![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 13 to 37 of 44. Go back in thread:
Posted by JadeKelly on December 28, 2008, at 12:42:41
In reply to Re: Parnate - Evidence for using high dosages., posted by uncouth on December 28, 2008, at 11:36:39
> SPeaking of higher-dose TCP treatment, in the experience of those who have taken TCP at what point (dose or side effect wise) did you notice the social phobia and the stimulatory effects actually come online. Not just talking about sleep disturbance, but I'm considering going off of TCP because while it has really helped my mood, it hasn't done anything for my ADHD -- certainly not as much as even a low (10 or 15mg) dose of Focalin (which is equivalent to a daily dose of 20 - 30mg of Ritalin).
>
> And i know my pdoc won't let me take parnate with a stim.
>
> So much of my misery and depression is due to my incredible feeling of wasting time and not getting things done, so I think once that problem is solved it will be the best "natural" A/D out there for me, so I want to go back on a stim UNLESS TCP can eventually at some dose do that for me.
>
> Any help here? Highest i've been on is 80mg, and even at that dose, even with splitting it into 3 times a day dosing, I get hypertension after each dose, so im a bit scared of going higher.
>
> Thanks so much for your help.
> UncouthHi Uncouth,
That would be a shame if you had to d/c Parnate now. I was on Parnate (generic) for 10 weeks when suddenly, not over days, my social phobia was gone, my depression gone, agoraphobia gone. As for ADD or cognitive symptoms, I can only tell you that I took Ritalin for 12 years for ADD, went from 5mg 3xday, after 12 years ended at 5mg 5xday. I had no w/d but slight fatigue. Its unclear why my cognitive abilities/ADD symptoms are still present to a small degree even after remission. I will tell you that I started 5mg ritalin day before my remission, lunchtime. Felt like a weak cup of coffee. Next day, I was in full remission at lunchtime after taking 30mg Prnate + 5mg Rit. that morn. (I take 30mgP in morn/30mgP lunch/5mgR morn) I have been up and running ever since. Not mania, just normal me.
I was interested in how 5mg Rit could possibly make the difference and after some research found that the MAOI potentiates the ritalin (even that small amt apparently) not the other way around. I'm still a little slow cognitively and physically but I blame that on the months of TR/MDD, lethargy, apathy, laying in bed and so on. Naturally, it will take a little time to get back to normal. It gets a little better every day. I've had several parties, decorated the house for Christmas, had relatives for the Holidays, been to several dinner parties, have no phobia of going out all. I just can't pull up a word or name as fast as I used to, but again, its coming back. I wouldn't trade the way I feel for any ADD med and I was on one for a long time. I only need 1/5 what I was taking before. So, my advise if you want it, would be to find a way to add low dose ritalin (5mg day) and lower your Parnate to 60mg a day. You'll have to use your imagination or find a MAOI savvy Doc, I'm looking for a psychopharmacologist-sp? I read in one of Scott's documents that thats your best shot for long term treatment. Again, I hope you give this a try. I was saying I thought it was "improving my mood", thats not the response. Its sudden and its surpising, at least for me it was.
Good Luck,
~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on December 28, 2008, at 12:48:34
In reply to Re: Parnate - Evidence for using high dosages. » JadeKelly, posted by Vincent_QC on December 28, 2008, at 11:36:58
Hi again Vince!
I have some things I want to say regarding your post that I hope will help you but I'll need more time. So keep on the Parnate, go slow, stay at each new dose at least two weeks, don't go over 60mg for now. I'll post back today I hope!
~Jade
Posted by Vincent_QC on December 29, 2008, at 10:31:28
In reply to Re: Parnate - Evidence for using high dosages. » Vincent_QC, posted by JadeKelly on December 28, 2008, at 12:48:34
> Hi again Vince!
>
> I have some things I want to say regarding your post that I hope will help you but I'll need more time. So keep on the Parnate, go slow, stay at each new dose at least two weeks, don't go over 60mg for now. I'll post back today I hope!
>
> ~Jade
Hi Jade...I just post a new topic...Just go read it...you will see... I don't listen to your advise and I paid the price...It was crazy, but i'm still in life... ;-)Another time, thanks again for your help, you are really a nice person ;-) I hope everything is fine with you ;-)
Posted by JadeKelly on December 31, 2008, at 1:25:05
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry..., posted by shasling on December 28, 2008, at 1:04:15
So are you the legendary expert? I have some questions, if you are. Let me know. Thanx!
