![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by smpayne69 on July 20, 2007, at 14:27:26
Greetings all!
I had been fighting with RLS (Restless Leg Syndrome) for years, and have seen specialists from all fields, read countless books in physiology and neurobiology; Most recently "Mind Wide Open" by Stephen Johnson and "The Universe in a Single Atom" by the extremely wise Dali Lama.
Like a lot of you, I got to an expatriated point in my life. The RLS started not only bothering me at night, but began affecting me throughout the day. Thereby, really effecting my work performance. So, I decided to put a lot of study into the subject, which was in itself difficult due to my RSL issue. Upon reading texts and listening to seminars, I began to have doubts about some of the theories surrounding RLS. One of the earlier theories was, of course, a psycological illness and could be treated by meditating or preoccupation. I then learned to art of meditation. I must admit, it did help once I was able to train myself to focus on nothingness, but the RLS knew I was not meditating at work or sleep, so returned. At that point I, through meditation, proved to myself that it was not a psycological condition. I then decided to try acupuncture, which directly interacts with nerves and nerve endings. Coordinating with a specialist, I went to a late evening session. I have always been sceptical of this type of medical process, but was open minded (a very good state to be in when testing a theory). About 1 minute into the process, the RLS was completely gone! He had isolated major nerve centers....so OK, it IS physical. The nerves were still in an uproad, however, the signal of that argument was not reaching my concious mind.
Now after all my research, I found that Dopamine is a major player in regulating nerve behavior and the human 'reward or pleasure' centers. Opiates are created naturally by the brain to reward you when you have done something worth the reward...like maybe winning Manager of the Year. This reward system is boosted dramatically by artificial doses of Opiates, such as that found in Heroin, Vicotin, Codein, Lortab, etc...
I was now at a very comfortable point in understanding what may be going on. This next step, I suggest you just take my word for and do not attempt yourself.
In order to validate to myself what was actually going on in my crazed serotonin/dopamine world, I decided to fake a severe back strain to go on Lortab for 8 weeks. When I started on the Lortab, I felt my pleasure centers firing up and giving me a central whole feeling of well being. On day 2, my RLS disappeared completely! So, 7 and a half weeks of great sleep and a general feeling of well being would be about to come crashing down around me. You see, the second part of using myself as a lab rat was about to kick in...withdrawal. Now, I had never experienced withdrawal before, but understood the symptoms. About 12 hours after I seized taking the Lortab, I started to feel the symptoms. Shaking, sweating, tightness of muscles, complete lack of concentration, and you guessed, the worst RLS I have ever had in my left. I was ready to shoot myself in the head about 4 days into it. But, logic prevailed and I was happy to know that I believe I had targeting the RLS culprit...dopamine!
As most probably read, another theory is Iron deficiency. I take a regular quality multivitamin from GNC and have a healthy lifestyle. I believe if it were Iron deficiency and so much that it caused nerve chaos in my legs (whole body during withdrawal) then I would see some basic Iron deficiency symptoms as well, like sores in the mouth, thinning nails, etc... But I had absolutly no Iron deficiency and was proved by a complete blood panel.
So, what was my next step you ask. Well, to prove my own theory, I needed a type of Dopamine booster. I feel there are a lot of people out there that have this deficiency through natural genetics and/or environmental elements while growing through childhood where the chemical formations are at its purist development.
The next part, and most recent, is quite funny. First of all, one of the doctors I went to a year ago placed me on Zoloft because I was having mood swings. I have been on that for a year, and have no mood swings at all since. I do believe that my serotonin levels are lower that normal and inhibiting the uptake as helped build up a healthy supply. However, to my studies and testing, the serotonin has no relation to RLS. So, it is a year of being on the Zoloft meds and I return to the doctor and a wealth of knowledge and true life self inflicted experience. The office had me complete a series of tests which were basically focused on Mood Disorder, Attention Deficit, and Depression. It was discovered that I was very ADD! Which, solidified my theory of low dopamin levels as a whole. I indicated to the doctor that I believe I had low dopamine levels and also believe I had high Zeta levels (Brain waves that controlled concentration and attention measured on a scale of 1 to 5). I explained that my own theory is, for some reason, my nerves are attempting to do something systemically, but unable to complete the communication to the very basic animal brain functions located in our brain stems, so is manifested at the origin...which simply seems to start in the lower body area. For those with severe RLS, or withdrawing from Opiate addiction, it will start in the legs, but will spread slowly upward to arms and hands.
With a dopamine boost, or blocker per say, those levels build up in your system and ultimately feed your body properly. I have since been put on Adderall XR and the RLS symptoms have pretty much disappeared. Every now and then I feel it a tiny bit, but I believe over time that with subside as well. I sleep extremely well, I have turned my professional life completely around, and living a much more fulfilling life.
