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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by garnet71 on April 7, 2009, at 18:14:15
So if certain aged foods cause a strong chemical reaction in the brain while on MAOIs, what does that imply for the effect of those same foods on a person's brain who doesn't take MAOIs?
I mean, its not due to the chemicals in that little pill, right (or is it?), but rather the changes it facilitates in your brain chemistry.
So-wouldn't those same foods cause some subtle reaction to brain chemistry for those who don't take any drugs?
Posted by myco on April 7, 2009, at 20:09:48
In reply to MAOI food question, posted by garnet71 on April 7, 2009, at 18:14:15
The compound "Tyramine" is a natural compound contained in certain foods.
The compound itself, I believe, causes bp fluctuations naturally but the human body has adapted ways of dealing with it.
When ingested in a "normal" persons body it is quickly metabolized by certain Monoamine oxidases preventing any ill effect on the person.
When you take a MAOI...you are hindering or blocking the action of the monoamine oxidases that metabolize tyramine. Therefor you get a buildup of tyramine in your system which has the potential to cause ill effect.
As far as I know, tyramine itself doesnt cause much of any problems within a healthy normal person.
I know that eating foods in general will lower the bp though. Our ingestion of foods has a large impact on how our bodies react. We have adapted ways at dealing with compounds in food that are potential problems. Various enzyme systems break down, hydrolyse etc...compounds in food and rid them from the body.
A subtle reaction in brain chemistry? Well foods in general have an impact on various neuros in our brains for sure. They have an impact on many of the systems in the body but I dont believe that tyramines interactions within a healthy non-maoi user are significant in any way.
> So if certain aged foods cause a strong chemical reaction in the brain while on MAOIs, what does that imply for the effect of those same foods on a person's brain who doesn't take MAOIs?
>
> I mean, its not due to the chemicals in that little pill, right (or is it?), but rather the changes it facilitates in your brain chemistry.
>
> So-wouldn't those same foods cause some subtle reaction to brain chemistry for those who don't take any drugs?
Posted by garnet71 on April 7, 2009, at 20:46:59
In reply to Re: MAOI food question » garnet71, posted by myco on April 7, 2009, at 20:09:48
When you take a MAOI...you are hindering or blocking the action of the monoamine oxidases that metabolize tyramine. Therefor you get a buildup of tyramine in your system which has the potential to cause ill effect.
---------------------
I get it now. So I wonder if eating a lot of tyramine-rich foods can make people ill...or would your body just metabolize it more quickly?There is no particular reason why I'm asking all these questions-I don't take an MAOI..I'm just curious.
Posted by myco on April 7, 2009, at 20:55:18
In reply to Re: MAOI food question, posted by garnet71 on April 7, 2009, at 20:46:59
Most likely it would corelate response with the increase in tyramine. Ive never heard of anyone getting into health problems from eating cheeses and ages meats etc...apart from fats and contaminants.
The body is very resilient to food based compounds and toxins. We have actually adapted to rid the body of natural poisons found in some foods. There had to be a selective advantage to this at some point or perhaps our bodies just adapt to the foods we eat over time. Some foods we injest as humans will kill/harm certain animals because they dont have the proper biochemistry to deal with compounds contained in those foods. For example cats and chocolate...don't mix these two.
Speaking of chocolate *rubs chocolate sauce on your nose since you didnt like the logic* :oP
This is all education hun...thats what this site is about for many of us...share info. ask away without guilt or hesitance.
Mmmmyco
--------------> When you take a MAOI...you are hindering or blocking the action of the monoamine oxidases that metabolize tyramine. Therefor you get a buildup of tyramine in your system which has the potential to cause ill effect.
> ---------------------
> I get it now. So I wonder if eating a lot of tyramine-rich foods can make people ill...or would your body just metabolize it more quickly?
>
> There is no particular reason why I'm asking all these questions-I don't take an MAOI..I'm just curious.
Posted by shasling on April 7, 2009, at 22:55:50
In reply to MAOI food question, posted by garnet71 on April 7, 2009, at 18:14:15
Maois mainly the irreversable ones allow various chemicals,ones in foods,and just others alone to accumalte,this leaves a wide margin for things which alone would be harmless but to now be dangerous.
Some chemicals can accumalte in the brain which is why brain blood hemorage can be one fatal reaction on a maoi......as well as in the body which is why blood pressure and heart attack can be another.
Maois are what you call DIRTY drugs,meaning they are not SELECTIVE in their actions therefore unlike other drugs designed to end up at a specific point makes them a double edged sword,dangerous on wide hand,BUT SINCE they affect so many things it also gives them a much wider theprutic window for people who do not respond to most ssris.
Posted by jedi on April 9, 2009, at 2:12:32
In reply to MAOI food question, posted by garnet71 on April 7, 2009, at 18:14:15
> So if certain aged foods cause a strong chemical reaction in the brain while on MAOIs, what does that imply for the effect of those same foods on a person's brain who doesn't take MAOIs?
>
> I mean, its not due to the chemicals in that little pill, right (or is it?), but rather the changes it facilitates in your brain chemistry.
>
> So-wouldn't those same foods cause some subtle reaction to brain chemistry for those who don't take any drugs?Here is a simplified explanation on how MAO-A in the gut stops the absorbtion of tyramine. The irreversible MAOIs(Nardil, Parnate, Marplan & high dose selegilline) inhibit the MAO-A in the gut thus allowing the tyramine to be easily absorbed into the rest of the body.
Jedi
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/815695-overview
"MAOs are located in many tissues, including the gut wall. MAOIs absorbed through the gastrointestinal tract bind significantly to MAO in the gut mucosa and liver producing significant first pass effect. To be effective in the CNS, their location of clinically significant effect, they must be given in high enough concentration to reach plasma levels and thus brain levels, sufficient to produce binding centrally to MAO. MAO-A in the gut acts as a barrier to the absorption of tyramine, and thus ingestion of substances containing tyramine may produce significant toxicity."
This is the end of the thread.
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