~Jade
PS-60mg parnate(30 2x day), 5mg ritalin 2xday, 1mg klon 3x day. 100% remission 10 days ago. Starting to lose it. What to add? have: Parnate, Ritalin, Lithium, Lamictal
Posted by shasling on January 3, 2009, at 0:58:32
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry... » shasling, posted by JadeKelly on December 31, 2008, at 1:25:05
I am a firm believer aganist the user of maois and amptahmines.
Now let me explain,i do believe upon a parnate staul,a small amount of one can be added to hopefully kick start parnate back into affect by supplying parnate with the chemicals it needs to work,however this should definantly be done with a docs supervision,and my own personal opinion is once any remission or non remission is felt after a short time,the amphetamine should be removed regardless.
The two meds are deadly togther.My opinion of course,id use various stimulants with a maoi but would not touch a amphatmine in combo with one with a ten foot pole,please be careful good luck.
Posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 2:25:01
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry..., posted by shasling on January 3, 2009, at 0:58:32
> I am a firm believer aganist the user of maois and amptahmines.
>
> Now let me explain,i do believe upon a parnate staul,a small amount of one can be added to hopefully kick start parnate back into affect by supplying parnate with the chemicals it needs to work,however this should definantly be done with a docs supervision,and my own personal opinion is once any remission or non remission is felt after a short time,the amphetamine should be removed regardless.
>
> The two meds are deadly togther.My opinion of course,id use various stimulants with a maoi but would not touch a amphatmine in combo with one with a ten foot pole,please be careful good luck.Hello, you are against use or user? jk
I took ritalin for 12 yrs under the impression that it WAS NOT an amphetamine, but rather a mild CNS stimulant. I had zero w/d when d/c except a little fatigue. From what I've read, even in pharmacy books, etc., is that MAOI's can be used with caution in combo with Ritalin. Amphetamines, such as Adderall, are not to be combined with MAOI within 2 weeks of each other according to same source.
~Jade
PS-thanx for concern, I'll look into that further.
Posted by SLS on January 3, 2009, at 5:35:40
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry... » shasling, posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 2:25:01
It has been demonstrated that MAOIs can be combined with TCA and psychostimulants - all at the same time! Just forage through Dr. Bob's site to find a thread of physician experiences with this combination.
I once took:
Parnate 150mg
desipramine 300mg
d-amphetamine 20mg
bromocriptine ?mg
thyroxine ?mgOf course, I can't play the guitar now.
(I never could).
- Scott
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 3, 2009, at 7:36:59
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry..., posted by SLS on January 3, 2009, at 5:35:40
> It has been demonstrated that MAOIs can be combined with TCA and psychostimulants - all at the same time! Just forage through Dr. Bob's site to find a thread of physician experiences with this combination.
>
> I once took:
>
> Parnate 150mg
> desipramine 300mg
> d-amphetamine 20mg
> bromocriptine ?mg
> thyroxine ?mg
>
> Of course, I can't play the guitar now.
>
> (I never could).
>
>
> - Scott
>
>Hi Scott!!!
You are funny ;-) I can't play guitar also...and that s**** since I i'm from a musicians family...my father and brother are very good guitarists...but with my hands shaking forget it! lol
Yeah, I also think a lot of misunderstanding surround the MAOI's world. In fact, it's probably because they are the most old AD drugs, so a lot more studies was made on them, make them less safer in the eyes of a lot of doctors or psychiatrists. I bet in 20 years, they will told the same things about the newer drugs like the SSRI's or the SRNI's...they will told people that they are dangerous, to not blend them with this and that...and things like that...
For what I experience, I don't know if I can add another drug to my MAOI, since I don't reach the good dosage of Parnate to treat my social phobia, but maybe something to give more energy will help eventually.
The Parnate seem to be less stimulating than what most of the doctors think. In fact, the more I increase my dosage, the more I sleep well at night time (more than 4 hours consecutively for me is a miracle...I can return in my bed and sleep another 4 hours...so that's a second miracle...I don't sleep like this since 4 years I think).
