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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by curtaincall on October 7, 2008, at 20:24:18
I am 40 years old. Age 20, had been taking Prozac for a year. Started feeling like I was having mood swings & was in with a new therapist who knew about bipolar, so I asked to be checked for it.
At the local free clinic, two psychiatrists examined me and asked questions for an hour. Seemed doubtful I had bipolar; in the end they called it cyclothemia and gave me a small amount of Lithium.
Time went on and the Prozac was increased. As the dose increased, so did the bipolar symptoms, but no one (not even me) put this together. I was "upgraded" to a bipolar diagnosis after a few years of the mood swings getting progressively worse.
Spent over 15 years chasing my tail with meds and mood swings. The depression would get worse, the AD would be increased, the bipolar symptoms would get worse, the mood stabilizer increased, and so on.
Anyway, a few years ago I encountered a new prescriber who said she thought I'd been misdiagnosed and instead called my problem ADHD. Indeed, the ADHD meds seem to help the "bipolar" (mostly agitation and impatience).
I have now been off of ADs for about three years, and have also not had any bipolar symptoms for three years. The ADHD is not being treated successfully because I am med-sensitive and we just haven't found the right one yet.
There is my life story. My question is this: if bipolar symptoms only occur during use of an antidepressant, is it still bipolar? Or something else?
I haven't discussed this with my current prescriber yet; I have sensed she may be thinking along these lines though. Sadly, after 20 years of being treated like a full-blown bipolar, I find that the label does not seem to come off easily, and instead more resembles a tattoo.
Thank you.
Posted by azalea on October 7, 2008, at 20:38:55
In reply to Is it bipolar or not? Only ADs cause symptoms., posted by curtaincall on October 7, 2008, at 20:24:18
Bipolar III is an unofficial term used by mood experts to refer to hypomania that emerges only when a patient is given an antidepressant. For more information about the bipolar spectrum, I'd suggest this website:
http://www.psycheducation.org/
Have you been on a mood stabilizer alone?
> I am 40 years old. Age 20, had been taking Prozac for a year. Started feeling like I was having mood swings & was in with a new therapist who knew about bipolar, so I asked to be checked for it.
>
> At the local free clinic, two psychiatrists examined me and asked questions for an hour. Seemed doubtful I had bipolar; in the end they called it cyclothemia and gave me a small amount of Lithium.
>
> Time went on and the Prozac was increased. As the dose increased, so did the bipolar symptoms, but no one (not even me) put this together. I was "upgraded" to a bipolar diagnosis after a few years of the mood swings getting progressively worse.
>
> Spent over 15 years chasing my tail with meds and mood swings. The depression would get worse, the AD would be increased, the bipolar symptoms would get worse, the mood stabilizer increased, and so on.
>
> Anyway, a few years ago I encountered a new prescriber who said she thought I'd been misdiagnosed and instead called my problem ADHD. Indeed, the ADHD meds seem to help the "bipolar" (mostly agitation and impatience).
>
> I have now been off of ADs for about three years, and have also not had any bipolar symptoms for three years. The ADHD is not being treated successfully because I am med-sensitive and we just haven't found the right one yet.
>
> There is my life story. My question is this: if bipolar symptoms only occur during use of an antidepressant, is it still bipolar? Or something else?
>
> I haven't discussed this with my current prescriber yet; I have sensed she may be thinking along these lines though. Sadly, after 20 years of being treated like a full-blown bipolar, I find that the label does not seem to come off easily, and instead more resembles a tattoo.
>
> Thank you.
Posted by Phillipa on October 7, 2008, at 23:39:25
In reply to Bipolar III » curtaincall, posted by azalea on October 7, 2008, at 20:38:55
That's very sad. I'm sorry. So you're med free now? Have you tried vyanase for ADHD? Heard it was good. Some can take very low doses. If new to babble also welcome and so glad you're here. If not a big hello anyway. Phillipa
Posted by desolationrower on October 8, 2008, at 0:14:11
In reply to Re: Bipolar III, posted by Phillipa on October 7, 2008, at 23:39:25
Yes that is generally considered a form of bipolar. However, that doesn't mean it is really just a subtype; different forms of bipolar are very different beasts, just like different anxiety disorders are very different. Honestly i'm not sure the label 'bipolar' is really helpful for understanding what is going on. Unfortunately there has not been very much research on the 'newer' bipolar types, compared to traditional Bipolar, so how it affects treatment options is mostly based on clinical experience and lore. What mood stabilizers and adhd meds have you tried?
