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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by antiserial on April 16, 2008, at 2:51:36
The main reason I'm not taking TCAs is the anticholinergic side effects. Is there really any cause for concern regarding dental health?
Also, are there any TCAs that don't cause weight gain?
Posted by SLS on April 16, 2008, at 4:56:49
In reply to Dental health and weight gain on TCAs?, posted by antiserial on April 16, 2008, at 2:51:36
> The main reason I'm not taking TCAs is the anticholinergic side effects. Is there really any cause for concern regarding dental health?
Any time there is a reduction in the production of saliva (xerostomia), the natural antibiotics it contains are no longer available to keep the bacteria in check. Suck on sugarless candy or gum. It will induce a greater amount of saliva secretion.
> Also, are there any TCAs that don't cause weight gain?Desipramine will be the closest to being weight-neutral.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2008, at 12:38:06
In reply to Re: Dental health and weight gain on TCAs? » antiserial, posted by SLS on April 16, 2008, at 4:56:49
Aren't a lot of the TCA's not good for heart rhythm also? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on April 16, 2008, at 13:59:24
In reply to Re: Dental health and weight gain on TCAs? » SLS, posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2008, at 12:38:06
> Aren't a lot of the TCA's not good for heart rhythm also? Phillipa
Heart block occurs mostly at dosages substantially above the maximum recommended.
What are you afraid of, Jan. Getting well?
Your fluvoxamine may not work with the Deplin.
Nardil + benzo + Deplin.
The clock is ticking...
- Scott
Posted by bulldog2 on April 16, 2008, at 14:39:45
In reply to Re: Dental health and weight gain on TCAs? » SLS, posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2008, at 12:38:06
> Aren't a lot of the TCA's not good for heart rhythm also? Phillipa
Unforunately depression is also not good for the heart or any other organ. In other words untreated depression is a very serious health hazard.
Posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2008, at 19:48:06
In reply to Re: Dental health and weight gain on TCAs? » Phillipa, posted by SLS on April 16, 2008, at 13:59:24
Sorry years ago before SSRI's existed was on three TCA's in 20's and pdocs took me off them. And no MAOI for me ever. May work for some some but not all. Phillipa ps add that to the fact that pdocs I've had laugh if you even mention them at least the ones I've seen and have that accept medicaire.At this time in the area three months is the shortest waiting period for a pdoc and there is a shortage. According to one Therapist who was born and raised here that has always been a problem. A shortage of pdocs that is.Plus they fear od's
Posted by SLS on April 16, 2008, at 20:09:32
In reply to Re: Dental health and weight gain on TCAs? » SLS, posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2008, at 19:48:06
> Sorry years ago before SSRI's existed was on three TCA's in 20's and pdocs took me off them.
Why? Did they work?
> And no MAOI for me ever.
This is very, very sad.
> May work for some some but not all.
That is a truly astute observation.
How did you come to believe that they wouldn't work for you? Just a hunch? I don't think you will get well without an MAOI; Nardil being the most effective among them. Sad.
I'm being hard on you because I like you.
Einstein said, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
It is getting harder and harder for me to listen to your story. But that's my problem.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2008, at 21:15:15
In reply to Re: Dental health and weight gain on TCAs? » Phillipa, posted by SLS on April 16, 2008, at 20:09:32
No I wasn't depressed panic attacks which they made a lot worse was walking the steets at night trying to shake the feelings as had a family to care for. Seems I've met a man age 77 who was a biochemistrist for the drug companies on my bike rides he's a walker and he worked with the developing of the ad's from back to the MAO's and his advise is to stay away from them. I plan to do a google seach also on MAOI's and see if there is a corrolation with autoimmune diseases as my family is full of them as well as myself. I feel that one of the reasons I get no side effects like others report but the opposite is because my body with the high ANA senses the drugs as foreign invaders hence where someone gets tired, nausea, and diarrhea I get none of them and never have. Only panic and severe anxiety. Never spent a day in bed as have to be doing something. So I feel my condition is anxiety garden variety. These are my thoughts. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2008, at 21:46:16
In reply to Re: Dental health and weight gain on TCAs? » SLS, posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2008, at 21:15:15
Scott I like you too. Also I don't want to. My docs all laughed. CBT and theraphy will do more than a med for me as not happy and no med can cure that. Poor choices in life. I have to live with. Phillipa no disrespect intended know you have my best interests at heart. I'm a fighter and need to keep fighting. This is a choice I've made sorry. I enjoy talking to people and am constantly amazed at the people I run into during daily life. Sharing some of what they say may not make others happy. But it's only their opinion too. Love Phillipa
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on April 16, 2008, at 22:49:24
In reply to Re: Dental health and weight gain on TCAs?, posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2008, at 21:46:16
I was on desipramine for a while. I didn't have any weight gain, but I did have awful dry mouth. I treated the dry mouth with water and sugarless gum and special toothpaste, but I still got more cavities. :( You just have to decide if your depression is bad enough that it is worth it.
Best,
EE
Posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2008, at 23:51:42
In reply to Dental health and weight gain on TCAs?, posted by antiserial on April 16, 2008, at 2:51:36
Antiserial sorry thread got hyjacked apologies for my part. Love Phillipa. Best to you.