It's seem to be more stimulating at low dose. Now I can take my 20mg in the morning, drink 2 coffees and return in my bed without any problem...
Another point, it's seem also to take in general 6-7 days for the body to adjust to the dose increasement. I feel really bad for 5 days when I up my dose to 40mg, I had a lot of orthostatic hypotension episodes, now I have it only sometimes at night, if I sit a long time at the same place. My hypertension problem is a little bit less important. Sometimes I reach 160/80...but that's not scary me anymore. Normally I do around 110-120/60-70, not i'm always around 130/70...but like I write 10 times before (I tend to repeat myself a lot!!! lol), I will fix this issue with my family doctor next week.
Well, another time, thanks for all the good informations you post here!!! You're very nice! Have a good saturday !!! Take care ok ! :-)
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 3, 2009, at 7:56:10
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry... » shasling, posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 2:25:01
> Hello, you are against use or user? jk
>
> I took ritalin for 12 yrs under the impression that it WAS NOT an amphetamine, but rather a mild CNS stimulant. I had zero w/d when d/c except a little fatigue. From what I've read, even in pharmacy books, etc., is that MAOI's can be used with caution in combo with Ritalin. Amphetamines, such as Adderall, are not to be combined with MAOI within 2 weeks of each other according to same source.
>
> ~Jade
> PS-thanx for concern, I'll look into that further.Strange, I took also Ritalin for a small period of time and I always find it to be a very mild stimulant drug, in fact, I always find the coffee more strong than the Ritalin...
I remember a more old drug call "Ponderal(Redux)", who was retrieve from the market in 1997, it was a pill to help loosing weight and a strong stimulant, a lot similar to Adderall I think...I take it for a long period of time and even if at the time I was already diagnosticed with social phobia and general anxiety and it never increase my problems.
I always think that some people benefit more from stimulant drugs for anxiety and social phobia than drug who will make them more tired like all the SSRI's or SRNI's...
Since Adderall-XR is not cover by insurrance where I live and it's a lot expensive, I never had the chance to try it...maybe one day it will help me to deal with my daytime energy level, since I can't avoid the afternoon need of taking a "nap"... Ok, for now I use a lot of coffee to avoid it, but coffee is coffee...mean that i'm tired to drink it. I like the taste but I dislike the effect of it in my intestine... Maybe also with time, the Parnate will help me also to recover from that daytime lack of energy. Since I don't reach my effective dosage of it and since I also just begin to sleep more well at night, maybe everything will improve with time. I don't sleep a lot of time at night for 4 years at least so maybe also it's why I feel more tired since I increase my dose of Parnate to 40mg...I sleep more at night and I wake up not feeling rested...). I'm sure everything will improve.
I think what you have to check if you take a stimulant with a MAOI's is your blood pressure. Since stimulants tends to increase the blood pressure, you just have to make it safe...go slow on the stimulant dose...and increase slowly if you need it...Since i'm not a doctor (lol), that's the only one advise I can write...
Have a good day Jade ;-)
Posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 17:51:47
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry... » JadeKelly, posted by Vincent_QC on January 3, 2009, at 7:56:10
> > Hello, you are against use or user? jk
> >
> > I took ritalin for 12 yrs under the impression that it WAS NOT an amphetamine, but rather a mild CNS stimulant. I had zero w/d when d/c except a little fatigue. From what I've read, even in pharmacy books, etc., is that MAOI's can be used with caution in combo with Ritalin. Amphetamines, such as Adderall, are not to be combined with MAOI within 2 weeks of each other according to same source.
> >
> > ~Jade
> > PS-thanx for concern, I'll look into that further.
>
> Strange, I took also Ritalin for a small period of time and I always find it to be a very mild stimulant drug, in fact, I always find the coffee more strong than the Ritalin...
Did you take it after the stronger stim you mention below? If so you'd have a tolerance.
I think dose really makes a difference, too.
>
> I remember a more old drug call "Ponderal(Redux)", who was retrieve from the market in 1997, it was a pill to help loosing weight and a strong stimulant, a lot similar to Adderall I think...I take it for a long period of time and even if at the time I was already diagnosticed with social phobia and general anxiety and it never increase my problems.
>
> I always think that some people benefit more from stimulant drugs for anxiety and social phobia than drug who will make them more tired like all the SSRI's or SRNI's...