The Revered Dali Lama makes mention to the simple fact that we are all animals to an extent. I believe that, and further more, I theorize that we are animals living in an age not designed for animals. As animals we pick and eat what we want, which many plants have these boosts of dopamine as a basic ingredient. I plan on doing my own study as to the differential of RLS between vegetarians and carnivores...it would be interesting to see the results.
Please take this 'book' with a grain of salt because my medical history and yours will be different. And please, DO NOT do the opiate test...I did it for all of us and the withdrawal process was the worst experience of my life. Just take the results as informational thought and speak to your doctor before trying anything. For myself, I truly believe I had a dopamine deficiency that both hindered my focus and concentration for years, and provided me with those countless sleepless nights.
I hope my research helps at least one of you to overcome your illness and please email me if you have any questions.
Sincerely,SMPayne.
Posted by linkadge on July 21, 2007, at 19:36:48
In reply to How I beat RLS and discovered ADD., posted by smpayne69 on July 20, 2007, at 14:27:26
Unfortunately, amphetamine may cause its own withdrawl, which for can be as bad if not worse than opiates.
Sometimes, in ADHD, they can work for longer periods of time, but sometimes not.
Amphetamines, can sometimes make the user feel so good, that they're willing to believe they have any disease for which they were prescribed. I personally, did not have ADHD. I had a whole lot of boring work which I hated. I believed it though, when a bit of pep pill (ritalin) gave me a short lived burst of new enthusiasm in by boring work.
Needless to say, ritalin stopped working and I needed higher doses, and ultimately withdrawl was hell.
Somtimes stimulants can also end up more depleating dopamine in the long term.
I had a run-in with ritalin, but I'd rather not go back for the above mentioned reasons.
If opiates calm you down, and supress RLS, this does not necessarily mean you have a dopamine deficiancy. Opiates also affect GABA levels. Gabaergic meds are sometimes used for RLS (esp treatment resistant RLS). Klonazepam is somtimes used for RLS.
Linkadge
Posted by smpayne69 on July 21, 2007, at 23:12:30
In reply to Re: How I beat RLS and discovered ADD., posted by linkadge on July 21, 2007, at 19:36:48
There are obviously many different reasons for chemical embalances in the human brain, which manifest a complete spectrum and symptoms, and disorders. But, are they human disorders, or disorders created by our current society?
We see so many brutal murders in every century of known existance. Is this simply the lower brain functions of our primary animal instinct, or is it a chemical deficiency within the 'like/want/learn' zones? Or, are they both one in the same, but the deficiency is driven by society repressing the natural hunt/survive/reproduce instinct? What do you think would happen if going forward we were no longer able to engage in sexual activity? Now push that out over a couple thousand years. How do you think our minds would react? Would we have to go on a drug that decreased sexual desire? In fact, there are research centers right now designing such meds that do that very thing to control individuals with overwhelming sexual desire...most of them are found in society's prison system.
Looking at the deliberate complexity of the brain, and the very mysteriuos mind, I have had difficulty believing that our chemical brain is really in line with the 'societal mind'. So where does the decision lay regarding what chemical can and should be adjusted. We all know and agree that we are just starting to really delve into this issue, so we ourselves are ultimately responsible to explore and understand 'what' is really going on within our own brains by using our minds logically and intelligently.
So, to finally get to my point, over the past couple years of extensive research and determination, I have found out what MY issue is. My little book here online is more for inspiration for people to take the time to really use their own minds to understand their current state.
Mine was very simple, however, if I had my time back I could have saved myself a load of mysery. Logging every aspect of my life for a little over 6 months prior to my stupid Opiate test, I transfered the data to a small model I put together that simply bumped up against the basic human functions, ie desire, need, and concentration. Now, understanding that these 3 elements break down into a myrid array of sub functions. But, my goal was to go to basics.
So, using these functions, what did I know for sure about myself? Did I have Desire? Not really; and it has effected my life since grade school. I had to struggle to complete assignments, do a job that I initially had a tremendouse amount of interest in, but lost interest very fast. So I tagged that as a - standing on the desire scale. My model was set to a positive if I felt that I did not have an inherent issue with that aspect of my 'mind'. For, me being the armchair theorist that I am, I believe the mind can reflect the brain if all chemicals are in sync...which drive amazing focus, sense of well being, and a wonderful feeling of accomplishment. All, as you can see tie back to my basic model functions (Desire, Need, and Concentration).
I then addressed the second point, 'Need'. Was I easily addicted to things that gave me pleasure? Yes, for sure! I would drink quite a bit, and loved to gamble, and a little parfinalia. I put this as a (-) also. Studies have shown for some time now the addicts lack the proper management of the reward / pleasure funtion. Animals such as lions exude extreme amounts of love and affection for each other in a pact after a kill and meal. Large amounts of the brains natural Opiates are released by the proper level of dopamin receptors that manage the process. Very seldom do we see a lion's pleasure center out of wack and kill everything in site because it's addicted to that feeling. It simply gets exactly what it needs based on the Desire to get the reward from hunting and eating.
