressants
> and factors of importance to diabetics. Additional papers were selected from the
>
> reference lists of the retrieved articles. RESULTS: The prevalence of depression
> in diabetics varies from 8.5% to 27.3%. Severity of depression correlates strongly with many symptoms of diabetes mellitus. The hydrazine monoamine oxidase
>
> inhibitors (MAOIs), e.g., phenelzine, potentiate animal models of hypoglycemia
> due to direct influence on gluconeogenesis secondary to the hydrazine structure,
> not to MAOI considerations. Dopamine and norepinephrine influences in these
>
> models appear to be hyperglycemic. Serotonergic influences, in the presence of
> MAOIs, which decrease serotonin metabolism, are in contrast hypoglycemic.
> Clinically, MAOI use is limited by the possible severity of the induced
> hypoglycemia, induced weight gain, and required diets.
This is the end of the thread.
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