>
> Since Adderall-XR is not cover by insurrance where I live and it's a lot expensive, I never had the chance to try it...maybe one day it will help me to deal with my daytime energy level, since I can't avoid the afternoon need of taking a "nap"... Ok, for now I use a lot of coffee to avoid it, but coffee is coffee...mean that i'm tired to drink it. I like the taste but I dislike the effect of it in my intestine... Maybe also with time, the Parnate will help me also to recover from that daytime lack of energy.
It helped me for that 10 day "remission" I had!
Since I don't reach my effective dosage of it and since I also just begin to sleep more well at night, maybe everything will improve with time. I don't sleep a lot of time at night for 4 years at least so maybe also it's why I feel more tired since I increase my dose of Parnate to 40mg...I sleep more at night and I wake up not feeling rested...). I'm sure everything will improve.Vincent, things will improve a lot after 40mg. That's nothing. I believe you'll need to go to at LEAST 60mg, where I am, and stay there a few weeks. Thats what Scott told me. Side effects got better for me the higher I went. I just don't like not knowing what may come next!
>
> I think what you have to check if you take a stimulant with a MAOI's is your blood pressure. Since stimulants tends to increase the blood pressure, you just have to make it safe...go slow on the stimulant dose...and increase slowly if you need it...Since i'm not a doctor (lol), that's the only one advise I can write...I'd take you over my PDoc any day, Vince!!!
>
> Have a good day Jade ;-)
Hey, I set up a thread near the bottom of board for Parnate users. Will You check it out? Thnks.I set a previous thread for "experts" to tell us what they know about our journey and what to expect along the way, and at the end!
Posted by Mickapoo on January 10, 2009, at 14:22:10
In reply to Re: Parnate - Evidence for using high dosages. » Vincent_QC, posted by JadeKelly on December 28, 2008, at 10:33:07
> >
> > > Haven't had a chance to read all documents, but good you found the one referring to the StarD study. I have been in 100% remission for 9 days on 60mg of Parnate. One morn I was no-one, suddenly around noon I felt like myself again. I have my life back. Crazy. I'm sure you can relate to my interest in this cause. If/when I have to increase dose, my PDoc may very well say I'm at the limit. My next step is to find a good (MAOI enlightened) Psychopharmacist as suggested in one of your documents.
> > >
How exactly do you find a Psychopharmacist? What exactly are they? I've been on Nardil prescribed by my family doctor (after some begging on my part), and it's not working so I'd like to try switching to Parnate. Seems like most pDocs or any others want to prescribe MAOI's.Thanks!
Mickapoo
Posted by JadeKelly on January 10, 2009, at 15:34:19
In reply to Re: Parnate - Psychopharmacist » JadeKelly, posted by Mickapoo on January 10, 2009, at 14:22:10
> > >
> > > > Haven't had a chance to read all documents, but good you found the one referring to the StarD study. I have been in 100% remission for 9 days on 60mg of Parnate. One morn I was no-one, suddenly around noon I felt like myself again. I have my life back. Crazy. I'm sure you can relate to my interest in this cause. If/when I have to increase dose, my PDoc may very well say I'm at the limit. My next step is to find a good (MAOI enlightened) Psychopharmacist as suggested in one of your documents.
> > > >
>
>
> How exactly do you find a Psychopharmacist? What exactly are they? I've been on Nardil prescribed by my family doctor (after some begging on my part), and it's not working so I'd like to try switching to Parnate. Seems like most pDocs or any others want to prescribe MAOI's.
>
> Thanks!
> MickapooHi!
I Hope I spelled that right. Not sure if they are called Psychopharmacist, or Psychopharmocolist, at any rate, I haven't seen one yet, but I believe they are PDocs but specialize more on the pharmacy end, meaning they know more about the actual medications themselves. I'm gonna make calls to a large hospital in my area and see if I can find one. I imagine they are not as easy to see as a regular PDoc. I wish I had more info for you than that. The benefit I'm hoping is that they will not be hesitant to prescribe things that my PDoc wont or cant because he doesn't have the knowledge and experience. Hope that helps some. If you find one let me know!
As an aside, I did have what I thought was remission but unfortunately it lasted 10 days and then was gone. So I feel like Parnate can work, I get some relief from it, but I'm gonna stick it out and augment further if I need to. Until I get the result I want.