Concentration for me, or lack thereof, only occured in the past 10 years. If I really wanted to learn something new, whether the desire stuck or not, I could probably recite a complete lecture back word for word (incidentally, thats where I am back to now that God!) I would have never had the attention part of concentration to sit and write anything this long. lol! So, as stated prior, I got sick of not being 'engaged' in my life anymore, so forced the desire to learn about what the hell is going on with me. Adding another (-) to my model gave be a negative charge, or tendency in my brain forcing everything down.
I believe humanity is a balance of all sciences and Buddism, being mind and thought. So, enter the Optiat test.
I wanted to see what it felt like to artificially boost the level of Opiats in my brain. I got this idea from one of the Dali Lama books I read that a aged Buddist belief is that addiction is simply recovery out of control. With this in mind, logging new information as to how I felt against my model about a week into it. So, you guessed it. With the Opiate levels boosted, I felt great! Was engaged, had a desire to sit and learn, was much more patient with people. I really felt like I 'belonged and contributed' for lack of better terms. So, this was my mind telling me that my brain just experienced something that has not occured for some time...like a really good memory. Studies have clearly shown that under the initial influence of Opiat drugs, many contimplate doing stuff they haven't for years! That, I believe is the mind telling us that it's about damn time you woke up!
So, then came withdrawal. Of course there would be withdrawl, but not just chemically. You brain adjusts to the change in chemical balance, so we may feel mild to severe physical symptoms depending on the level of medication abuse, but your psycological side is screaming depression from many aspects, one mainly being the fact that you lost the sense of balance that you lost for so long, and most try hard to get it back. And.... re-enter the wonderful world of addiction, which can never be satisfied with a mind that is not trained to say STOP! You are already where you need to be!.
Upon getting completely off the Opiat meds, I reviewed my model to see where I stood. Keep in mind, I have only touched on the details of the model I used. I plugged in many known and suspect symptoms of neurochemical imbalance, such as RLS, ADD, ADHD, Parkensens, etc... As I stated in my last post, I learned at a basic level the art of meditation, so I studied the model in great detail and contimplated in meditation as to what were extenal effects; like, do I REALLY like my choice of profession? Did I like where I lived? Keeping in mind, that I would have to be very clear about the answers...for example, If I did not like where I lived now, would I like it anywhere else? The answer was it didn't really matter where I lived, comparitively.
With what I knew from personal exploration, research of top scientists in the field, and wisdom from the inner mind of those that spend a lifetime contimplating the mind, I found and understood what was out of wack in myself. I believe, for some reason that I really don't know...could be a question for a genesist or Freud, the natural balance of primary chemicals, namely Dopamine and Serotonin where lower than require to function happily in today's society. I may have been the happiest most successful cowboy in the wild west a couple hundred years ago, but I am out of phase right now. I believe a lot of us are. Some find balance through years of inner focus. Some find balance in the dedication and perserverience of those with chemical levels of a different mix...such as Eienstien and the most respected Chemists that have taken from the earth and created the suppliment to balance our inner beings. Which ever way, the means to do it have been given to us by everything earthly and that of which is already present within ourselves. Addiction and Greed and simply hungers for a feeling that was once and with guidance that can be controlled. However, the brain being an extremely complication and mysterious entity within ourselves, we have to tred very softly and slower with adjust those very critical chemicals. Otherwise Ernie eats all of Berts cookie, and we see massived back and forth fluctuations as seen in Scitzofrenia and similar disorders.
So, with my 100mg of Sertraline (Zoloft) and 25mg of Adderal, I am writing books and completing projects, walking the dogs, confidently speaking, and no RLS! yay! I also understand that if I drop off of ANY chemical that changes the chemical makeup of my brain, I will feel it. But using your mind and logically thinking the entire process through, we have to constantly keep our selves in check. I do not believe I will ever have to increase the dosage. I truly beleive that those who continue to increase the dosage, are those that lose site of the overall benifits, and only focus on the initial elation of first feeling the positive effects of the change. If you keep a journal, as I do, when I have a down day I flip it open. Believe me, a good feelings return very quickly. Just try to completly lose the memory of the initial positive and focuse on what you are doing today.
Certain drugs are designed to do certain things. I was very adament in seeking a medication that did not 'add' chemicals to the system. Only those meds that altered the communication between them so they were not speaking jiberish to one another and missing the beat. The addition and retraction of chemicals into the brain will cause a much more severe withdrawl and negative impact than a med that assists in communication and management.
