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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by metamorphosis on February 20, 2009, at 10:58:07
I'm on my first day of Parnate.I have GAD,SAD,and depression and I'm trying to absorb as much information as I can concerning dietary/and medication restrictions.I have alot of questions and I appreciate all who respond.It seems like my psychiatrist is overly cautious on this.I think he goes by the old dietary restriction list.
Some specific questions I have as far as food is concerned:What cheeses are considered okay and which are not?I know aged cheeses should be avoided.I'll miss cheddar but what specific ones are okay and which are not?As far as canned soup and broth goes are those restricted?A broth I currently have has no listing of yeast extract on the ingredient list.Is that considered safe along with canned soup with no yeast?I don't know if all canned soups have yeast in them.If so then I quess no soup at restaurants.Is coffee okay as I drink 2-4 cups in the morning?
As far as medications:
my doctor said I cannot take trazadone even at low doses(25,50mg)I've read of people taking low doses with no problem.If thats the case is Diphenhydramine out of the question?What other meds can be used for sleep that won't break the budget.I have no insurance.Also is Ibuprofen okay?
What other GABAergic,DP,NE drugs are safe to use on it?I do take Klonopin but don't want to be on it for years.Are all stimulants out of the question?I've heard of Vivactil and I know there's many more out there.Which can be used?Finally Parnates general side effects:I realize that ones reactions can vary from anothers.What are some intial side effects I might experience?Is it considered a more stimulating or sedating drug?Does it cause weight gain(hope not),weight loss or is it neutural.Also is it known to cause sexual side effects(loss of libido,erection problems etc,)?Finally how long does it take to notice therapeutic effects with it?How effective did it help with GAD,SAD,and depression.I know this depends on the dose,Right now I'm on 30mg a day.
I apologize for all the guestions but this is new territory for me and I'm a bit nervous but also optimistic.I thank all those who read this and could respond to any of the hunedred questions listed above!
Posted by myco on February 20, 2009, at 12:21:18
In reply to started Parnate many questions-need some help, posted by metamorphosis on February 20, 2009, at 10:58:07
Hey,
Since I'm not a parnate user (my crutch is nardil), I will only weigh in here on OTC/cheap forms of sleeping aids.
First off maoi induced insomnia is a very tough battle to fight without help (particularly without rx help) for most people - I fought a losing battle against it for almost 11 weeks. You may have better luck although you must know parnate is the maoi that is most likely to mess up your sleep (don't get discouraged though).
I was able to use a small set of cheap OTC chemicals, herbs and supplements to get varying degrees of sleep aid (but usually only 2-4h a night):
A canadian herbal tea we have called: "AdrenaTea"
-basically contains rhodiola root, licorice root and ginseng (all natural sedatives) plus other herbs.
-downing 2 of these 20 mins before bed was great to get to sleep but wouldnt keep me there (wake after 1 or 2 h)
-there are many american alternativesMelatonic capsules:
-3mg caps - open and dumped until 1/4 full (for me) - studies show 3mg is way to much for most people and will actually impair sleep.
-this would make me sleepy but not induce sleepValerian teas and capsules:
-mixed results here - would often induce relaxation but, depending on brand, would energize aswellSublingual herbal sleep tablets:
-my fav one: product name "Insomnia"
-american company 'Hylands'
-http://www.hylands.com/products/insomnia.php
-can't rave about this one enough as a herbal "BENZO"
-feels and acts exactly like a mild benzo
-for those that cant get a benzo or hate them
-works on the same receptors but effect is much milder
-this guy I use for times of waking in the night
-3-4 under my tongue and held until dissapear
-feels exactly like a mild klonipin (to me)
-problem: doesnt always keep me asleep more than an hourniacinamide (part of what makes vitB - make sure you dont get 'niacin' - thats a diff part):
-also works on the benzo receptor
-excellent sedative/muscle relaxant at 500 - 1000mg
-enough to relax you and induce sleep
-wont keep you there long thoughmagnesium (many forms...i use citrate capsule)
-studies suggest works on benzo receptor
-feels like milder niacinamide
-good muscle relaxant and sedative
-doesnt keep me asleep thoughdoxylamine (unisom-2):
-u mentioned diphenhydramine (yep ok with maoi)
-unisom makes diphen but also doxylamine (called unisom-2)
-dox is a better sleep med than diphen from studies (ok with maoi)
-restful wake but max 4h sleep for me on a good day - usually 2
so ya...you will need more than OTC stuff for parnate most likely. I reccommend u stick with klon and augment. perhaps take klon part of the week and add something else the others to avoid addiction.my doc gave me temazepam (couple days a week) then added tryptophan (a supplement with AD effect and sedative effects at as little as 500mg) plus encouraged me to exercise and keep to my herbals/supplement regime for the days when I dont use the benzo
hang in there dude...maoi's are excellent meds when they workmyco
Posted by mav27 on February 20, 2009, at 15:08:38
In reply to Re: started Parnate many questions-need some help » metamorphosis, posted by myco on February 20, 2009, at 12:21:18
A tiny amount of Seroquel would also work for the insomnia and at low doses won't do much more than that incase u don't like anti-psychotics.