Good Luck!
~Jade
Posted by SLS on January 10, 2009, at 16:03:01
In reply to Re: Parnate - Psychopharmacist » Mickapoo, posted by JadeKelly on January 10, 2009, at 15:34:19
> As an aside, I did have what I thought was remission but unfortunately it lasted 10 days and then was gone.
Did you ever see the movie "Awakenings"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awakenings
How about "Flowers for Algernon"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_algernon
Because of my history of 3 day "remissions", I find these works wrenching.
> So I feel like Parnate can work, I get some relief from it, but I'm gonna stick it out and augment further if I need to. Until I get the result I want.Woohoo!
Kick butt!
You will get the result you want with your positive attitude, constructive behaviors, and vigilance. I hope some of it rubs off on the rest of us. You are a great role model.
Drugs work.
- Scott
Posted by JadeKelly on January 10, 2009, at 21:49:04
In reply to Re: Parnate - Psychopharmacist » JadeKelly, posted by SLS on January 10, 2009, at 16:03:01
> > As an aside, I did have what I thought was remission but unfortunately it lasted 10 days and then was gone.
>
> Did you ever see the movie "Awakenings"?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awakenings
>
> How about "Flowers for Algernon"?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_algernon
>
> Because of my history of 3 day "remissions", I find these works wrenching.
>
>
> > So I feel like Parnate can work, I get some relief from it, but I'm gonna stick it out and augment further if I need to. Until I get the result I want.
>
> Woohoo!
>
> Kick butt!
>
> You will get the result you want with your positive attitude, constructive behaviors, and vigilance. I hope some of it rubs off on the rest of us. You are a great role model.
>
> Drugs work.
>
>
> - Scott
Haha, are you spying? Thanks for the encouragement and kind words. It means alot! Its hard to be patient. You sound in a good mood!By the way, your posts did go thru to the woman with the husband on Seroquel. I don't know about you, but my fingers hurt from all the posting the last two days. I think we've got it pretty well under control, you?
I'm hesitant to ask you a question cause I said I wouldn't, but while you're in SUCH a good mood:
If I felt like I was in withdrawal (sweats, tension, feeling like I NEED something but don't know what....that kinda stuff) but haven't changed anything, is that a sign to go up on the Parnate? I've felt this same thing when I've run out of klonopin (which I haven't lately)
If you can answer that great, if not don't worry about it. I know how to scheme too :) I wish
~Jade
>
Posted by SLS on January 11, 2009, at 7:17:28
In reply to Re: SCOTT » SLS, posted by JadeKelly on January 10, 2009, at 21:49:04
> If I felt like I was in withdrawal (sweats, tension, feeling like I NEED something but don't know what....that kinda stuff) but haven't changed anything, is that a sign to go up on the Parnate?
Remember, I asked you if you experienced heart palpitations? It is a personal theory of mind that the "fight or flight" things that you are currently experiencing *could* be signs of an imminent therapeutic response to treatment. It might be a good sign. The question becomes: Is it a matter of time or a matter of dosage? Maybe you will respond very soon to your current dosage of Parnate. However, you might need to increase the dosage to pass through this period of what I call an exaggerated dysautonomia.
How long have you been at 60mg of Parnate?
When did you last increase your dosage of methylphenidate?
When did this stuff start?
Are you dreaming at night?
- Scott
Posted by JadeKelly on January 11, 2009, at 9:31:16
In reply to Re: SCOTT » JadeKelly, posted by SLS on January 11, 2009, at 7:17:28
> > If I felt like I was in withdrawal (sweats, tension, feeling like I NEED something but don't know what....that kinda stuff) but haven't changed anything, is that a sign to go up on the Parnate?
>
> Remember, I asked you if you experienced heart palpitations?Yep! I remember.
It is a personal theory of mind that the "fight or flight" things that you are currently experiencing *could* be signs of an imminent therapeutic response to treatment. It might be a good sign. The question becomes: Is it a matter of time or a matter of dosage? Maybe you will respond very soon to your current dosage of Parnate. However, you might need to increase the dosage to pass through this period of what I call an exaggerated dysautonomia.