Wake up and pay attention!!! :)
SMPayne
Posted by linkadge on July 22, 2007, at 8:32:51
In reply to Re: How I beat RLS and discovered ADD. » linkadge, posted by smpayne69 on July 21, 2007, at 23:12:30
I thought the way you did about 8 years ago. I thought we had the answers to our problems with medications. I thought we would abolish psychological suffering with medications.
I had a similar paradigm shift, where I saw everything in terms of a biochemical problem.
But after all this time, I am nowhere closer to being the person I want to be. The medications offered a brief glimpse of what the brain could be, but ultimately pooped out.
There are a lot of people here for whom antidepressants, stimulants etc, have pooped out.
I am personally not puting my hopes in medications, the brain is too strong. The more I have taken them, the more I have come to believe that the brain will eventually adapt to the pharachological effect of almost all meds.
Only time will tell if medications will continue to be, for you, all that you want.
Linkadge
Posted by smpayne69 on July 22, 2007, at 8:57:45
In reply to Re: How I beat RLS and discovered ADD., posted by linkadge on July 22, 2007, at 8:32:51
I wish you the very best of luck in your own personal search. Many I have spoken with are still searching for themselves. I beleive I was able to truely understand what was going on within myself through logic and clarity. There are a lot of amazing stories of very successful people, that through first really understanding themselves, have 'awakened' in a sense. A prime example, is Robin Williams who would more than likely be dead now if it wasn't for his decision to get to the root of his neurological bleep and allow lithium to control the mediaton between his chemical bi-polar tendencies. His was considered a severe case in which drove him to cocaine in his younger years. Again, cocaine is chemical 'changer' and lithium, a 'controller'. A lot of people do not understand the difference at that basic level and make bad choices. Its like putting jetfuel in your sedan. Sure, you are gonna feel that desired power of accelartion, but the engine is gonna fry. Put Premium petro in the sedan, it purrs like a kitten, alowing your to give it a desirable punch in a controlled manner...just be wary of the good boys in blue (or whatever color enforcement wears in your neck of the woods).
Again, best wishes. And, if there is anything I can do to help, let me know. In all fairness, I will continue my log throughout the next 12 months, including anything positive and/or negetive to be fair to myself, and those that are looking for possible clues and maybe considering an ADD med. If the medication stops working, or I have to increase the dosage, I will post it. I actually plan on putting up a website displaying my theories and logs, and any dramatic changes.
SMpayne.
Posted by linkadge on July 22, 2007, at 10:53:43
In reply to Re: How I beat RLS and discovered ADD. » linkadge, posted by smpayne69 on July 22, 2007, at 8:57:45
>I wish you the very best of luck in your own >personal search. Many I have spoken with are >still searching for themselves. I beleive I was >able to truely understand what was going on >within myself through logic and clarity.
Unfortunately, nobody can be completely sure that they are targeting the underlying biochemical abnormality that drives their mysery. Sometimes medications can relieve all symtpoms and therefore create the sense that they are curing things, when infact they are only masking the true problem.
For instance, polyunsaturalted fat deficiancy (namely omega-3) will cause severe depletions in brain dopamine content, especially in the frontal cortex.
Study after study has failed to show that there is any substantial abnormality in the dopamine transporter in ADHD. Literally hundreds if not thousands of studies have attempted to show that individuals with ADHD have some sort of abormally working dopamine transporter. Yet most studies fail to show any such abnormality. If there is a "dopamine deficiancy" in ADHD, then the problem is likely to lie elswhere. MAO-B, nutrient deficiancies, loss of dopamine receptor integrity, excessive activity of competing brain chemicals, deficiancies in dopamine receptor growth factors such as GDNF etc., are all possabilities. (For instance some studies have shown deficiancies in DHA, for instance, an omega-3 crutial in dopamine system function in ADHD) (DHA is a growing alternative supplement for ADHD)
>There are a lot of amazing stories of very >successful people, that through first really >understanding themselves, have 'awakened' in a >sense. A prime example, is Robin Williams who >would more than likely be dead now if it wasn't >for his decision to get to the root of his >neurological bleep and allow lithium to control >the mediaton between his chemical bi-polar >tendencies.Possably. Although, there are many cases in which lithium has not worked, or has done more to nullify/dampen than it has to awaken. There are many individudals who feel lithium had stolen their creativity, and left life too flat. Lithium often leaves much to be desired.
Who knows if Robin Williams would have made it to Hollywood in the first place had he been stabilized on lithium beforehand. Even Robin Williams admits to cheating on his medication regiment (ie lowering doses before certain gigs etc). I personally wouldnt go so far as to say he wouldn't be alive, thats something nobody will know.
Lithium for instance, essentially disabled my mother, causing too much cognative impairment to continue working as a school teacher. She has also gained some 100 pounds, and has a number of medical problems that have resulted.
>His was considered a severe case in which drove >him to cocaine in his younger years.
