![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ace on December 23, 2007, at 9:20:16
To my friend,
Hoping you all have an awesome Christmas and peaceful and successful 2008!
As you know I have been taking Nardil quite some time now, and have been quite vocal about it (!).
Just have some thoughts....Nardil is working great but over-time I fave seen a necessity in the below to retain efficacy.....
These may be helpul I hope.1. Always take Nardil at regular times each day. As time has passed on, I have found the correlation between my good moods and this habit. At times I have been very slack- taking Nardil whenever! But i usually feel some depression creeping in when i do this.....
I really think it is best to stick to a regular schedule, and if taking 60mg or higher I think dividing doses is best.2. When Nardil kicks in, be very vigilant to SPENDING money! Nardil causes a health euphoric feeling in a lot of folk I feel, and we can just feeel so free....but be careful!
3. If Nardil is working, and working great, DON'T CHANGE DOSE or CHANGE medications. Ages ago, I was somewhat fixated on the one pill for EVERYTHING. Now- Nardil was working BRILLIANT- but I still had some OCD, and derealization syndrome. Nardil gave me a sense of confidence that was so powerful I thought I could find EVERYTHING in one pill. I stopped! Silly! then I cycled. When I went back on it, but the joy came back!
4. Patience. Nardil takes longer than any psychotropic to 'kick-in'. This is based on what I have seen again and again and again. Give it at least 9 weeks, at 90mg. 60mg often does the trick, but some people still need that extra 30mg.
5. I am quite an over-the-top person, but Nardil reall accentuated this! Sometimes I have been a little...hmmmmm... well, in one day I used to ask out like 20 gals on average! And at times use to do some things which people or myself indeed may construe as too over the top..... Certainly nothing illeagal or of that nature, but for instance at time, when feeling this 'high' I purposely did/do 'bump' into people so I can say Hello and smile at them....maybe this is OK?!?
(i mostly did this with chicks!- but not always)
dying my hair all colours, walking around with a shirt off- like I said- maybe this is cool but, dependending on your own personality. I think we are free to do what we all want as long as we are not stepping on others- or letting others step on us!6. Side-Effects- this is a big one for a lot of folk. I went through a LOT of s/effects. I still suffer GI dysfunction. It took around 4 years to recoever my ability to orgasm (this was frustrating! Especially at certain times!!!)
I suffered a plethora of initial s/effects.
However- there IS medications we can use too offset these- sometimes maybe try a few, but don't give up!
At one point I thought i had a choice- the ability to orgasm or to take Nardil. Well, I decided on Nardil! Eventually full function came back, and for those years I did use some other meds with success.
Please be patient.....
Anyhow, it's the day before Xmas here in Australia and i am up very late!! Better go!
God Bless you all! Never give in!!!!
Ace- Nardil Champion Copyright 2007Nardil 60mg
Xan-1mg
Seroquel- 25mg (moving to risperidone 1mg soon...)
Posted by Justherself54 on December 23, 2007, at 10:14:46
In reply to Merry Xmas to you all from Ace Nardil Claus!!!!!!, posted by ace on December 23, 2007, at 9:20:16
Merry Xmas to you too Ace..I agree with the freedom Nardil brings..I have to watch my spending too..I'm way better at socializing too, but not overly, however, that was never in my nature to begin with..I even went on a DATE! So my self confidence is slowly raising, my energy is boundless..so I'm going to have a merry Nardil Xmas
Posted by Phillipa on December 23, 2007, at 12:33:13
In reply to Re: Merry Xmas to you all from Ace Nardil Claus!!!, posted by Justherself54 on December 23, 2007, at 10:14:46
Merry Christmas Ace!!!!!Phillipa
Posted by tapiocamonk on December 23, 2007, at 19:24:28
In reply to Merry Xmas to you all from Ace Nardil Claus!!!!!!, posted by ace on December 23, 2007, at 9:20:16
Hey Ace,
I've just started taking Nardil and would like to get your advice as I know you're an old pro.