Okay
>
> How long have you been at 60mg of Parnate?Almost a month
>
> When did you last increase your dosage of methylphenidate?3 weeks
>
> When did this stuff start?Few nights ago
>
>
Are you dreaming at night?The occasional nightmare (that I can remember)
>
>~Jade-Thanks!
> - Scott
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 11, 2009, at 10:27:04
In reply to Re: SCOTT » JadeKelly, posted by SLS on January 11, 2009, at 7:17:28
> > If I felt like I was in withdrawal (sweats, tension, feeling like I NEED something but don't know what....that kinda stuff) but haven't changed anything, is that a sign to go up on the Parnate?
>
> Remember, I asked you if you experienced heart palpitations? It is a personal theory of mind that the "fight or flight" things that you are currently experiencing *could* be signs of an imminent therapeutic response to treatment. It might be a good sign. The question becomes: Is it a matter of time or a matter of dosage? Maybe you will respond very soon to your current dosage of Parnate. However, you might need to increase the dosage to pass through this period of what I call an exaggerated dysautonomia.
>
> How long have you been at 60mg of Parnate?
>
> When did you last increase your dosage of methylphenidate?
>
> When did this stuff start?
>
> Are you dreaming at night?
>
>
> - Scott
Ho, that's funny Scott, you point the "dream" factor...Since the REM sleep stage is suppose to be "deleted"...When I go back to 30mg, after 1 week at 40mg, I begin to dream again...I stop the Parnate for 3 days and I had TONS of crazy and vivid dreams from these 3 nights...more than usual...and I search on wikipedia some informations about that...and I also conclude that my dosage of Parnate was probably connected to the fact that I start to dream again...so it's probably a sign that my dosage of Parnate was too low at 30mg... I also always get some improve on a drug only when it supress the REM sleep stage... that's weird and complex at the same time...I remember that when I try drugs like Remeron or some SSRI's as well, I had a lot more vivid dreams...and also I never improve on that kind of drugs...so maybe it's related...
Very interresting...You should be a Doctor...especially in the research field !!! lol ;-)
Anyway, another good point for you here...!!!
Thanks again! ;-)
Posted by SLS on January 12, 2009, at 11:18:22
In reply to Re: SCOTT » SLS, posted by JadeKelly on January 11, 2009, at 9:31:16
Sorry to take so long to return to this thread...
Yes. Based upon your current experiences, I think you may need to increase your dosage of Parnate. Most people do not dream once they reach a therapeutic dosage. This is not by any means a hard and fast rule, though. However, taking into consideration your persistent dysautonomia and continued dreaming, I think you need to go up.
Please be aware that this is only conjecture on my part. You can take a MAO inhibition test, but I consider it to be a waste of time since you still must titrate based upon clinical observation.
- Scott
> > > If I felt like I was in withdrawal (sweats, tension, feeling like I NEED something but don't know what....that kinda stuff) but haven't changed anything, is that a sign to go up on the Parnate?
> >
> > Remember, I asked you if you experienced heart palpitations?
>
> Yep! I remember.
>
> It is a personal theory of mind that the "fight or flight" things that you are currently experiencing *could* be signs of an imminent therapeutic response to treatment. It might be a good sign. The question becomes: Is it a matter of time or a matter of dosage? Maybe you will respond very soon to your current dosage of Parnate. However, you might need to increase the dosage to pass through this period of what I call an exaggerated dysautonomia.
>
> Okay
> >
> > How long have you been at 60mg of Parnate?
>
> Almost a month
> >
> > When did you last increase your dosage of methylphenidate?
>
> 3 weeks
>
> >
> > When did this stuff start?
>
> Few nights ago
> >
> >
> Are you dreaming at night?
>
> The occasional nightmare (that I can remember)
> >
> >
>
> ~Jade-Thanks!
>
>
> > - Scott
>
>
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 12, 2009, at 11:59:31
In reply to Re: SCOTT » JadeKelly, posted by SLS on January 12, 2009, at 11:18:22
> Sorry to take so long to return to this thread...
>
> Yes. Based upon your current experiences, I think you may need to increase your dosage of Parnate. Most people do not dream once they reach a therapeutic dosage. This is not by any means a hard and fast rule, though. However, taking into consideration your persistent dysautonomia and continued dreaming, I think you need to go up.
>
> Please be aware that this is only conjecture on my part. You can take a MAO inhibition test, but I consider it to be a waste of time since you still must titrate based upon clinical observation.