A lot of celebrities use drugs. Being a celebrity causes a lot of stress, that many don't know how to handle. Mental illnesses may arguably be more the result of their coureer.
>Again, cocaine is chemical 'changer' and >lithium, a 'controller'. A lot of people do not >understand the difference at that basic level >and make bad choices.
Define bad choice? Amphetamine and cocaine are both abused substances. Amphetamine, and ritalin (analogue of cocaine!) are both used to control ADHD. Many people who abuse cocaine may infact be attempting to medicate illnesses for which there are no other effective treatments. I don't see how prescription amphetamine is any more a controller than street amphetamine (asside from a few extra contaminants). When you use dexedrine/adderal for ADHD you are taking amphetamines.
>Its like putting jetfuel in your sedan. Sure, >you are gonna feel that desired power of >accelartion, but the engine is gonna fry.How is treating oneself with ADHD meds any different? They are stimulants too! There is some evidence to suggest that amphetamines (in doses used to control adhd) are neurotoxic.
>Again, best wishes. And, if there is anything I >can do to help, let me know. In all fairness, I >will continue my log throughout the next 12 >months, including anything positive and/or >negetive to be fair to myself, and those that >are looking for possible clues and maybe >considering an ADD med.
>If the medication stops working, or I have to >increase the dosage, I will post it. I actually >plan on putting up a website displaying my >theories and logs, and any dramatic changes.
Go for it if thats what you want. Although, if your ADHD med poops out, you may loose the interest in tracking its performance.
Linakdge
Posted by smpayne69 on July 22, 2007, at 18:21:01
In reply to Re: How I beat RLS and discovered ADD., posted by linkadge on July 22, 2007, at 10:53:43
Hey there, thanks for sharing your point of view. Actually, I have ADD which, as you know, quite different that ADHD in some aspects...from what we know anyway.
And I agree, the pure amphetimine may only be a patch for now, but from my own efforts, history, and symptons...there is a strong possibility that the major chemical the affects or is affected, is dopamine. Simply from what science has uncovered to date.
Just to put you back on track as to the purpose I put the post up. It was not to convince anyone that a specific drug or practice is for everyone. The intent was to reinforce self awareness as to what you actually put in your body and for which reason. Which I believe is the very thing you are eluding to.
After a couple years of really getting into understanding where research is today and the phylosophy of natural drugs designed to stimulate and support deficiencies, and those that alter and taint at the molecular level for reasons of enhancements or recreation, I knew that this issue is present in all aspects of our health. Should we take more than normal amounts of B12 because out skin is bad and causes damage psychologically. Or, should we doubt the fact that altering the chemical make-up in the veins of a diabetic with insulin, because our belief is that no matter what you do chemically, your body will become tolerant, so you have only a few months to live. Meanwhile, the same insulin is being abused in althletes in Steroid stacks. In the case of the diabetic, the problem is diagnosed as close as posible and s solution given. Can we cure diabeties yet?? No, can we 'patch' it as best we can and allow people to live a mostly normal life?? Yes, as long as they don't abuse or fail to manage.
In contrast, the misuse of the process gives grown men unaattural defects.
Again, I believe fact is constant. The hard part is getting the best 'patch' to do the job if there is no cure or knowledge...only theories. Such as ADD and dopamine.
From this, formed the base theory of my own issue. Once I understood my disorder was actually physical, I simply bumbed it up with what has been research at this point about our noggin. So, I believe I have the best patch for my the problem...furthermore, from what we DO know about nerochemisty, it makes sense. So, having my mind in sync with my brain, that in itself is a healer.
I responded to a post from another in this forum which I have pasted below. It goes a little more into my direction and frame of thought.
SMPayne.
....Hi Jerry,Yeah, I don't believe you are going to see the benefits of the controlled dopamine when you are adding a load of Opiates to the mix. In some manner, you may be 'breaking even' as if you were not on either drug at all, just now simply physically addicted.
Question: Are you taking the Hydro because of the sense of well being and pleasure? I can certainly understand if you are...I thought about that when I was on it, but quickly changed my mind after a crash refresher biochem course. I new the hunger would never stop and the balance would never be met. If you are taking it as part of a pain management therapy, you may have to stay on it, or put major time into seeking a non Opiate pain reliever. Many people start taking Opiates and stay on it long after the pain has gone because of the effects and addiction.
In my own opinion, and my personal experience with hydrocodone (Lortab), I went from 6 tablets a day as prescribed, right up to 12 a day because my body WAS becoming accustomed to the increase in Opiates. Add that to my tendency for addiction due to my chemical makeup, it was a train wreck waiting to happen. You may not have increased the Hydro intake as quickly as I did due to the fact you are also on Adderall, because if many theories are remotely correct, the increase in your Dopamine control process allowed for the extended desire feelings. Of course, that is just pure theory and you may have reacted completely different, so take it with the grain of salt that it is.So, my suggestion is talk to your doctor. You are going to most probably feel the effects of 2 different withdrawals, but by maintaining communication with your doc, the misery can be lessened.