-d/r
Posted by bleauberry on October 8, 2008, at 5:42:27
In reply to Is it bipolar or not? Only ADs cause symptoms., posted by curtaincall on October 7, 2008, at 20:24:18
Keep in mind that even perfectly normal people can display all kinds of new bizarre behaviors if given psychoactive medications, including behaviors that look like bipolar. Also keep in mind bipolar is a very broad term than can fit the description of other things, and there is a great deal of overlap between one mental condition and another. The terms used to describe psychiatric illnesses do not have the clearcut black-and-white boundaries we tend to pretend they do.
For example, someone with clearcut apparently unipolar depression could possibly do worse on antidepressants but do great on, for example, lithium, or zyprexa, or xanax, or ritalin, or etc. Would that mean they were actually bipolar instead of unipolar? To many, yes, to me, no. What does it mean? As far as I am concerned, who cares. Doesn't matter. All too often drugs intended for a particular subjective diagnosis turn out to be harmful or unhelpful to a particular person.
And of course any diagnosis is "subjective". That is, it is an opinion with no lab test or blood work to support it. Get interviewed by 10 different psychiatrists and find 5 of them diagnose you with something different than the others. It is an educated guessing game, but still a guessing game.
Someone with apparent schizophrenia might do poorly with antipsychotics but do fine with an antidepressant and benzodiazepine.
In my opinion, the majority of psychiatric symptoms are caused by something else in the body that has gone wrong. The body impacts the brain directly. The causes are endless...heavy metals, parasites, hidden allergies/intolerances, un-optimal thyroid, adrenal fatigue, genetic flaw in converting trytophan to serotonin, genetic flaw in converting tyrosine or DLPA, improper balance of essential oils, improper nutrition due to a gene malfunction in the use of particular vitamins, etc. Drugs can help with the symptoms. But if symptoms get worse, or if new symptoms appear, well, it is the wrong drug.
All that really matters is what treatment improves your life.
Posted by raisinb on October 8, 2008, at 9:07:39
In reply to Re: Is it bipolar or not? Only ADs cause symptoms., posted by bleauberry on October 8, 2008, at 5:42:27
Posted by Bob on October 8, 2008, at 23:48:30
In reply to Re: Is it bipolar or not? Only ADs cause symptoms., posted by bleauberry on October 8, 2008, at 5:42:27
> Keep in mind that even perfectly normal people can display all kinds of new bizarre behaviors if given psychoactive medications, including behaviors that look like bipolar. Also keep in mind bipolar is a very broad term than can fit the description of other things, and there is a great deal of overlap between one mental condition and another. The terms used to describe psychiatric illnesses do not have the clearcut black-and-white boundaries we tend to pretend they do.
>
> For example, someone with clearcut apparently unipolar depression could possibly do worse on antidepressants but do great on, for example, lithium, or zyprexa, or xanax, or ritalin, or etc. Would that mean they were actually bipolar instead of unipolar? To many, yes, to me, no. What does it mean? As far as I am concerned, who cares. Doesn't matter. All too often drugs intended for a particular subjective diagnosis turn out to be harmful or unhelpful to a particular person.
>
> And of course any diagnosis is "subjective". That is, it is an opinion with no lab test or blood work to support it. Get interviewed by 10 different psychiatrists and find 5 of them diagnose you with something different than the others. It is an educated guessing game, but still a guessing game.
>
> Someone with apparent schizophrenia might do poorly with antipsychotics but do fine with an antidepressant and benzodiazepine.
>
> In my opinion, the majority of psychiatric symptoms are caused by something else in the body that has gone wrong. The body impacts the brain directly. The causes are endless...heavy metals, parasites, hidden allergies/intolerances, un-optimal thyroid, adrenal fatigue, genetic flaw in converting trytophan to serotonin, genetic flaw in converting tyrosine or DLPA, improper balance of essential oils, improper nutrition due to a gene malfunction in the use of particular vitamins, etc. Drugs can help with the symptoms. But if symptoms get worse, or if new symptoms appear, well, it is the wrong drug.
>
> All that really matters is what treatment improves your life.What did you mean by, "improper balance of essential oils"?
Posted by bleauberry on October 9, 2008, at 15:15:55
In reply to Re: Is it bipolar or not? Only ADs cause symptoms. » bleauberry, posted by Bob on October 8, 2008, at 23:48:30
In the American diet that usually means any amount of hydrogenated oils found in most processed foods. These oils hog the space where the good oils are supposed to do their job.
Second to that, the balance between omega 3 and omega 6, or the deficiency of either/both. Oils play a large role in neuronal plasticity, the nervous system's ability to adjust and respond, and the elasticity of cells and receptors. Based on my own experiences and others here, it seems apparent they also can directly affect dopamine and/or serotonin and/or norepinephrine.
>
> What did you mean by, "improper balance of essential oils"?
>
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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