What would you recommend for a starting dosage schedule? Do you think that 15mg/day for two weeks, then 30mg/day for two weeks, then 45mg/day for 2-4 weeks, possibly moving up to 60mg/day after that sounds reasonable? Also, what do you think about taking the full dose in the AM vs. splitting the pills into AM and midday doses?
My pdoc has never prescribed Nardil b/f so we're flying blind here.
Thanks, Ace (and anyone else who takes the time to advise here)!!!!
Posted by ace on December 23, 2007, at 21:54:12
In reply to Re: Question for ACE, posted by tapiocamonk on December 23, 2007, at 19:24:28
> Hey Ace,
How are you!>
> I've just started taking Nardil and would like to get your advice as I know you're an old pro.
The years tick by....It's been a long time now!
> What would you recommend for a starting dosage schedule? Do you think that 15mg/day for two weeks, then 30mg/day for two weeks, then 45mg/day for 2-4 weeks, possibly moving up to 60mg/day after that sounds reasonable?Personal experience....I would reccomed 30mg for th first week
45mg for the second week
then stay on 60mg for additional 4 weeks....Then go up to 90mg
However you could do 15mg for 3 days, 30mg for 3 days etc etcJust be careful with the sudden onset off s/eefects.
At first Nardil blew me out....I was soooo sleepy, at some time my symptoms felt worse, but in the end it just kicked in...I can remeber the days it kicked in...It was probably the most brilliant memory in my life. Before it kicked in (it kciked in right at 60, then I went to 90mg and, things were unbelievable! ) I remmeber at one stage I used to feel a little annoyed at night because I couldn't wait for the next day to come!
But be gentle with yourself- and please adhere to the diet strictly at this crucial time, and be very vigilant.
I don't agree with the monograph in terms of many things- it's because they havent updated many partts for decades!
Also, what do you think about taking the full dose in the AM vs. splitting the pills into AM and midday doses?I personally feel it's best to split doses. Last dose would be no later than 6pm....Nardil has always been sedating for me but some people do get insomnia....
>
> My pdoc has never prescribed Nardil b/f so we're flying blind here.EVERY single doctor I have been too, has admitted I know more about Nardil than them! I am not kidding here! I am on the way to be a pdoc myself (I still have a few years yet but), but this is a sad state of affairs. This is not suprising....doctors are taught new=better. SSRI cash cows have shown mediocre efficacy in most cases. However they do have less s/effects usually. And doctors precribe them at way to higher doses, and they prescribe MAOI's and esp. TCA's at way too lower doses.
Doctors are only human, and are not impervious to their surrounding influences.
I'm babbling on.....!~
Sat with Nardil! You have just found the most potent psychiatric arsenal!!!Ace...
>
> Thanks, Ace (and anyone else who takes the time to advise here)!!!!
Posted by Phillipa on December 23, 2007, at 22:47:59
In reply to Re: Question for ACE » tapiocamonk, posted by ace on December 23, 2007, at 21:54:12
Ace a 77 year old guy walks near where I lived and he's a bi0-chemist and worked for the drug companies and seemed kind of scared of me when he heard I took a psych med. He kind of shied away from me never had that happen before. Think he might have worked with MAOI's? Got an opinion? Love your Queen Phillipa
Posted by ace on December 23, 2007, at 22:48:52
In reply to Re: Merry Xmas to you all from Ace Nardil Claus!!!, posted by Phillipa on December 23, 2007, at 12:33:13
> Merry Christmas Ace!!!!!Phillipa
Thanks so much! great to see you here still active!
have a brilliant Xmas and awesome 2008!
