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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on January 3, 2009, at 21:58:49
1) while discussing nardil with my pdoc, he said that given my tendency to worry, i might become fixated on the possibility of having a hypotensive crisis; as a result, i might end up inducing a stress a headache, which i could then mistake for a crisis. i assume that there's a qualitative difference between a stress headache and a hypotensive headache, though is that not the case during its initial onset?
2) when nardil's described as helping social anxiety, does it help stuff like rate of thought processing, conversational fluidity, emotional expressiveness etc. or is it more a feeling of induced wellbeing (the latter being of no real use to me)?
3) how does nardil affect cognition? also, is the fatigue i often see reported dose-dependent?
thanks
Posted by ParnateStarted2008 on January 3, 2009, at 23:35:51
In reply to a couple of Nardil questions, posted by g_g_g_unit on January 3, 2009, at 21:58:49
> 1) while discussing nardil with my pdoc, he said that given my tendency to worry, i might become fixated on the possibility of having a hypotensive crisis; as a result, i might end up inducing a stress a headache, which i could then mistake for a crisis. i assume that there's a qualitative difference between a stress headache and a hypotensive headache, though is that not the case during its initial onset?
First if your worried about this you should definitely buy a BP monitor so you can monitor yourself. Changes in heart rate, breathing, or headache after you' ve injested protein could be a sign of too much tyramine and a blood pressure spike. I only experienced rapid heart rate if I ate some really aged protein full of tyramine but my BP never got dangerously high. It's quite rare and almost non-existant if you follow the diet. More common is hypotension. Here are some signs that are pointed out in my Psych med book:
severe chest pain
severe headache
stiff or sore neck
enlarged pupils
fast or slow heartbeat
increased sensitivity of eyes to light
increased sweating (possibly with fever or cold, clammy skin)
nausea and vomiting
-Many times Ive had a headache and thought maybe my BP was high so I checked on my monitor but it was never related.
-Captopril, Clonidine etc are pills you can take for immediate relief of High BP. If you have a couple of these in your wallet im sure you wont worry or stress about getting a crisis.
>
> 2) when nardil's described as helping social anxiety, does it help stuff like rate of thought processing, conversational fluidity, emotional expressiveness etc. or is it more a feeling of induced wellbeing (the latter being of no real use to me)?Good question. It can be so very different for each individual. Some experience very dramatic changes being extremly positive for what you mentioned. Sometimes putting you right into a prosocial mania with the pros you mentioned. Nardil/Parnate/Marplan work 70% of the time. I experienced very rapid thought processing/multitasking/expressiveness/rapid but fluid speach on Paxil. Nardil and Parnate may work like that aswell. Ive had prosocial times with MAOI's but transient. I find them much more tolerable then ssri's,snri's etc. and are the only meds that work for me now as everything else stopped working.
>
> 3) how does nardil affect cognition? also, is the fatigue i often see reported dose-dependent?When I was on Nardil I had very good periods of cognition aswell as the opposite. It depended how structured my life was at any given point and different augmentors I tried. Dosing time and amount made a difference too. Alot of the time my eyes looked drugged and dopey, on Parnate I dont look drugged or dopey at all. I never felt a difference in my energy level or sleeping patern on Nardil but many do. The fatigue I imagine would be dose dependant but 30mgs a day for you might make you tired while it takes 90mgs a day for someone else. Most side effects like hypotension, dizzyness, heavy limbs, tiredness, jitteryness etc. dissapear over the first few weeks as your body ajusts. Remember it can be different for different people. Sometimes its the best thing in the world and sometime horrible and can't be tolerated.
Hope that helps
ParnateStarted2008
>
> thanks
Posted by g_g_g_unit on January 4, 2009, at 0:06:29
In reply to Re: a couple of Nardil questions » g_g_g_unit, posted by ParnateStarted2008 on January 3, 2009, at 23:35:51
>
> First if your worried about this you should definitely buy a BP monitor so you can monitor yourself. Changes in heart rate, breathing, or headache after you' ve injested protein could be a sign of too much tyramine and a blood pressure spike. I only experienced rapid heart rate if I ate some really aged protein full of tyramine but my BP never got dangerously high. It's quite rare and almost non-existant if you follow the diet. More common is hypotension. Here are some signs that are pointed out in my Psych med book:
> severe chest pain
> severe headache
> stiff or sore neck
> enlarged pupils
> fast or slow heartbeat
> increased sensitivity of eyes to light
> increased sweating (possibly with fever or cold, clammy skin)
> nausea and vomiting
> -Many times Ive had a headache and thought maybe my BP was high so I checked on my monitor but it was never related.
> -Captopril, Clonidine etc are pills you can take for immediate relief of High BP. If you have a couple of these in your wallet im sure you wont worry or stress about getting a crisis.ah okay, i never realized that hypotension referred to low blood pressure; i thought hypotension was what occurred when you ate one of the contradicted foods. one doctor who did some tests last month said my blood pressure was unusually low (though i've never experienced dizziness, fainting spells etc.), so i hope that doesn't rule me out
>
> >
> Good question. It can be so very different for each individual. Some experience very dramatic changes being extremly positive for what you mentioned. Sometimes putting you right into a prosocial mania with the pros you mentioned. Nardil/Parnate/Marplan work 70% of the time. I experienced very rapid thought processing/multitasking/expressiveness/rapid but fluid speach on Paxil. Nardil and Parnate may work like that aswell. Ive had prosocial times with MAOI's but transient. I find them much more tolerable then ssri's,snri's etc. and are the only meds that work for me now as everything else stopped working.that's interesting re: paxil. i always assumed all SSRI's would have a flattening, anti-social effect. when you say the pro-sociability was transient, does that mean you returned to a kind of "happy medium", or did you end up sliding into lethargy?