>
>
> - Scott
>
Hi Scott... I wonder something...I don't understand exactly what you mean about the dream factor...Do you mean that someone who will dream don't reach the effective dosage of Parnate, or you mean that someone who will begin to dream have reach the good dosage??? I'm a little bit confuse here...I notice that I stop dreaming when I start the Parnate at a dose of 30mg...After 1 week the dream return...I also up my dosage at the same time to 40mg and the dreams stop again...now I had to return to 30mg and I dream all nights...
I stop 3 days the Parnate and just restart it yesterday at 30mg/daily. Last night, I don't dream... Since the Parnate is suppose to supress the REM sleep stage, do you think it's related to my dose? Do you think I should increase my dose if my dreams return, especially if they begin to be more and more vivid??? Do you think it can be also related to the fact that I start to take a small dose of Seroquel 25mg before the bedtime?...
Thanks to answer to all my questions !!!
Have a nice day!
Vincent ;-)
Posted by SLS on January 12, 2009, at 12:02:43
In reply to Re: SCOTT » SLS, posted by Vincent_QC on January 12, 2009, at 11:59:31
Hi.
Usually, one will stop dreaming once they approach a therapeutic dosage.
- Scott
Posted by JadeKelly on January 12, 2009, at 12:12:48
In reply to Re: SCOTT, posted by SLS on January 12, 2009, at 12:02:43
> Hi.
>
> Usually, one will stop dreaming once they approach a therapeutic dosage.
>
>
> - ScottHi.
Thanks. Had one last night actually. I'm going up to 70mg Parnate and I'll figure out the rest.
How ya doin? Hope you're feelin decent and your mood good. We're keeping up the posting and you are not needed at this time :*)
PS-I got slapped TWICE yesterday. Two different occasions. I need to keep my mouth shut, haha.
~Jade
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 13, 2009, at 6:18:42
In reply to Re: SCOTT » SLS, posted by JadeKelly on January 12, 2009, at 12:12:48
> > Hi.
> >
> > Usually, one will stop dreaming once they approach a therapeutic dosage.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Hi.
>
> Thanks. Had one last night actually. I'm going up to 70mg Parnate and I'll figure out the rest.
>
> How ya doin? Hope you're feelin decent and your mood good. We're keeping up the posting and you are not needed at this time :*)
>
> PS-I got slapped TWICE yesterday. Two different occasions. I need to keep my mouth shut, haha.
>
> ~JadeSlapped??? Why Jade? lol
Thanks Scott for the answer!!! I also think the "dream" approach apply a lot to the therapeuthic effect of the Parnate...as well to others AD's.
My dreams stop at 40mg, When I stop 3 days the Parnate, the dreams return in force...NOw that I restart the Parnate last sunday the dreams don't stop...it's maybe because i'm back to 30mg/day or a mix of the 3 days withdraw and lower dosage...but well...I don't want to up the dose for now...I deal with a return of side-effects since yesterday, probably because I stop 3 days the Parnate...I hope everything will be more well soon...
Thanks again!
Vincent ;-)
Posted by JadeKelly on January 13, 2009, at 12:42:19
In reply to Re: SCOTT » JadeKelly, posted by Vincent_QC on January 13, 2009, at 6:18:42
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > Usually, one will stop dreaming once they approach a therapeutic dosage.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > Hi.
> >
> > Thanks. Had one last night actually. I'm going up to 70mg Parnate and I'll figure out the rest.
> >
> > How ya doin? Hope you're feelin decent and your mood good. We're keeping up the posting and you are not needed at this time :*)
> >
> > PS-I got slapped TWICE yesterday. Two different occasions. I need to keep my mouth shut, haha.
> >
> > ~Jade
>
> Slapped??? Why Jade? lol
>
> Thanks Scott for the answer!!! I also think the "dream" approach apply a lot to the therapeuthic effect of the Parnate...as well to others AD's.
>
> My dreams stop at 40mg, When I stop 3 days the Parnate, the dreams return in force...NOw that I restart the Parnate last sunday the dreams don't stop...it's maybe because i'm back to 30mg/day or a mix of the 3 days withdraw and lower dosage...but well...I don't want to up the dose for now...I deal with a return of side-effects since yesterday, probably because I stop 3 days the Parnate...I hope everything will be more well soon...
