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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on January 1, 2008, at 0:17:57
http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/004647.html
I would like to see the application of this drug to other disorders like depression, anxiety or bipolar. Apparently it is some altered form of (brain penatrable) gaba.
Linkadge
Posted by Kath on January 1, 2008, at 13:40:00
In reply to New gaba drug for schizophrenia in pipeline, posted by linkadge on January 1, 2008, at 0:17:57
I looked at that link.
It looks really interesting.
My son is taking 2 antipsychotic drugs for schizophrenia (& I don't know if he even HAS it, really.......I strongly suspect that is WAS substance-induced psychosis & it freaks me that he's been on risperidone & seroquel for a year with no thought of trying to go off them. It feels pretty scarey when I read about the brain growing new receptors & people being supersensitive or something when they go off meds.
SCAREY!!!
I wonder about GABA. Maybe there's something about it for depression, etc on the Alternative Board.
Kath
Posted by linkadge on January 1, 2008, at 15:24:17
In reply to Re: New gaba drug for schizophrenia in pipeline » linkadge, posted by Kath on January 1, 2008, at 13:40:00
That is interesting about your son. If there was a direct link between the use of a certain drug and the onset of his psychosis then I would definately suspect the drugs. Esp these days, they are often laced with anything and everything.
How does he feel about the situation? Has he tried to discontinue them himself? Is he ok with the side effects?
You are right, I would think it is very important to get a second opinion or third about the need to continue AP use. There are long term consequences, and depending on his age, they may affect the way the brain develops.
The less time that he uses them, the more likely he will be able to discontinue them so long as the underlying condition has resolved.
Whatever you decide, do it slowly. I don't have schizophrenia but I have psychotic breaks if I stop AP's too quickly!
Good luck
Linkadge
Posted by Abby Cunningham on January 1, 2008, at 23:16:30
In reply to New gaba drug for schizophrenia in pipeline, posted by linkadge on January 1, 2008, at 0:17:57
I wonder if it is addictive like the benzos then?
I sure wish I had some GABA that would penetrate the BBB while reducing xanax!
Posted by linkadge on January 2, 2008, at 11:02:25
In reply to Re: New gaba drug for schizophrenia in pipeline » linkadge, posted by Abby Cunningham on January 1, 2008, at 23:16:30
It would possibly be addictive, in the sence that you may get withdrawl. However, I would like to believe that if the brain was truely deficiant in gabaergic neurotransmission, that it would be somewhat happy accomodate a supply of natural gaba, that way the brain would probably be able to release it when needed.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on January 2, 2008, at 11:32:59
In reply to Re: New gaba drug for schizophrenia in pipeline, posted by linkadge on January 2, 2008, at 11:02:25
Link that would be a dream for me and hope it is approved. One question I may be mistaken but always thought schizophrenia was a dopamine deficiency and smoking helped the schizoprenic cope with voices now this is something I heard years ago. May never have been true. Thanks for listening though. Phillipa
Posted by nellie7 on January 2, 2008, at 13:41:36
In reply to New gaba drug for schizophrenia in pipeline, posted by linkadge on January 1, 2008, at 0:17:57
Hmmm...if gaba could really help schizophrenics , wouldn't anticonvulsants be prescribed for them more often?
Posted by Phillipa on January 2, 2008, at 18:14:43
In reply to Re: New gaba drug for schizophrenia in pipeline, posted by nellie7 on January 2, 2008, at 13:41:36
Good question like klonopin or valium? Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on January 2, 2008, at 22:31:21
In reply to Re: New gaba drug for schizophrenia in pipeline, posted by nellie7 on January 2, 2008, at 13:41:36
Well schizophrenia is unlikely to be due solely to a dopamine deficiancy or excess, more a dysregulation of the system.
Gabaergic medications indirectly lower limbic dopamine neurotransmission. Anticonvulsants are often used as adjunctives to antipsychotics (although more so in Europe). Tegretol, for instance, is helpful in schizophrenia esp those with EEG abnormalities.
Research has focused on one gene GAD 67, which is involved in the synthesis of GABA from glutamate. Apparently there is a reduced acitivity of this gene in bipolar and schizophrenia resulting in decreased sythesis of GABA.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on January 2, 2008, at 22:33:51
In reply to Re: New gaba drug for schizophrenia in pipeline, posted by linkadge on January 2, 2008, at 22:31:21
Also, most non benzodiazapine anticonvulsants don't really work on gaba, they target ion chanels like calcium and sodium chanels.
Linkadge
Posted by nellie7 on January 3, 2008, at 11:01:26
In reply to Re: New gaba drug for schizophrenia in pipeline, posted by linkadge on January 2, 2008, at 22:31:21
>
> Research has focused on one gene GAD 67, which is involved in the synthesis of GABA from glutamate. Apparently there is a reduced acitivity of this gene in bipolar and schizophrenia resulting in decreased sythesis of GABA.
>
> LinkadgeInteresting- I heard that low glutaminergic activity is a causative factor in schizophrenia as well.
Nellie.
Posted by linkadge on January 3, 2008, at 11:38:39
In reply to Re: New gaba drug for schizophrenia in pipeline, posted by nellie7 on January 3, 2008, at 11:01:26
I guess it depends on the region of the brain or even the subtype of schizophrenia. (I don't understand myself) There is also a distinction between the way that NMDA modulators affect neurotransmission and how GABAergics affect it. Ie I don't know if the NMDA antagonists model of schizohprenia implicates overal low glutamate since NMDA antagonists increase glutamate release in certain brain regions, which can be blocked by gabaergic agents.