I believe you are going to have to put some time into this, such as I did. You are most likely at the 'I am so sick of being this way' stage, which I understand to be the first step toward clarity.
I think coming off the Hydro is the definite first step. If you can, and do not require it for pain (or can use an alternate solution) have your Doctor manage you off very slowly. Now, there is kind of a trick that I have picked up from Mind studies and lectures and decided to try them after my initial attempt to withdrawal was unsuccessful; instead of coming off, I seemed to be only able to just manage on the current dose and spread the times out a little. With the known facts that, at the very basic level, animals learn and remember most from the act of surprise; as do humans. So, you need to trick your mind into believing that less of the hydro is the same as more. Let me explain; you have to 'manually' operate the reward center in your brain. So set up a rough schedule of withdrawal timeline. Do not drop the entire schedule to quickly, but initially try to stop taking it for 2 days. MAKE SURE you speak to your Doctor prior to doing this, as it does increase system stress, and we all have completely different tolerances. My 2 days, could be 1 day or 4 days for you...just try to keep the principle idea in mind.
So I decided to spend the weekend hunkered down at home with a loved one. My wife was my guiding hand in this process when I finally figured out how to properly withdrawal. Now, keep in mind I was ingesting 6000mg(12 X 500mg tabs) per day! I was actually at a point where I started observing disruptions in the motor skills area. So, on the evening of the 2nd day I was in a pretty bad way. I felt like my body was going to compress and explode at the same time. But I knew that if I could not handle any more, my wife would provide the next dose that my body was craving; and only under the guidelines we set prior to starting this. Knowing this severely reduces the anxiety that comes as part of the withdrawal process and can manifest differently in everyone. I had planned to back down to 10 a day starting on Monday, a goal that I thought I could easily attain. Setting unrealistic goals will react negatively and will actually act against the natural reward system. So, it was approaching the 40 hr mark and I decided that I put my body through enough stress for the initial 'mental shocking' process.
Now something very curious happened to me mentally and physically. My mind went from wanting the Opiate for the addiction of how it made me feel, to that of instinctive survival. Hence, why some addicts kill, steel, and lie to get one fix...basic survival instinct. Well, I started talking to my wife while shaking and sweating and trying to focus. Her having more psychology study from her time in university, and me not being very mentally aware at the time, I asked her if something else may be taking dominance in my mind. I was really at a point where I did not care about obtaining pleasure, I just wanted to release the pain.This was a CRITICAL point in my withdrawal process. Simply put, survival is stronger than pleasure, when not considering someone with manic depression and really don't feel like even obtaining please, and has a difficult time wanting to even survive. I knew my feelings of depression were simply the lack of pleasure sensors firing. So, I focused on my instinctive survival impulses. You can really logically feel these instincts coming to surface, so be careful to ensure to keep a handle on emotions such as aggression. I'm lucky my wife didn't leave me the amount of times I snapped at her during this process.
So, I decided to have my wife call my employer and tell him I was really sick and would most likely not be in the next day; nowhere near a lie! I WANTED to fight with this inner enemy, demon...whatever you believe to call it. We all know that it's called something different by all societies, but is very much the same. I did not fight too long, maybe a couple hours, but that really helped. My mind was ready to accept the hydro to help the pain, not get the desire. And, I managed to fight a couple extra hours past my goal.
It was about midnight or so and my wife gave me 2 Hydro (Down from the 3 I normally took). It was about the regular 45 minute reaction time before I started feeling my muscles relaxing, my mind clearing, and breathing coming back to normal. As indicated in my previous post about the steps of study I performed, RLS really hit hard with the withdrawal as well...giving proof to my own issue with dopamine related RLS. The dopamine during a withdrawal may be in a state of flux with all kinds of nerve related wonders happening. About 2 hours into it, I was totally relaxed and DANGER!! I felt the pleasure a little like I did the first time I started. DO NOT focus on the pleasure, FOCUS on the relief of the withdrawal! Play the misery in your mind, and how it has been relieved. The 'Mind' is a powerful player here.
