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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on February 26, 2009, at 20:05:44
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » Netch, posted by Garnet71 on February 26, 2009, at 20:01:58
Gsrnet you can buy it in the health food store. Love Phillipa
Posted by Garnet71 on February 26, 2009, at 20:09:43
In reply to Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by Netch on February 26, 2009, at 9:30:58
Here's good aggregate info; apparently, there are 2 types of Vitamin D--D2 and D3. My endo told me its very common to have the deficiency living in the NE. It doesn't say anything about depression.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vitamin-d/NS_patient-vitamind
Posted by Garnet71 on February 26, 2009, at 20:26:36
In reply to Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by Netch on February 26, 2009, at 9:30:58
Vitamin D may affect serotonin:
"Intrigued researchers conducted more studies. The sunshine vitamin became linked to so many other conditions, recalled Boston University physician and vitamin D researcher Michael Holick, that when I first heard [the claims] I thought it was kind of crazy. How can it be doing so many things?
But Holick became convinced of vitamin D's effectiveness. Heart, colon, prostate, brain, all those cells have receptors for vitamin D. We know it stimulates serotonin production [important in depression]. It is important for muscle function. It has a major role in keeping cell growth in check; it kills cells if they turn malignant.
Phillipa, yes, I've seen vitamin D supplements at the stores. I think she's prescribing me a therapeutic dose, and I'd prefer that over trying to choose among brands, but thanks.
Posted by desolationrower on February 27, 2009, at 3:07:56
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » Netch, posted by Garnet71 on February 26, 2009, at 20:26:36
Yes, deficiency is rampant. buy d3 in softgel form the tablets don't absorb as well. 2-5k IU a day is a good start.
it also increases tyrosine hydroxalase activity. reduces inflammation.
make suyre you get vitamin k along with it. D increases calcium use, k makes sure the calcium goes where you want it (bones) and not wher eyou don't (soft tissue
'prescription' vitamin d might be the D2 form, which isn't as good.
-d/r
Posted by Netch on February 27, 2009, at 5:44:39
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by desolationrower on February 27, 2009, at 3:07:56
Vitamin D is a tricky vitamin to supplement. You don't want too much and not too little.
I take 10k IU during fall, winter and spring since I live on the 59th parallell - the sun's UV light is too weak during these months to make vitamin D3. During the summer months I only supplement those days I haven't had any bodyexposure to sunlight.This picture shows the relationship between vitamin D3 supplementation and blood 25(OH)D levels:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/69/5/842/F2Levels bellow 250 nmol/L 25(OH)D are considered safe. Basically supplementation up to 10k IU is safe.
According to Reinhold Vieth published cases of vitamin D toxicity with hypercalcemia all involve intake of more than 40k IU/d.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/69/5/842
Posted by raisinb on February 27, 2009, at 14:52:20
In reply to Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by Netch on February 26, 2009, at 9:30:58
Most multivitamins have 100% of the RDA of Vitamin D. So I wonder why the deficiency is so common? Is the RDA wrong?
Posted by Neal on February 27, 2009, at 16:33:40
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by Netch on February 27, 2009, at 5:44:39
_________________________
Netch;So do you personally notice any difference when you take/don't take Vitamin D?
_________________________
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 27, 2009, at 17:14:54
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by raisinb on February 27, 2009, at 14:52:20
Yes, the RDA is wrong. Do you want the long answer?
Lar
Posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2009, at 19:04:28
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » raisinb, posted by Larry Hoover on February 27, 2009, at 17:14:54
Lar I do as was told to take 1000IU or 2000IU by endocrinologist for my bones and level was 42 blood so said not necessary but what's this about depression unless it also affects thyroid? Phillipa
Posted by raisinb on February 27, 2009, at 19:57:15
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » raisinb, posted by Larry Hoover on February 27, 2009, at 17:14:54
Posted by garnet71 on February 27, 2009, at 22:18:47
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by desolationrower on February 27, 2009, at 3:07:56
Well you're right on, d/r--I just got the script today - it's for Ergocalciferol (Vitamin D2) (Vitamin D) 50,000 unit oral cap; weekly x 8
Qty: (8)
No refillsMy test results on the D:
Vitamin D 25-Hydroxy: 22
Vitamin D 25-OH, D3: 22
Vitamin D 25-OH, D2: <4I've never seen a script like that, so I'll probably ask the pharmacist about it.
Are you sure you're not a doctor, desolationrower? I'll take your advice about the vit. K, too, although it wasn't mentioned to me.