Ace:)
Posted by Phillipa on December 23, 2007, at 22:55:01
In reply to Re: Merry Xmas to you all from Ace Nardil Claus!!! » Phillipa, posted by ace on December 23, 2007, at 22:48:52
Ace thank-you sweetie same to you and waiting for you to be my pdoc. Phillipa
Posted by Bob on December 24, 2007, at 2:19:49
In reply to Merry Xmas to you all from Ace Nardil Claus!!!!!!, posted by ace on December 23, 2007, at 9:20:16
> To my friend,
>
> Hoping you all have an awesome Christmas and peaceful and successful 2008!
>
> As you know I have been taking Nardil quite some time now, and have been quite vocal about it (!).
> Just have some thoughts....Nardil is working great but over-time I fave seen a necessity in the below to retain efficacy.....
> These may be helpul I hope.
>
> 1. Always take Nardil at regular times each day. As time has passed on, I have found the correlation between my good moods and this habit. At times I have been very slack- taking Nardil whenever! But i usually feel some depression creeping in when i do this.....
> I really think it is best to stick to a regular schedule, and if taking 60mg or higher I think dividing doses is best.
>
> 2. When Nardil kicks in, be very vigilant to SPENDING money! Nardil causes a health euphoric feeling in a lot of folk I feel, and we can just feeel so free....but be careful!
>
> 3. If Nardil is working, and working great, DON'T CHANGE DOSE or CHANGE medications. Ages ago, I was somewhat fixated on the one pill for EVERYTHING. Now- Nardil was working BRILLIANT- but I still had some OCD, and derealization syndrome. Nardil gave me a sense of confidence that was so powerful I thought I could find EVERYTHING in one pill. I stopped! Silly! then I cycled. When I went back on it, but the joy came back!
>
> 4. Patience. Nardil takes longer than any psychotropic to 'kick-in'. This is based on what I have seen again and again and again. Give it at least 9 weeks, at 90mg. 60mg often does the trick, but some people still need that extra 30mg.
>
> 5. I am quite an over-the-top person, but Nardil reall accentuated this! Sometimes I have been a little...hmmmmm... well, in one day I used to ask out like 20 gals on average! And at times use to do some things which people or myself indeed may construe as too over the top..... Certainly nothing illeagal or of that nature, but for instance at time, when feeling this 'high' I purposely did/do 'bump' into people so I can say Hello and smile at them....maybe this is OK?!?
> (i mostly did this with chicks!- but not always)
> dying my hair all colours, walking around with a shirt off- like I said- maybe this is cool but, dependending on your own personality. I think we are free to do what we all want as long as we are not stepping on others- or letting others step on us!
>
> 6. Side-Effects- this is a big one for a lot of folk. I went through a LOT of s/effects. I still suffer GI dysfunction. It took around 4 years to recoever my ability to orgasm (this was frustrating! Especially at certain times!!!)
>
> I suffered a plethora of initial s/effects.
>
> However- there IS medications we can use too offset these- sometimes maybe try a few, but don't give up!
>
> At one point I thought i had a choice- the ability to orgasm or to take Nardil. Well, I decided on Nardil! Eventually full function came back, and for those years I did use some other meds with success.
>
> Please be patient.....
>
>
> Anyhow, it's the day before Xmas here in Australia and i am up very late!! Better go!
>
>
> God Bless you all! Never give in!!!!
>
>
> Ace- Nardil Champion Copyright 2007
>
> Nardil 60mg
> Xan-1mg
> Seroquel- 25mg (moving to risperidone 1mg soon...)
Couple of questions, Ace:That fact that your sexual performance came back is actually quite amazing, even if it was four years. How well did it come back, on a scale of 1 to 10?
What about weight gain? I assume you have experienced a good dollop of that, as almost everyone seems to on that med. If you had it, did the appetite ever come under control and did you ever lose any of the weight?
I noticed that you take both Xanax and Seroquel, which seems like a good dose of sedation. Why did you add these, to counter effects of the Nardil, or for other reasons?
Congratulations on your success with the med and I wish you continued happiness.