From what I read, long term use of NMDA antagonists upregulates AMPA receptors and downregulates the GAD 67 gene.
Again, I don't really uderstand myself.
Linkadge
Posted by nellie7 on January 4, 2008, at 5:49:55
In reply to Re: New gaba drug for schizophrenia in pipeline » nellie7, posted by linkadge on January 3, 2008, at 11:38:39
> I guess it depends on the region of the brain or even the subtype of schizophrenia. (I don't understand myself) There is also a distinction between the way that NMDA modulators affect neurotransmission and how GABAergics affect it. Ie I don't know if the NMDA antagonists model of schizohprenia implicates overal low glutamate since NMDA antagonists increase glutamate release in certain brain regions, which can be blocked by gabaergic agents.
It is very complicated. isn't it? :)
>
> From what I read, long term use of NMDA antagonists upregulates AMPA receptors and downregulates the GAD 67 gene.
>
> Again, I don't really uderstand myself.That's ok, I doubt that there is anyone who does :)
Best wishes,
Nellie.
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
Posted by ny2bk on January 4, 2008, at 15:11:23
In reply to Re: New gaba drug for schizophrenia in pipeline, posted by nellie7 on January 4, 2008, at 5:49:55
> > I guess it depends on the region of the brain or even the subtype of schizophrenia. (I don't understand myself) There is also a distinction between the way that NMDA modulators affect neurotransmission and how GABAergics affect it. Ie I don't know if the NMDA antagonists model of schizohprenia implicates overal low glutamate since NMDA antagonists increase glutamate release in certain brain regions, which can be blocked by gabaergic agents.
>
> It is very complicated. isn't it? :)
> >
> > From what I read, long term use of NMDA antagonists upregulates AMPA receptors and downregulates the GAD 67 gene.
> >
> > Again, I don't really uderstand myself.
>
> That's ok, I doubt that there is anyone who does :)
>
> Best wishes,
> Nellie.
> >
> > Linkadge
> >
> >
> >
>
>Without knowing specifics,since gaba is so much more than a lot of us,including myself is.Much more complex.
There are many gaba drugs,nutrients etc that get gaba across the brain or simply increase natural gaba.
L-theanine is a over the counter amino acid that raises both gaba and dopamine levels.
kava kava is said to increase gaba.
Valerian root as well.
As far as meds,Gabatril is a potent gaba inhibitor and raises gaba.
The majority of you anti convulsants work on gaba,i.e Depakote,Nuerontion,topamax,tegatrol.
GHB in the form of a script med xyrem increases it.
L taurine indirectl does as well.
Nardil,and all your benzos touch on gaba too.
So like dopamine,simply more gaba has shown not to be the answer,although personaly i believe gaba is a major player,i believe we need to pin point more precise which gaba activity is the most benificial.
Supplemental gaba,the kind u buy at the store oddly enough is overwhelming believed to not cross the brain at all,very very few believe otherwise.
Oh gaba come help!
Posted by nellie7 on January 5, 2008, at 12:32:33
In reply to Re: New gaba drug for schizophrenia in pipeline, posted by ny2bk on January 4, 2008, at 15:11:23
I have tried supplemental gaba and, contrary to what I have heard, it DOES cross the blood-brain barrier. However, it simply made me tired and numb and was not at all what I was looking for. L-glutamine was better than gaba in that sense (tried that too) , but after several hours it gave me brain zaps, hot flashes and myoclonic jerks, so I didn't take it again.
Posted by ny2bk on January 5, 2008, at 22:30:33
In reply to Re: New gaba drug for schizophrenia in pipeline » ny2bk, posted by nellie7 on January 5, 2008, at 12:32:33
>
> I have tried supplemental gaba and, contrary to what I have heard, it DOES cross the blood-brain barrier. However, it simply made me tired and numb and was not at all what I was looking for. L-glutamine was better than gaba in that sense (tried that too) , but after several hours it gave me brain zaps, hot flashes and myoclonic jerks, so I didn't take it again.
>Yeah glutamte as a supplement is tricky,unlike gaba there is little debate on whetehr it crosses into the brain,and im sure you know glutamate basicaly works as a moderator,if your low on natural gaba it converts to gaba,and if not it affects the opposite towards the nmda side.
So how to know if the glutmate is gonna take on a nice mellow effect or a agitating one is pretty much guess work which isnt fun at all.
I still have to disagree with ya on gaba though lol,in fact the creator of ghb did so in an attempt to get gaba into the brain as supplemntal gaba did not do it.He would inject supplemental gaba via spinal tap in animals to get it to the brain which created his interest that is was of value,go on from there by adding a carrier,HYDROXIDES,was how he came about ghb which is gaba attatched to a strong based hydroxide.
Look up the name Dr Henri Laborit,he is the one who came across ghb,as well as simply worked on the idea of gaba to the brain for a good part of his career,he was a nobel prize nominee.Gaba does circulate in the body however and can be known to aid sleep this way,this again is just me disagreeing who knows what really happens.
Thanks for the response.
Posted by nellie7 on January 6, 2008, at 12:41:58
In reply to Re: New gaba drug for schizophrenia in pipeline, posted by ny2bk on January 5, 2008, at 22:30:33
Hi,
Thanks for your post.
I don't have an explanation, but gaba did have an effect on me, albeit not a particularly desirable one. Perhaps it depends on a person's
individual "brain permeability" :)Nellie.
This is the end of the thread.
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