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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by iforgotmypassword on May 31, 2007, at 18:17:36
i was wondering how detrimental, and potentially dangerous cognitively and sensorium-wise, it would be to still have lamotrigine left in your bloodstream during your first ECT and perhaps even with some left in further sessions.
at a daily dose of 100, you are at 50mg bloodwise approximately right before you take your morning pill. if you don't take the pill that day, but have ect, you are having ECT with approximately 50mg lamotrigine still active in your system. or if you did it the next day 25mg? or the day after that 12.5mh?
can lamotrigine do damage in certain amounts for an ect session, at what level would that risk disappear? 12.5? maybe even 25mg? or more like 6.25? or even that is not safe?
i also take magnesium malate and zinc citrate multiple times per day, and i tend to worry that i am very likely magnesium deficient. any impact on what i take here that could be unsafe? or could it in fact prove helpful?
would ECT boot all of that calcium out, and put me where i could get Mg back into cells properly again? i hope... i really want to get rid of my paralysis and these perpetual since paxil 6 years ago extrapyramidal problems.
Posted by iforgotmypassword on May 31, 2007, at 18:37:55
In reply to lamotrigine and ECT, posted by iforgotmypassword on May 31, 2007, at 18:17:36
i also take algae DHA 200mg 4x a day (unless i am short on cash)
i am also looking at taking flax oil + taking more estrogen, to up my ALA to EPA abilities.
i was looking at the water4.net product too, which would be expensive as i would prolly be taking so many a day.
i am a vegetarian so thats why i look for fish oil substitutes, but since most people take fish oil, they would know more about if DHA and EPA abilities to help stabilize and strengthen cells maybe harmful or of benefit during ECT. they seem to have a protective effect that may be in some ways analagous to anticonvulsants but through different actions. would this be a hazard? (or would its protective tendancies be a benefit?)
i am also considering taking aricept during ECT as according to that study article abstract on pubmed.
Posted by linkadge on May 31, 2007, at 19:00:17
In reply to fish oil safe also safe during ECT? maybe benefit?, posted by iforgotmypassword on May 31, 2007, at 18:37:55
I'd be very carefull.
There isn't a lot of data on such combinations. If you take an anticonvulsant there is a chance you might not have a theraputic seizure.
I am not sure what they do if you don't have a seizure, up the juice?
Anyhow, cholinergic agonists such as aricept may prolong seizure, and magnesium may also alter threshold.
I don't know if it is possable to use agents to acheive neuroprotection from ECT, since I do believe that ECT is a brain disabling treatment, ie I think that brain damage is necessary to confer some of the benifit.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on May 31, 2007, at 21:37:50
In reply to Re: fish oil safe also safe during ECT? maybe benefit?, posted by linkadge on May 31, 2007, at 19:00:17
Link so the reason for ECT is to damage part of the brain why is this? Love Phillipa
Posted by OzLand on June 2, 2007, at 2:28:25
In reply to lamotrigine and ECT, posted by iforgotmypassword on May 31, 2007, at 18:17:36
The main problem with lamotrigine is that as an anticonvulsant it raises the seizure threshold level. This means you would need a higher charge to overcome the anticonvulsant effect. The purpose of ECT is to have a grand mal seizure which supposedly changes the chemical receptivity of the brain so one is less depressed and so one is able to better make use of antidepressant medications.The other compounds you speak of such as fish oil do nothing in particular with ECT. I took fish oil, calcium, and a multivitamin during ECT.
The other compounds you mention that are supposed to ameliorate any negative effects from ECT are purely hypothetical. Nothing definitive has been shown to actually ensure that memory deficits do not occur. Depending on a number of factors such as bilateral vs. unilateral, brief pulse vs. ultra-brief pulse, use of seizure threshold level vs. age related calculation, length of pulse charge, etc. all factor in to what will be memory problems. Everyone has retrograde amnesia from ECT. Other problems can include anterograde amnesia (retaining new memories), orientation problems, and other problems as you likely know.
Posted by linkadge on June 5, 2007, at 21:08:48
In reply to Re: fish oil safe also safe during ECT? maybe benefit? » linkadge, posted by Phillipa on May 31, 2007, at 21:37:50
More just that I think that the memory loss is part of why ECT is considered so effective.
In some mice studies, wiping out the mouse's memory is sufficiant to reduce its depressive symptoms.
Ignorance is bliss.
Linkadge
Posted by OzLand on June 5, 2007, at 23:04:13
In reply to Re: fish oil safe also safe during ECT? maybe benefit?, posted by linkadge on June 5, 2007, at 21:08:48
There are some more recent studies with mice that are showing that ECT actually causes new brain cells to grow in the amgydula. HUM. Other studies show it causes damage to that area of the brain. I learned I now have a lesion to that area of the brain that wasn't there prior to ECT. I have olfactory seizures now.
Posted by linkadge on June 6, 2007, at 6:42:00
In reply to Re: fish oil safe also safe during ECT? maybe benefit? » linkadge, posted by OzLand on June 5, 2007, at 23:04:13
Yeah, and who would want new brain cells in their amygdala (fear centres of the brain) anyway??
Propontents of ECT always reference studies of ECT inducing neurogenesis.
Well, enhanced neurogenesis has been noted to occur after most events involving significant brain dammage, epilepsy, head injury etc.
Linkadge
Posted by OzLand on June 6, 2007, at 20:33:21
In reply to Re: fish oil safe also safe during ECT? maybe benefit?, posted by linkadge on June 6, 2007, at 6:42:00
The amygdula is also where one forms and stores memories with connections to the hypothalamus. So, I wonder about the growing of new cells. I now have a lesion on the right side since ECT. And I am still having problems with forming and storing new memories. So, my take is it damaged my amygdula on the right side.
Posted by linkadge on June 7, 2007, at 14:12:56
In reply to Re: fish oil safe also safe during ECT? maybe benefit? » linkadge, posted by OzLand on June 6, 2007, at 20:33:21
Hmm. Do you have any symptoms of reduced fear? I know that damage to the amygdala can sometimes either reduce responces to fear or enhance them.
Linkadge
Posted by OzLand on June 7, 2007, at 19:09:45
In reply to Re: fish oil safe also safe during ECT? maybe benefit? » OzLand, posted by linkadge on June 7, 2007, at 14:12:56
I have not been very fearful, but now that you mention it, after ECT I really did not feel anything, no emotions. Now, some three months post ECT, I have more normal emotions, but no fear. I get anxious about stuff that I did not used to get anxious about, but I don't feel fear at all for anything including death. Just so there is no misunderstanding, I am not thinking of suicide. I just don't feel afraid to die or afraid of anything for that matter. I do have olfactory hallucinations now, though, and am trying different med's with the neurologist to see what works best.
Posted by linkadge on June 8, 2007, at 11:16:11
In reply to Re: fish oil safe also safe during ECT? maybe benefit? » linkadge, posted by OzLand on June 7, 2007, at 19:09:45
Interesting, perhaps the damage to the amygdala is responsable for your reduced capacity for fear.
Linkadge
Posted by OzLand on June 8, 2007, at 19:13:40
In reply to Re: fish oil safe also safe during ECT? maybe benefit?, posted by linkadge on June 8, 2007, at 11:16:11
I will see what the neurologist has to say when I see him again on July 3rd.
This is the end of the thread.
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