Thanks!!
Posted by garnet71 on February 27, 2009, at 22:23:49
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by raisinb on February 27, 2009, at 14:52:20
Aside from what Larry has to say, vitamin D was put in milk and fortified breakfast cereals, originally to prevent rickets. I rarely consume either; however, I never thought about needing it (dummy).
I don't take multivitamins because I was trying to get a regimine of seperate vitamines and supplements according to what brands I hear are the best for each. There's too much vitamin information out there and I get overwhelmeed.
My endo said the deficiency is very common in the NE of the U.S. where I live. I don't know why I never thought about it's importance before.
Posted by mav27 on February 27, 2009, at 23:45:52
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » raisinb, posted by garnet71 on February 27, 2009, at 22:23:49
There was a sort of funny thing here in Australia a year or so back, because the government and cancer groups have been giving so many warnings about sun light and making things like wearing hats outside during school compulsory and to wear sun screen ect that in the last in the last year os so the medical experts have fired back because apparetly the amount of children and even adults with vitamin D deficiency is on the rise thanks to the cancer groups scaring so many people about going out in the sun.
Posted by Garnet71 on February 27, 2009, at 23:52:59
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by desolationrower on February 27, 2009, at 3:07:56
"it also increases tyrosine hydroxalase activity..."
What is that?
"make suyre you get vitamin k along with it. D increases calcium use, k makes sure the calcium goes where you want it (bones) and not wher eyou don't (soft tissue"
Not that the brief article I posted exclusively speaks for vitamin D, but it did mention cell growth and muscle tissue may be linked with D.
Posted by Garnet71 on February 28, 2009, at 0:29:22
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by mav27 on February 27, 2009, at 23:45:52
Hey Mav,
I had read that 10 minutes of sunlight per day could be sufficient for whichever type of D is synthesized by sunlight.
I'd be scared of sunlight too if I lived in Australia. Isn't there a big hole in the ozone about it?
I use suncreen now, but did not for years (and wish I had). I don't use it all the time though; only if I know I'm going to be out over an hour or so. It feels too unnatural for me to not let my skin absorb the sun, and I love that feeling too much.
In China, many women wear some type of stockings on their legs--with shorts or skirts in the hot summer. They even wear them on their feet with sandals and jeans. I could never wear those damn things in the summer or more recently, at any time of year. But the women in China have beautiful skin!
Posted by desolationrower on February 28, 2009, at 3:33:19
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » desolationrower, posted by garnet71 on February 27, 2009, at 22:18:47
tyrosine hydroxylase is the rate limiting step to formatino of dopamine. vitd has some other effects that protect dopamine neurones.
garnet - not using sunscreen is probably why your numbers aren't as bad as usual.
-d/r
Posted by rskontos on February 28, 2009, at 17:55:22
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » mav27, posted by Garnet71 on February 28, 2009, at 0:29:22
The research I've done on Vitamin D says that sunscreen will block some of the body's ability to produce Vitamin D. And it stated you needed to be outside for 20 minutes without sunscreen to get the full effects and that is not good so you should supplement.
I take 10000 mg. a day. I did notice a difference when I let myself run out.
And there is research to show that vitamin D is linked to certain cancers. I mean the lack thereof.
rsk
Phillipa, it ok to take that much when you have thyroid issues. I have them too and it was the doc that found that i have thyroid issues who suggested I really needed vitamin D. My levels were 25 during the summer. It was in July I was tested and doc said my levels should be closer to 200.
Posted by Phillipa on February 28, 2009, at 21:32:32
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by desolationrower on February 28, 2009, at 3:33:19
d/r what did the number 42 for blood levels of D mean? As endo said below 20 now good. And that I don't need D? Thanks Phillipa
Posted by rskontos on March 1, 2009, at 15:41:39
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » desolationrower, posted by Phillipa on February 28, 2009, at 21:32:32
Phillipa,
My lab reports indicate the reference range for vitamin d is 20-100 ng/ml.
My guess is your doctor thinks 42 is fine. I don't know about below 20 is good because mine level is or was 25 (tested in July 08 and taking vitamin d since so I hope it has gone up. I do plan on re-testing soon). My d3 was 25 and my D2 was <4. Further my labs reports says that D3 levels indicate both endogenous production and supplementation sources such as diet or supplementation. Therapy is based on measurement of Total 25-OHD with levels <20 ng/ml indicative of Vitamin D deficiency while levels between 20 ng/ml and 30 ng/ml suggest insufficiency. Optimal levels are >30 ng./ml
My doctors would like me to be around 75 ng/ml that is our goal.