For me, came a surprise. I woke up the next morning with not so much of that morning disoriented craving. It was there but much further back in my mind. I believe the initial stage of starving my system and then feeding it a lesser amount completely and subconsciencly tricked my mind into thinking it was MORE than normal. I continued to focus on the misery relief the drug had given me, with only 2/3rds the dosage. Be strong mentally here! Don't take anymore until you physically feel you need it. But, don't punish yourself like you did with the initial 2 day gap...your mind knows its being trained even if you don't. Just like the shock collar (PETA Approved) we used on our extremely bad beagle, Gracie. When the door opened and she saw a break, instinctively she needed to run and track a scent. Being a part of the hound family and her being a full breed, her indicatives heritage is extremely strong. So, upon chasing the dog for miles, I would scold her for actually doing what was totally natural, necessary, and really out of her control. So enter the collar. Both my wife and I were extremely apprehensive about using this tool to train. So, what would anyone do?? Get the brother-in-law to test it on himself. He put it on the medium setting and held it to his breast bone...similar to where the dog would feel it. He would not allow me to operate the controller of course, so I sadly surrendered any thoughts of pure pleasure of brotherly torture. In any case, he pressed the button and jumped about 5 feet! My first thought was of horror (to be honest, the horror was mild...most emotions we pretty dead during the last stages of the Opiate experiment). However, my wife had no problem thinking of what would happen to our little doggy. However, the in-law stated that it was just a deep vibration that surprised him, not electrified him. He had no repeating the process So, we put the collar on the dog and picked a command word; We use STOP. With faith, we opened the door and watched the tail end of our pup tear out only to slow down a little when she heard the high pitch tone of her collar (The collar is equipped with a high pitched tone that the dog will always connect to the memory of initial shock, or surprise). However, she continued on only to be met with a ground departing surprise and a yelp. Then I command 'STOP!' very firmly. She came back into the house with her tail between her legs. That was the only time we used the shock feature, and she never runs from from us. If her mind gets a little overwhelmed by instinct, a tone will immediately bring the memory of shock back which relates to STOP. Now all we do is say STOP. This was also accomplished in 2 days. Now that we controlled the natural instinct, Gracie is able to really use her instinctive senses because we can take her out to a large park and let her go, confidently knowing that we can snap her out of it at any time. During this whole process, her reward system is active in her and she gets the pleasure from her instinctive need to hunt. I throw medium heavy bones deep into a local wooded area and she hunts and retrieves. Now, when at home, she is a completely different dog. Much better behavior, now stressful chewing, etc. Her brain is now chemically balanced with the help of an external tool. Of course, people would argue that we did not need the collar, just let her go be a free hunting dog...but the is not our current reality is it? The dog would always be in danger of the elements of nature, would not gain much more benefit. To quote the Dog Whisperer, "Dogs want to work.". That's why that species are such loyal companions...they get the greatest pleasure release from pleasing a loving owner.
So, back to my point. As the Dogs instinctive motivation for survival out ways it's desire, the desire is controlled. In our case, when withdrawing, we have to hit that wall where survival out ways the need for pleasure. To take my little Gracie as an example, if I started one day complete abusing her, she would most likely keep coming to me because of instinctive addiction until she hit the wall and survival instinct took over and I found myself half eating and left for the local squirrels.
That Monday morning, I was contemplating how I REALLY truly felt. I knew that I felt a lot better than the night before, but could easily feel the need for that desire fix again on the edge of my mind. So, what was this physically?? My RLS was again subsided due to the dopamine regulation (Understand that the cause of RLS is still not completely known...I have simply discovered that the control of Dopamine took care of mine; whether it was directly or indirectly the dopamine is something that is still unknown to me. My own belief is that the balance between triggers and receptors play a very major role). So, I theorized that the greater the gap in the syncronizating between the very basic and instinctive chemicals in our brains, the greater the need for the basic function of survival. When in withdrawal, many, many times our systems leap into the adrenaline overload state of 'fight or flight' and can be very unsettling; sweating, crazing heart rate increases, and no apparent reason for it; we could be simply trying to relax.
I found in the state of mind that I had put myself, I was able to go well into the afternoon before taking another 2 Hydro. Again, my body accepted them happily, but with a little decreased pleasure feeling again. I was then in a weird sort of bind. I asked myself, "Can I use the pleasure culprit to my advantage?" I knew that the longer I went without the Hydro, the more I would feel the pleasure in its effects; but now with controlled management of mind. I went very late into the evening before taking the drug again prior to sleeping. This was also partly planned so I could get sleep before work the next morning. Sure enough, I received more pleasure for my work in sticking it out. This was me manually using my inherent reward/pleasure system that is a natural occurrence. This REALLY helped me solidify many things. Primarily, that I was starting to side with my sense of survival more than that of pleasure, because I focused on the agony of misery over the reduced amount of pleasure; I started viewing Hydro as pain relief more than a pleasure giver, image that!
With all this in mind, the continued process went pretty smooth. I really started feeling stable about a week into it. The RLS stayed, but lessened. Approximately a month later, I was convinced I had beaten it and 'shocked' my mind into unconsciously reacting with survival instinct when remembering the withdrawal experience, and in turn, putting kind of a fog over the memory of the pleasure the drug gave. During the entire process of withdrawal, I did go through mood swings, depression, lack of motivation, etc... But, I really believed that this was driven by a related but much different issue.