Posted by ace on December 24, 2007, at 11:37:50
In reply to Re: Merry Xmas to you all from Ace Nardil Claus!!!!!! » ace, posted by Bob on December 24, 2007, at 2:19:49
>
> Couple of questions, Ace:
>
> That fact that your sexual performance came back is actually quite amazing, even if it was four years. How well did it come back, on a scale of 1 to 10?10. it has come back 100% I feel strongly.
>
> What about weight gain? I assume you have experienced a good dollop of that, as almost everyone seems to on that med.Yes very true. I have very big cravings for chocolate- even now. The weight was put on- not a huge amount, and sort of stabilized. When I was on Zyprexa.....holly smoke! I was one fat Mumma! (no offense to overweight people- more person to love!) Then when i went to Seroquel, it went down. Finally at 25mg Seroquel, with Nardil and Xanax my weight is only very slightly above average for my age/height etc
If you had it, did the appetite ever come under control and did you ever lose any of the weight?Yep. But I still love chocoalate!
>
> I noticed that you take both Xanax and Seroquel, which seems like a good dose of sedation. Why did you add these, to counter effects of the Nardil, or for other reasons?No. Nardil already has sedative effects.
I added these for
1. Xanax- treatment of episodic derealization which, at times culminates into a 'derealization attack', with many concurrent panic d/o type symptomatology. Also for Generalized anxiety.
Xanax is brilliant.2. Seroquel- For atypical OCD with prodromal psychotic symptoms.
> Congratulations on your success with the med and I wish you continued happiness.
Thanks so much- you take good care!!!!!!!1Ace:)
Posted by tapiocamonk on December 24, 2007, at 12:09:14
In reply to Re: Question for ACE » tapiocamonk, posted by ace on December 23, 2007, at 21:54:12
Thanks, Ace!
So, it sounds like my doctor has me increasing the dose too slowly; I'm going to follow your recommendation and pick up the pace.
Posted by Bob on December 24, 2007, at 16:51:45
In reply to Re: Merry Xmas to you all from Ace Nardil Claus!!! » Bob, posted by ace on December 24, 2007, at 11:37:50
> 2. Seroquel- For atypical OCD with prodromal psychotic symptoms.
>
What is atypical OCD, and what are prodromal psychotic symptoms, specifically? I'm wondering if I might have this.
Posted by ace on December 24, 2007, at 20:17:08
In reply to Re: Merry Xmas to you all from Ace Nardil Claus!!! » ace, posted by Bob on December 24, 2007, at 16:51:45
hi Bob-
Atypical OCD is OCD which is not commom.
Typical OCD is things like handwashing, hoarding, etc I do have these typical ones too, but the one that gives me so much grieve is very hard to understand, very different.Prodromal Psychosis- This just means a psychotic d/o in it's early stages.
For, instance, before we get a full-blown cold we may suffer symptoms of a headache, sneezing, coughing....then two days later we are in bed with a full-blown cold.
It's the same with psychosis. The prodromal form is a possible, but not totally necessary, indication that one may develope a full-blown psychotic disorder, i.e. schizophrenia...
Hope this helps!
Ace
Posted by Phillipa on December 24, 2007, at 20:27:45
In reply to Re: Merry Xmas to you all from Ace Nardil Claus!!-, posted by ace on December 24, 2007, at 20:17:08
Ace what causes it any idea? How does it affect depression could MAOI's contributute to it or help it? Phillipa
Posted by ace on December 24, 2007, at 20:39:04
In reply to Re: Question for ACE, posted by tapiocamonk on December 24, 2007, at 12:09:14
> Thanks, Ace!
>
> So, it sounds like my doctor has me increasing the dose too slowly; I'm going to follow your recommendation and pick up the pace.
>Not a problem! I would think so yes- this is extremely common amongst doctors. It's just that they are not really trained at all on MAOI's! But I must say your doctor sounds good by the fact that he has prescribed it for you!
I would say definately pick up the pace- but be careful of s/effects. If they are very problematic just lower your dose by 15mg for a few days then increase. MAOI's require patience.