Does this help. I would re-ask that endo. ANd do you get copies of your lab results. You should ask if not.
rsk
Posted by rskontos on March 1, 2009, at 15:50:44
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by rskontos on March 1, 2009, at 15:41:39
Posted by Phillipa on March 1, 2009, at 21:00:47
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by rskontos on March 1, 2009, at 15:41:39
Oh really no optimal dose was ever given to me. Just told that 42 was fine. Ahhh Greg just found reference range and it's 32-l00. That's not that high. I think I should add the D back as have to stay out of sun. I'm really disgusted with the meducal care here where I live. Can you imagine the internist I see also said that hasimotos wasn't autoimmune. And they only treat symptoms. What about the bad back pain, horrible tiredness, I'm fed up. And is it helping depression do you take at night or morning? Love Phillipa
Posted by iforgotmypassword on March 2, 2009, at 1:06:56
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » rskontos, posted by Phillipa on March 1, 2009, at 21:00:47
i was tested a while back. my result was "<10", so apparently my actual level wasn't even detectable by them.
after this, i was on 5000IU for a total 20 days, missing doses several days randomly, as i often forget medication due to my overall mental sludginess, which i always hope will improve by what i'm taking. i ran out, and didn't refill. i think this was Sep.-Oct. but my memory isn't great. all i remember is that i didn't notice anything.
i've left this issue for a while, i guess it's time to get it checked again?
Posted by Netch on March 2, 2009, at 5:59:06
In reply to thanks for reminding me, posted by iforgotmypassword on March 2, 2009, at 1:06:56
Here are two good lectures on vitamin D
The Vitamin D Pandemic and its Health Consequences by Michael Holick:
http://www.uvadvantage.org/portals/0/pres/Whats a Vitamin D Deficiency? by Robert Heaney:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emjCzaHtSrg&feature=channel
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 3, 2009, at 9:43:57
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » desolationrower, posted by garnet71 on February 27, 2009, at 22:18:47
> Well you're right on, d/r--I just got the script today - it's for Ergocalciferol (Vitamin D2) (Vitamin D) 50,000 unit oral cap; weekly x 8
You may be interested in this abstract. I have no idea why the medical profession persists in using a plant-based chemical which is not bio-identical to that produced by our own bodies.
Lar
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Nov;89(11):5387-91.
Vitamin D2 is much less effective than vitamin D3 in humans.
Armas LA, Hollis BW, Heaney RP.
Creighton University, 601 North 30th Street, Suite 4841, Omaha, Nebraska 68131, USA.Vitamins D(2) and D(3) are generally considered to be equivalent in humans. Nevertheless, physicians commonly report equivocal responses to seemingly large doses of the only high-dose calciferol (vitamin D(2)) available in the U.S. market.The relative potencies of vitamins D(2) and D(3) were evaluated by administering single doses of 50,000 IU of the respective calciferols to 20 healthy male volunteers, following the time course of serum vitamin D and 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25OHD) over a period of 28 d and measuring the area under the curve of the rise in 25OHD above baseline.The two calciferols produced similar rises in serum concentration of the administered vitamin, indicating equivalent absorption. Both produced similar initial rises in serum 25OHD over the first 3 d, but 25OHD continued to rise in the D(3)-treated subjects, peaking at 14 d, whereas serum 25OHD fell rapidly in the D(2)-treated subjects and was not different from baseline at 14 d. Area under the curve (AUC) to d 28 was 60.2 ng.d/ml (150.5 nmol.d/liter) for vitamin D(2) and 204.7 (511.8) for vitamin D(3) (P < 0.002). Calculated AUC(infinity) indicated an even greater differential, with the relative potencies for D(3):D(2) being 9.5:1.Vitamin D(2) potency is less than one third that of vitamin D(3). Physicians resorting to use of vitamin D(2) should be aware of its markedly lower potency and shorter duration of action relative to vitamin D(3).
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 3, 2009, at 9:50:35
In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » Larry Hoover, posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2009, at 19:04:28
Vitamin D is more active at the pituitary than at the thyroid. It influences TSH.
Your level, 42, is only OK if you are using a standard that does not consider optimal health.
The influences on mood are probably very complex. I think that the take-home message that vitamin D deficiency is associated with depression is sufficient. You don't need to concern yourself with how it works to know that it's true.
Lar
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