> >
> > 3) how does nardil affect cognition? also, is the fatigue i often see reported dose-dependent?
>
> When I was on Nardil I had very good periods of cognition aswell as the opposite. It depended how structured my life was at any given point and different augmentors I tried.do you mind telling me which augmentors you tried? or at least which was the optimum?
Dosing time and amount made a difference too. Alot of the time my eyes looked drugged and dopey, on Parnate I dont look drugged or dopey at all. I never felt a difference in my energy level or sleeping patern on Nardil but many do. The fatigue I imagine would be dose dependant but 30mgs a day for you might make you tired while it takes 90mgs a day for someone else. Most side effects like hypotension, dizzyness, heavy limbs, tiredness, jitteryness etc. dissapear over the first few weeks as your body ajusts. Remember it can be different for different people. Sometimes its the best thing in the world and sometime horrible and can't be tolerated.
> Hope that helps
> ParnateStarted2008
>
> >thanks again for taking the time to respond
Posted by SLS on January 5, 2009, at 7:54:58
In reply to a couple of Nardil questions, posted by g_g_g_unit on January 3, 2009, at 21:58:49
Why Nardil?
> 1) while discussing nardil with my pdoc, he said that given my tendency to worry, i might become fixated on the possibility of having a hypotensive crisis; as a result, i might end up inducing a stress a headache, which i could then mistake for a crisis.If you fall into this pattern of behavior, you can simply stop taking the medication. But it seems silly to me for your doctor to use a crystal ball to come to his conclusions about how you will behave. He may be right, but that is only guesswork on his part.
> i assume that there's a qualitative difference between a stress headache and a hypotensive headache, though is that not the case during its initial onset?
The headache is unmistakable. It is an intense, painful throbbing at the base of the skull and behind the neck.
> 2) when nardil's described as helping social anxiety, does it help stuff like rate of thought processing, conversational fluidity, emotional expressiveness etc. or is it more a feeling of induced wellbeing (the latter being of no real use to me)?
My crystal ball indicates that when the anxiety disappears, your cognitive resources will improve. Nardil does more than promote a sense of wellbeing for people who suffer anxiety disorders. It can abolish anxiety in certain types of anxiety disorders. GAD, SAD, social phobia, OCD. It really depends on what the source of anxiety is. You may need to investigate this psychotherapeutically.
> 3) how does nardil affect cognition? also,
It clears my thinking and inceases my rate of speech.
> is the fatigue i often see reported dose-dependent?
No. If anything, it is time-dependent. Regardless of dosage, it will likely disappear.
- Scott
Posted by g_g_g_unit on January 5, 2009, at 16:50:09
In reply to Re: a couple of Nardil questions » g_g_g_unit, posted by SLS on January 5, 2009, at 7:54:58
> Why Nardil?
>
>
> > 1) while discussing nardil with my pdoc, he said that given my tendency to worry, i might become fixated on the possibility of having a hypotensive crisis; as a result, i might end up inducing a stress a headache, which i could then mistake for a crisis.
>
> If you fall into this pattern of behavior, you can simply stop taking the medication. But it seems silly to me for your doctor to use a crystal ball to come to his conclusions about how you will behave. He may be right, but that is only guesswork on his part.well my reasoning went that if the medication works then i'll be less likely to fixate on a hypotensive crisis anyway
>
> > i assume that there's a qualitative difference between a stress headache and a hypotensive headache, though is that not the case during its initial onset?
>
> The headache is unmistakable. It is an intense, painful throbbing at the base of the skull and behind the neck.i do tend to suffer from postural tension in general due to computer use, but that's something i've partly resolved through swimming, and will further resolve through yoga, which i'm beginning this year. so i'm not too worried about failing to identify a hypotensive crisis
>
> > 2) when nardil's described as helping social anxiety, does it help stuff like rate of thought processing, conversational fluidity, emotional expressiveness etc. or is it more a feeling of induced wellbeing (the latter being of no real use to me)?
>
> My crystal ball indicates that when the anxiety disappears, your cognitive resources will improve. Nardil does more than promote a sense of wellbeing for people who suffer anxiety disorders. It can abolish anxiety in certain types of anxiety disorders. GAD, SAD, social phobia, OCD. It really depends on what the source of anxiety is. You may need to investigate this psychotherapeutically.the source of my anxiety is a global lack of self-confidence apparently, which has resolved into OCD-like symptoms as a way of coping with (or 'accounting for') my perceived inadequacies. if i can abolish the OCD stuff, which is really just a smokescreen, it would be a lot easier to deal with the core confidence issues.
>
> > 3) how does nardil affect cognition? also,
>
> It clears my thinking and inceases my rate of speech.
>
> > is the fatigue i often see reported dose-dependent?
>
> No. If anything, it is time-dependent. Regardless of dosage, it will likely disappear.
>
>
>
> - Scottthanks a lot for your reassuring post. fingers crossed this is the one.
Posted by Sissy35 on January 8, 2009, at 13:27:17
In reply to a couple of Nardil questions, posted by g_g_g_unit on January 3, 2009, at 21:58:49
I took nardil for 20yrs and found no difference in cognitive thinking. In fact I went back to college at that time and graduated with high honors.
As far as fear of hypotensive crisis I did go through that. I think thats pretty normal. I am going through it again after starting parnate. It goes away and you forget about it.
This is the end of the thread.
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