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Vincent ;-)Hi Vincent,
It means I got a please be civil and a please be sensitive. They give you those when they feel or the person reports you that you have not respected them in some way. Doesn't take much so if you haven't read the civility guidelines you might want to. When I said slapped I just meant I got scolded. Like getting slapped on the back of the hand.
I'm gonna answer your other post too, I think there is one!
~Jade
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 16, 2009, at 14:06:23
In reply to Re: SCOTT » Vincent_QC, posted by JadeKelly on January 13, 2009, at 12:42:19
> Hi Vincent,
>
> It means I got a please be civil and a please be sensitive. They give you those when they feel or the person reports you that you have not respected them in some way. Doesn't take much so if you haven't read the civility guidelines you might want to. When I said slapped I just meant I got scolded. Like getting slapped on the back of the hand.
>
> I'm gonna answer your other post too, I think there is one!
>
> ~JadeHi Jade ;-)
You mean read all the FAQ...Forget this...i'm not in the mood to read a lot of text like this...the day I will be slapped I will enjoy it! hahaha Ouppss...it was a joke here... Anyway, I don't need to read the "be civil" section since i'm not here to lack respect to someone else or to argue and fight with others members...I'm just here to find some help, help the others with all my informations and my experiences in the "Drugs" treatments options and things like that...IF someone don'T like my kind of "black humour" and my sarcastic side that characterizes me, that's not my problem... ;-)Hope you are ok this week...we don't talk a lot...Did the Parnate kick again? I hope...what happen now, how do you feel?
I had my first true day of individual therapy (CBT) this morning and I was exhausted at the end. My psychologist wanted that we go to the cafeteria of the hospital, just to take some note about my level of anxiety before we go, my thoughts, my anxiety level after the exercice...things like that...
I don't like the fact that I begin this therapy and that I have to deal with the fact that my Parnate experience fail and that i'm not stable under an AD... I have some exercices to do as homework...I have to go to the shopping center each day alone, to expose myself more and more and get used of my anxiety...
I don't know if I will be able to do this...Since I stop the Parnate, I have a regain of anxiety feeling, sometimes I need to take more Valium than the 20mg I usually need, I feel weird...my motivation and concentration level is near the 0 level and my migraines restart the day after I stop the Parnate...So I feel like I lose another month of my time...That's not very easy to deal with all of this at the same time...
I try to explain this to my psychologist this morning...I'm not very happy of the situation because the Parnate had a GOOD effect on my social anxiety and my anxiety in general...but all the side effects with the Parnate was not tolerable for me. I mean, why they canno't invent a good drug with a good effect on the social phobia and anxiety like the effect of the Parnate but without the side-effects...??? It's seem that the more they launched new drugs with fewer side-effects, the less they work...
Anyway, I have so much questions to ask to my Pdoc next week, i'm afraid of his reactions about the fact that I stop the Parnate, i'm afraid about the other options he will give to me...i'm not feeling enough strong to fight and argue with him, so if he decide to put me on something I already try before, I will have no choice really...what I can do? ...since I can't choose myself a Pdoc in the Canada cause the public health system we had don't give us the choice, I can't do anything else...That's suck...
I'm wondering if I will just TRY to ask to something to give me more energy like Adderall-XR or Provigil, just to have more energy at daytime and to be able to do something of my life...regain some energy, some motivation and concentration...find a work...be someone again..."live and not just exist"...like I always say....
For now, all I do is to stay at home at daytime, lying in my bed often...trying to keep all the small amount of energy I have to be able to go out of the home in the evening for the regular coffee with my best friend or things like that...
I feel really tired to be tired...and I can't point out what is the cause of this lack of energy and all the fatigue I have. Is it caused by the "depression", by my anemia or just because i'm used to live like this since more than one year...??? Anyway...so much questions, so much thoughts, no wonder why i'm anxious like this!!! lol
Well that was my complaints for the week...We talk more later if you want ;-)
Take care of you ok !!!
Bye!
Vincent ;-)
Posted by Mickapoo on January 18, 2009, at 14:02:59
In reply to Re: Parnate... » JadeKelly, posted by Vincent_QC on January 16, 2009, at 14:06:23
Vincent,
What side effects did you experience that caused you to stop using Parnate?Mickapoo
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