Posted by SLS on April 17, 2008, at 4:50:16
In reply to Re: Dental health and weight gain on TCAs? » SLS, posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2008, at 21:15:15
> No I wasn't depressed panic attacks which they made a lot worse was walking the steets at night trying to shake the feelings as had a family to care for. Seems I've met a man age 77 who was a biochemistrist for the drug companies on my bike rides he's a walker and he worked with the developing of the ad's from back to the MAO's and his advise is to stay away from them. I plan to do a google seach also on MAOI's and see if there is a corrolation with autoimmune diseases as my family is full of them as well as myself. I feel that one of the reasons I get no side effects like others report but the opposite is because my body with the high ANA senses the drugs as foreign invaders hence where someone gets tired, nausea, and diarrhea I get none of them and never have. Only panic and severe anxiety. Never spent a day in bed as have to be doing something. So I feel my condition is anxiety garden variety. These are my thoughts. Love Phillipa
Nardil is great for anxiety and OCD. However you will need to discontinue Luvox for 2 weeks before starting Nardil. Nardil is not for depression only. You can keep the benzo and Deplin.Jan, I can't believe you have to research MAOIs. With the time you spend on this board, you can devote some time to investigate how many alternatives there are for your treatment. Pool your energies and motivations to get well instead of just watching others get well.
What did Effexor and Paxil do for you?
- Scott
Posted by bulldog2 on April 17, 2008, at 7:21:01
In reply to Re: Dental health and weight gain on TCAs? » SLS, posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2008, at 21:15:15
> No I wasn't depressed panic attacks which they made a lot worse was walking the steets at night trying to shake the feelings as had a family to care for. Seems I've met a man age 77 who was a biochemistrist for the drug companies on my bike rides he's a walker and he worked with the developing of the ad's from back to the MAO's and his advise is to stay away from them. I plan to do a google seach also on MAOI's and see if there is a corrolation with autoimmune diseases as my family is full of them as well as myself. I feel that one of the reasons I get no side effects like others report but the opposite is because my body with the high ANA senses the drugs as foreign invaders hence where someone gets tired, nausea, and diarrhea I get none of them and never have. Only panic and severe anxiety. Never spent a day in bed as have to be doing something. So I feel my condition is anxiety garden variety. These are my thoughts. Love Phillipa
You think you're condition is garden variety anxiety. You've talked about grief and crying in the past as that would indicate depression. I think you're in denial about depression wether it's from bad life style choices or not.If it was garden variety anxiety than benzos would handle the situation and you should be very functional.Talk therapy is great but there reaches a point where you want to be more than maintained. That is not remission or happiness.I guess I share Scott's frustration. It seems no matter what suggestions are made you have reasons you can't do them.I guess at a certain point what is there to lose by trying meds even if they have side effects? Untreated depression is very serious and poses physical health risks.As Scott said what is there to research after several years you should know about these different meds. As an ex nurse you should know about these meds.Also if you're feeling emotionally stronger because you find a good med combo your talk therapy will go better.
But in the end you need to contruct a game plan for recovery with your therapist and stay the course. Starting and stopping will keep you rooted in one place. if you can do it without meds fine. If it's holistic, meditation, relegion,swimming therapy or whatever commit to it and stay the course and see if it works. I also care but after countless emails I feel as if I am going around in a circle and saying the same things over and over...I think after all these years on this forum you should have gathered enough info to make decision as to where you are going and how you will get there.But you need a plan.
Luvox(low dose) + valium = status quo (no change)
Posted by Phillipa on April 17, 2008, at 11:51:22
In reply to Re: Dental health and weight gain on TCAs?, posted by SLS on April 17, 2008, at 4:50:16
Scott we have hyjacked this thread and that is not fair to original poster. So I don't feel it's appropriate to answer here. Thanks to EE for getting it back on the original topic. Love Phillipa
Posted by 49er on April 17, 2008, at 17:02:29
In reply to Re: Dental health and weight gain on TCAs?, posted by Emily Elizabeth on April 16, 2008, at 22:49:24
> I was on desipramine for a while. I didn't have any weight gain, but I did have awful dry mouth. I treated the dry mouth with water and sugarless gum and special toothpaste, but I still got more cavities. :( You just have to decide if your depression is bad enough that it is worth it.
>
> Best,
> EEHi,
Personally, I don't think wrecked dental health was worth it. All the thousands of dollars didn't do wonders for my depression when the meds finally pooped out.
But if the decision is made to go on a TCA, made sure you visit your dentist every 3 months. Due to having a med induced dry mouth, plack will accumulate alot more quickly. You may not need to to visit that often but definitely make sure of that.
I would also use the biotene products or a specific toothpaste formulated for dry mouth. Also, ask your dentist if a fluoride rinse is needed.
Also, if your dental hygiene habits aren't good, they need to be improved. When you're dealing with a med induced dry mouth, as SLS pointed out, the saliva is not going to do as good a job of washing away the bacteria.
Good luck with your decision.
49er
This is the end of the thread.
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