Keep a check of the blood pressure and adhere to the diet.
Nardil has been working great for 50+ years- you will be OK!
Peace to you!
Ace:)
Posted by Bob on December 26, 2007, at 16:35:44
In reply to Re: Merry Xmas to you all from Ace Nardil Claus!!-, posted by ace on December 24, 2007, at 20:17:08
> hi Bob-
>
> Atypical OCD is OCD which is not commom.
> Typical OCD is things like handwashing, hoarding, etc I do have these typical ones too, but the one that gives me so much grieve is very hard to understand, very different.
>
> Prodromal Psychosis- This just means a psychotic d/o in it's early stages.
>
> For, instance, before we get a full-blown cold we may suffer symptoms of a headache, sneezing, coughing....then two days later we are in bed with a full-blown cold.
>
> It's the same with psychosis. The prodromal form is a possible, but not totally necessary, indication that one may develope a full-blown psychotic disorder, i.e. schizophrenia...
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> AceAt the risk of being too nosey, can you give me an example of atypical OCD?
Posted by ace on December 29, 2007, at 22:54:10
In reply to Re: Merry Xmas to you all from Ace Nardil Claus!!- » ace, posted by Bob on December 26, 2007, at 16:35:44
> > hi Bob-
> >
> > Atypical OCD is OCD which is not commom.
> > Typical OCD is things like handwashing, hoarding, etc I do have these typical ones too, but the one that gives me so much grieve is very hard to understand, very different.
> >
> > Prodromal Psychosis- This just means a psychotic d/o in it's early stages.
> >
> > For, instance, before we get a full-blown cold we may suffer symptoms of a headache, sneezing, coughing....then two days later we are in bed with a full-blown cold.
> >
> > It's the same with psychosis. The prodromal form is a possible, but not totally necessary, indication that one may develope a full-blown psychotic disorder, i.e. schizophrenia...
> >
> > Hope this helps!
> >
> > Ace
>
> At the risk of being too nosey, can you give me an example of atypical OCD?Sure! Pure obsessional OCD is atypical OCD. An atypical OCD may involve a person having to touch a wall 7 times in order to stop a ceratin calamity which can not happen. Say for instance, if I love the sound of my car engine. I feel happiness. But then, in response to the happy feeling a thought pops up saying "Unless yoy touch/tap/do such and such a certain number of times, AND you must have positive thoughts on your mind when you do it, your happiness will dissolve"
This seeems very bizarre indeed! However, in the case of a non-psychotic patient, the person does NOT recognize this as coming from outside one self.
They do not like this- EGO-DYSTONIC
It is a psychopathology which is not within the realms of psychosis unless they start BELIEVING certain psychotic ideas- i.e. they TRULY believe if they don't do a certain ritual, the house will be on fire.
It can be strange...I really don't think about these labels too much either....noy until we have biological substantiation for their existence!
Happy New ywears mate!
Ace:)
Posted by Bob on December 30, 2007, at 0:41:09
In reply to Re: Merry Xmas to you all from Ace Nardil Claus!!- » Bob, posted by ace on December 29, 2007, at 22:54:10
> > > hi Bob-
> > >
> > > Atypical OCD is OCD which is not commom.
> > > Typical OCD is things like handwashing, hoarding, etc I do have these typical ones too, but the one that gives me so much grieve is very hard to understand, very different.
> > >
> > > Prodromal Psychosis- This just means a psychotic d/o in it's early stages.
> > >
> > > For, instance, before we get a full-blown cold we may suffer symptoms of a headache, sneezing, coughing....then two days later we are in bed with a full-blown cold.
> > >
> > > It's the same with psychosis. The prodromal form is a possible, but not totally necessary, indication that one may develope a full-blown psychotic disorder, i.e. schizophrenia...
> > >
> > > Hope this helps!
> > >
> > > Ace
> >
> > At the risk of being too nosey, can you give me an example of atypical OCD?
