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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by hgi698 on February 22, 2007, at 23:52:15
I had an interesting effect from buspar (buspirone), it seemed to instill a religious feeling in me. Looking around at the world when i went outside seemed different somehow. It gave me a very serene feeling. Normally I am not religious at all so this was quite a difference for me. If I felt that way all the time, i definitely might be more spiritual. The effect while nice, only lasted for a few weeks and I seemed to develop a tolerance. Has anybody else had a response like this to this drug or any others?
Apparently 5-ht1a binding correlates with religiosity.
see http://www.beliefnet.com/story/140/story_14076_1.html
Buspirone is an agonist at the 5-ht1a receptor so maybe this is the reason? I think LSD and mdma have 5-ht1a agonist activities too.
Posted by yxibow on February 23, 2007, at 1:06:07
In reply to Buspar Increasing Religiosity, posted by hgi698 on February 22, 2007, at 23:52:15
> I had an interesting effect from buspar (buspirone), it seemed to instill a religious feeling in me. Looking around at the world when i went outside seemed different somehow. It gave me a very serene feeling. Normally I am not religious at all so this was quite a difference for me. If I felt that way all the time, i definitely might be more spiritual. The effect while nice, only lasted for a few weeks and I seemed to develop a tolerance. Has anybody else had a response like this to this drug or any others?
> Apparently 5-ht1a binding correlates with religiosity.
> see http://www.beliefnet.com/story/140/story_14076_1.html
> Buspirone is an agonist at the 5-ht1a receptor so maybe this is the reason? I think LSD and mdma have 5-ht1a agonist activities too.
I can't get a link off that magazine, so maybe its down. Its gets into that god and science thing, its just really hard to prove anything and the argument goes in circles.Scientifically I would say you experienced a period of true tranquility due to the 5HT component of Buspar, and I see nothing wrong with that. As for religion, its an unprovable thing, but if the article wants to associate it, its their perogative.
I'm not religious -- I'm agnostic -- but there was a break at 80mg on Cymbalta and I felt some sort of epiphany or something temporarily. Probably the Cymbalta kicking in since it is a very subtle agent.
-- Jay
Posted by Quintal on February 23, 2007, at 3:55:31
In reply to Buspar Increasing Religiosity, posted by hgi698 on February 22, 2007, at 23:52:15
The article says that religiosity is linked to low levels of serotonin, so you would expect a 5-HT1A antagonist to provoke feelings of religiosity more than an agonist. I have similar feelings to those you describe on opiates. Pindolol is a 5-HT1A agonist too. I would be interesting to see how that affected you. Also bear in mind that buspirone is a weak D2 antagonist.
LSD seems to operate mainly as a 5-HT2A agonist.
Q
Posted by bassman on February 23, 2007, at 11:03:40
In reply to Buspar Increasing Religiosity, posted by hgi698 on February 22, 2007, at 23:52:15
The religious experience I had on Buspar was that I wished to God my doc would prescribe something that worked.:>}
Seriously, though, I do think that spirituality is a very quiet voice that is overwhelmed by the noise of the material and internal worlds-and that the first step towards any religious experience is to achieve peace; I think that it why meditation has traditionally been so important.
Posted by linkadge on February 23, 2007, at 11:50:12
In reply to Re: Buspar Increasing Religiosity, posted by bassman on February 23, 2007, at 11:03:40
It is certainly possable. I have had meds change the way I precieve my religion.
There is a high binding of 5-ht1a receptors in the temporal lobes. Since buspar is a stronger presynaptic autoreceptor agonist, it will actually reduce serotonergic firing which could make it a functional post synaptic 5-ht1a antagonist, which may account for the feelings.
Linkadge
Posted by hgi698 on February 23, 2007, at 16:42:57
In reply to Buspar Increasing Religiosity, posted by hgi698 on February 22, 2007, at 23:52:15
I think what they said in the study is that people who had the lowest binding of the 5-ht1a receptor were the most religious. I think from a neuroscience point of view, lower binding means a lower receptor amount. Usually a lower serotonin receptor amount is due to increased activation of that receptor so it is downregulated in response. This would indicate that increased activity at the 5-ht1a (i.e. an agonist) is associated with increased religiosity. I am almost positive that my experience was due to post-synaptic 5-ht1a receptor activation as opposed to the somatodendritic autoreceptor.
Posted by linkadge on February 24, 2007, at 13:41:26
In reply to Low binding = increased serotonin activation, posted by hgi698 on February 23, 2007, at 16:42:57
>I think what they said in the study is that >people who had the lowest binding of the 5-ht1a >receptor were the most religious.
Yes, I belive the same is true in temporal lobe epilepsy, ie there is a very low binding of 5-ht1a. There is a link between temporal lobe epilepsy and religiosity.
>I think from a neuroscience point of view, lower >binding means a lower receptor amount. Usually a >lower serotonin receptor amount is due to >increased activation of that receptor so it is >downregulated in response.
Not necessarily. Stress for instance, decreases the activity of the gene that codes for 5-ht1a, hence decreasing the population of 5-ht1a, but I do not think that this is due to an increase of serotonin.
It is true that 5-ht receptors downregulate in response to 5-ht, but I don't think the converse is true, ie low 5-ht expression is necessarily indicative of high serotonin.
Another example would be panic disorder, which is associated with low 5-ht1a binding. SSRI's work in part by stimulating the existing 5-ht1a receptors.
>This would indicate that increased activity at >the 5-ht1a (i.e. an agonist) is associated with >increased religiosity.
Not so sure one can make that conclusion. I think that one might be able to conclude that low functional activation of 5-ht1a results in increased limbic kindling and hence increased religious awareness.
Buspar is a more potent 5-ht1a autoreceptor agonist, than it is a post-synaptic agonist. This will result in an overal decrease in hippocampal serotonin which may result in less overal post-synaptic 5-ht1a agonism.
It is the decrease in functional post-synaptic 5-ht1a agonism that I think is causing the religiosity.
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According to:http://iangoddard.net/AD_01.htm)
buspirone reduces serotonin in the hippocampus (Sharp, McQuade, Bramwell, & Hjorth, 1993
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Post synaptic 5-ht1a agonism in limbic regions exerts anticonvusant effects which would likely quell hyper-religious feelings. Low binding of 5-ht1a in hyper religous people probably reflects an inability of 5-ht to exert its anticonvuslant effects in limbic regions. So, it is my understanding that decreasing post synaptic limbic 5-ht1a agonism would result in religiosity.
If buspar was causing religiosity through post synaptic 5-ht1a agonism, then one would expect the same thing from SSRI's which are potent functional 5-ht1a agonists. But, for many people SSRI's totally kill
Thats the way I see it at least.
Linkadge
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