For me, this was where I compiled all all the logical facts. In short, everything pointed to a 'difference' in the chemical dance between my most basic chemicals. As stated before, I think in a different place and time, my balance may have been more closely balanced to the expectations of society. In 500 years from now, hypothetically, we may not require near the attention span as we do today due to such innovations as cortical implants. Maybe extremely focused attention capabilities would hinder a new age process in allowing your brain to completely relax during a 'neural stack upload'. Who really knows? Some of my own theories are part philosophical, psychological, biological, and spiritual. Furthermore, I think the meaning of life is to reach a point where all areas are completely in sync. But I will spare you any more of my thoughts and point you toward His Holiness, the Dali Lama who has done immense research, study, and contemplation on this very thing. I recently read his newest release, "The Universe in a Single Atom", read by Richard Gere.
So Jerry, you have a different issue. If you were able to get by without the Hydro from chronic pain and able to complete withdrawal from the drug, you would then have to consider the Adderall and the dopamine factor. You really have to think about how you feel? And remember, the natural brain's Opiates are to be managed and regulated by the dopamine. If you were able to 'fog' out the intense pleasure of the Hyrdo from it's initial use, you may feel small bursts of elation and inner happiness already and simply have yet to consciously noticed it. Your brain has just gone through trauma, so you may be getting all kinds of signals. Anything from sudden feeling of wanting to cry, or bursts of laughter...its hard to tell. Just keep your eye on the ball, and try to reset things and look at it with new, unbiased logic and less feeling. Keep a daily log through this entire process so you can track these feelings; it really helped me stay on track.
So, your quirk is the Addrall. I would guess it to be hard to gauge whether the Adderall is doing anything for you because you don't have a clean slate to measure from. I would suggest you, again, speak with your Doctor and ask his opinion on possibly reducing your Adderall intake for a period of time, then increasing again. This may help you feel the true benefits of correct Opiate management and a real feeling of the reward/pleasure instinct that drive the most successful and happiest people. Or, if you are only on a small dose of Adderall, ask about increasing it. I personally, due to my scientific nature, would have to completely come off the Adderall and spend a little time before starting up again. Again, that's my personality. I need to know that if I commit to something, I am getting the maximum benefit. So, when you feel ready, start with a dosage that you and your Doctor feel is right.
Sorry for such a long post, but if I am going to offer support to another that is seeking to improve their lives and need answers as much as I did, I feel you should know all the steps I took to correct my state of being. Also, many people will tell you that Adderall is bad, addictive, just a patch, etc. For some that is all they are because that's what their mind perceives them to be; and we all know how powerful the mind can be. In unbiased studies by the worlds top pharmacology, psychology, and biochemical governing institutes, Adderall, when used responsibly and correctly, is very unlikely to cause an addiction. So much that it has been legalized and prescribed to both children and adults. On a side note, I DO believe that it can be very addictive if used by an individual that has been misdiagnosed or used the drug for enhancement. That is why it is so important for us as individuals to treat Doctors as more of guides to understanding what is really going on inside. If you have a specific problem with how Dopamine handles the management of your pleasure/reward/motivation centers then a correct adjustment to that receptor has been shown repeatedly to improve many aspects of peoples lives. If you are using Adderall as a diet pill, or a study drug, then you are asking for real trouble. Obstructing a perfectly chemically sync'd neuronet may be just as devastating as heroin or cocaine, and may ultimately lead that person to addiction where normally there would not be a tendency for it. When individuals bring up the fact that the drug is just a temporary relief and your system will adapt build a tolerance, then think of the medication for people that are diabetic. They inject insulin into their system to control sugar levels. They have to ensure they use the correct dosage that is required to maintain a survivable blood sugar level. Now do Mr. Muscle at the local gym that uses insulin in a stacked concoction to increase hormones and muscle growth. Do we tell the person that is correcting their chemical balance with correct dosages of insulin that they can expect another 6 months on this Earthly planet before their systems build a tolerance?? And, do we applaud the guy that got all muscled up, lost the ability to reproduce, and is growing breasts, all to look good on the beach?? Drugs for ADD and other issues are all the same; they can help, or be abused. Do your homework; just ask my wife, I am a new man, awake and aware.
Disclaimer: For the purpose of my post and experience, I have used the brand Adderall. The brand or type of medication is not meant to condone its usage for anyone Else's struggles. It is up to the reader to determine where the unbalance, or dysfunction resides through their own personal research and professional assistance. If you can, also spend a couple sessions with a Psychologist when you are about to make a decision, just to ensure you are not biased by either the environment or internal conflict. Medications are simply our own bodies chemicals localized to ensure proper function...no different then Vitamin C to assist in the immune system. Just don't abuse it and ensure you completely understand your disorder before choosing a correcting medication.
PS...Please forgive spelling and grammar, my brain was just returned to me. :)
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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