Only other thing that worked for me was a decent dose of rohypnol but the seroquel was much better.
Posted by desolationrower on February 20, 2009, at 19:17:37
In reply to started Parnate many questions-need some help, posted by metamorphosis on February 20, 2009, at 10:58:07
> Some specific questions I have as far as food is concerned:What cheeses are considered okay and which are not?I know aged cheeses should be avoided.I'll miss cheddar but what specific ones are okay and which are not?
its hard to know since different manufacturers with different bacteria can result in different levels. i don't like cheese, maybe someone has a list or something. generally i'd say if it isn't something a frenchman would laugh at, be careful.
>As far as canned soup and broth goes are those restricted?A broth I currently have has no listing of yeast extract on the ingredient list.Is that considered safe along with canned soup with no yeast?I don't know if all canned soups have yeast in them.If so then I quess no soup at restaurants.Is coffee okay as I drink 2-4 cups in the morning?
soup is ok if the ingredients are ok. i think tyramine in real broth is only happens when bacteria colonize (ie improperly stored) - its just that its very easy to get bacteria in your broth, because of how its made. coffee is ok.
>
> As far as medications:
> my doctor said I cannot take trazadone even at low doses(25,50mg)I've read of people taking low doses with no problem.If thats the case is Diphenhydramine out of the question?What other meds can be used for sleep that won't break the budget.I have no insurance.Also is Ibuprofen okay?yeah its ok, like lots of things what matters is what yoru doc believes, not what is actually true. the best antihistamine is cyproheptadine, purchasable OTC in canada and cheap. ibuprofen is fine. no sleep med is not a good idea for maois, most people need them. a long-half life antihistamine is probably just going to give you tolerance to the effect and not work. maybe your doc will give you a short halflife benzo to go with the kpins. thats cheap and no risk of interaction. reaction can vary, w/o traz i sleep pretty well on parnate, i just wake a few times a night and sometimes have bad dreams right as i'm falling asleep. but i'v hypersomnia when not taking an maoi.
> What other GABAergic,DP,NE drugs are safe to use on it?I do take Klonopin but don't want to be on it for years.Are all stimulants out of the question?I've heard of Vivactil and I know there's many more out there.Which can be used?gabaergics: all of them, that i can think of.
dp=DA? & NE = da and alpha2 agonists are ok, and other agonists and indirect agonists are ok, but they risk hypertension...need to be careful with dosages. some like pseudoephedrine i can't imagine any purpose to takeing; the more peripheral the effects, the more problematic.> Finally Parnates general side effects:I realize that ones reactions can vary from anothers.What are some intial side effects I might experience?Is it considered a more stimulating or sedating drug?Does it cause weight gain(hope not),weight loss or is it neutural.Also is it known to cause sexual side effects(loss of libido,erection problems etc,)?
generally its stimulating for a while after the dosage & insomnia, causes weight loss. frequent sexual problems at first, usually dissapate.
>Finally how long does it take to notice therapeutic effects with it?How effective did it help with GAD,SAD,and depression.I know this depends on the dose,Right now I'm on 30mg a day.
once at a good dose, a week or two, sometimes more; its known for quick response. tooke 5 days for me. personally benefits were mainly on depression (gone in a week), not much with anxiety/ADDi.
> I apologize for all the guestions but this is new territory for me and I'm a bit nervous but also optimistic.I thank all those who read this and could respond to any of the hunedred questions listed above!
-d/r
This is the end of the thread.
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