>
>
>
> Sure! Pure obsessional OCD is atypical OCD. An atypical OCD may involve a person having to touch a wall 7 times in order to stop a ceratin calamity which can not happen. Say for instance, if I love the sound of my car engine. I feel happiness. But then, in response to the happy feeling a thought pops up saying "Unless yoy touch/tap/do such and such a certain number of times, AND you must have positive thoughts on your mind when you do it, your happiness will dissolve"
>
> This seeems very bizarre indeed! However, in the case of a non-psychotic patient, the person does NOT recognize this as coming from outside one self.
>
> They do not like this- EGO-DYSTONIC
>
> It is a psychopathology which is not within the realms of psychosis unless they start BELIEVING certain psychotic ideas- i.e. they TRULY believe if they don't do a certain ritual, the house will be on fire.
>
> It can be strange...I really don't think about these labels too much either....noy until we have biological substantiation for their existence!
>
> Happy New ywears mate!
>
> Ace:)
>
I've often had ruminations with anxiety which I've felt could be an OCD type diagnosis, but my doctor has always disagreed. When I heard you mention atypical type OCD then I thought some of my problems might fall under that, but it seems that the OCD you describe involves more ritual linked to irrational fear. Anyway, sometimes these things are quite difficult to categorize.Happy New Year to you too.
Bob
Posted by ace on December 30, 2007, at 2:54:29
In reply to Re: Merry Xmas to you all from Ace Nardil Claus!!- » ace, posted by Bob on December 30, 2007, at 0:41:09
> > > > hi Bob-
> > > >
> > > > Atypical OCD is OCD which is not commom.
> > > > Typical OCD is things like handwashing, hoarding, etc I do have these typical ones too, but the one that gives me so much grieve is very hard to understand, very different.
> > > >
> > > > Prodromal Psychosis- This just means a psychotic d/o in it's early stages.
> > > >
> > > > For, instance, before we get a full-blown cold we may suffer symptoms of a headache, sneezing, coughing....then two days later we are in bed with a full-blown cold.
> > > >
> > > > It's the same with psychosis. The prodromal form is a possible, but not totally necessary, indication that one may develope a full-blown psychotic disorder, i.e. schizophrenia...
> > > >
> > > > Hope this helps!
> > > >
> > > > Ace
> > >
> > > At the risk of being too nosey, can you give me an example of atypical OCD?
> >
> >
> >
> > Sure! Pure obsessional OCD is atypical OCD. An atypical OCD may involve a person having to touch a wall 7 times in order to stop a ceratin calamity which can not happen. Say for instance, if I love the sound of my car engine. I feel happiness. But then, in response to the happy feeling a thought pops up saying "Unless yoy touch/tap/do such and such a certain number of times, AND you must have positive thoughts on your mind when you do it, your happiness will dissolve"
> >
> > This seeems very bizarre indeed! However, in the case of a non-psychotic patient, the person does NOT recognize this as coming from outside one self.
> >
> > They do not like this- EGO-DYSTONIC
> >
> > It is a psychopathology which is not within the realms of psychosis unless they start BELIEVING certain psychotic ideas- i.e. they TRULY believe if they don't do a certain ritual, the house will be on fire.
> >
> > It can be strange...I really don't think about these labels too much either....noy until we have biological substantiation for their existence!
> >
> > Happy New ywears mate!
> >
> > Ace:)
> >
>
>
> I've often had ruminations with anxiety which I've felt could be an OCD type diagnosis, but my doctor has always disagreed. When I heard you mention atypical type OCD then I thought some of my problems might fall under that, but it seems that the OCD you describe involves more ritual linked to irrational fear. Anyway, sometimes these things are quite difficult to categorize.
>
> Happy New Year to you too.
>
> Bob
I would not neceassarily always agree with a doctor- esp if they are psychiatrists. As it stands OCD, as a disease, does not really exist.Target symptoms, not labels!
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Script revised: February 4, 2008
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