![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 21 to 45 of 55. Go back in thread:
Posted by juanantoniod on January 16, 2007, at 17:16:43
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by Karen44 on January 13, 2007, at 17:58:28
Have you considered VNS Therapy for depression? I had the implant in January of 2006 and I seem to have a little bit of improvement, and I've only been at the therapeutic dose for 6 months. I think that ECT is great for acute, can't get out of bed, depression. But for chronic, low grade, treatment resistant depression, VNS Therapy can work better.
If you've really tried all medications and combos and medication adjuncts, such as stims, then I would say give VNS a look. After you view the Cyberonics Website, vnstherapy.com, if you are still interested, then get the book, "Out of the Black Hole". It's all about VNS for treatment of depression. Also fill out the IVEA form for Cyberonics so that you can start finding a doc in your area to do it, and get started on insurance approval. Let me know if you have any questions.
Best wishes,
Antonio
Posted by Karen44 on January 16, 2007, at 22:52:30
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?/Job impact, posted by stargazer on January 16, 2007, at 10:39:58
> My depression always affected my job and this has been for more than 20 years and I'm still searching inthat situation. For me it's always a day by day struggle. I had a brief moment when I too contemplated ECT but eventually tried something that turned me around, but not for very long. I no longer would try ECT, I have too much experience with it, having worked in the field.
>
> I have quit many jobs because of the depression...Sad but true my career has never been what it could have been but I am thankful I can still work when I feel better, but forget cimbing the career ladder, that is all behind me now. The depression has been a constant since my teens. Brief responses to MAO's showed me I did have the capacity for career success, but the deprssion always returned and made it impossible for me to excel in any positions I had.
>
> I always regret the lost opportunities. I have come to realize I'll never be a superstar but understand once I get this under control again, I will be able to work. Never in a high level, stress ridden field, which tells me that is not where I belong anyway.
>
> SG
StargazerSorry about your situation with jobs. My situation has been very different. I have excelled; I was one of four people accepted into a postdoctoral fellowship program in clinical psychology at Menninger's (then ranked number one in the county). They took four people each year from applicants from not just all over the u.s. but from all over the world. I am not meaning to brag but to make a point that I have exelled and have climbed the career ladder. The only job I ever quit was in 1980 and due to depression that resulted in hospitalization.
I have been researching like crazy about ECT and in the professional journals and looking hard at the data. I have stopped becuase enough is enough in that regard. I know what I would be willing to accept and not accept re ECT. I will be talking to a doctor who does ECT at U of C and one from a hospital closer to my home. I am also going to contact a psychiatrist in Topeka who I know from working at Menninger's and who I know personally as well. I learned by accident that he did or does ECT. I think he will be honest with me. I know I could mess up things with my job, but if something doesn't change, I won't have a job anyway. And, it would not be that easy for me to find another job in my field. Plus I am a few months shy of three years, and I will be retiring. So, yes I hope I don't have to go that route. My husband is a neuropsychologist and very upset that I even consider ECT. At the same time, he said he would not stand in my way.
VNS - I am not so sure it is so safe either any more than ECT.
Posted by juanantoniod on January 17, 2007, at 15:14:21
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?/Job impact, posted by Karen44 on January 16, 2007, at 22:52:30
VNS is much safer than ECT. It is done in *1* outpatient procedure, not many, and none of the following occurs:
Side Effects of Electroshock Therapy
It is well established and documented that memory impairment is the worst side effect and is the one most frequently cited by patients. The other most common side effects are headaches, nausea, confusion and muscle ache or soreness. Over the course of ECT, patients may have difficulty remembering newly learned information. Some patients report memory loss for events that occurred during the day, weeks, and months preceding ECT. Some patients have reported long lasting problems with recall of some of these memories and some patients have claimed they have “permanent brain damage.”> VNS - I am not so sure it is so safe either any more than ECT.
>
Posted by Karen44 on January 17, 2007, at 16:28:27
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?/Job impact » Karen44, posted by juanantoniod on January 17, 2007, at 15:14:21
> VNS is much safer than ECT. It is done in *1* outpatient procedure, not many, and none of the following occurs:
>
> Side Effects of Electroshock Therapy
> It is well established and documented that memory impairment is the worst side effect and is the one most frequently cited by patients. The other most common side effects are headaches, nausea, confusion and muscle ache or soreness. Over the course of ECT, patients may have difficulty remembering newly learned information. Some patients report memory loss for events that occurred during the day, weeks, and months preceding ECT. Some patients have reported long lasting problems with recall of some of these memories and some patients have claimed they have “permanent brain damage.”
>
> > VNS - I am not so sure it is so safe either any more than ECT.
> >
>
>
I don't know why, but my pdoc has concerns about VNS, says approval was rushed through the FDA before we have really studied whether or not there will be adverse consequences. What can I say; I am aware of the potential for adverse things happening with ECT.Karen44
Posted by juanantoniod on January 17, 2007, at 18:13:20
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?/Job impact, posted by Karen44 on January 17, 2007, at 16:28:27
VNS Therapy for *depression* was rushed through FDA because it is an important therapeutic option that needed to be available to the public. Any adverse effects would have been known by now, because it has been used for *many years* in the treatment of epilepsy. Now, it's almost the second line treatment if the first or second trial of medication fails. Use this information how you wish.
> > VNS is much safer than ECT. It is done in *1* outpatient procedure, not many, and none of the following occurs:
> >
> > Side Effects of Electroshock Therapy
> > It is well established and documented that memory impairment is the worst side effect and is the one most frequently cited by patients. The other most common side effects are headaches, nausea, confusion and muscle ache or soreness. Over the course of ECT, patients may have difficulty remembering newly learned information. Some patients report memory loss for events that occurred during the day, weeks, and months preceding ECT. Some patients have reported long lasting problems with recall of some of these memories and some patients have claimed they have “permanent brain damage.”
> >
> > > VNS - I am not so sure it is so safe either any more than ECT.
> > >
> >
> >
> I don't know why, but my pdoc has concerns about VNS, says approval was rushed through the FDA before we have really studied whether or not there will be adverse consequences. What can I say; I am aware of the potential for adverse things happening with ECT.
>
> Karen44
Posted by ryanz on January 17, 2007, at 21:18:34
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by Karen44 on January 13, 2007, at 17:58:28
Karen, here's something you might want to read if you have not already:
http://www.breggin.com/Electroshockscientific.pdf
Posted by Karen44 on January 17, 2007, at 21:31:31
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by ryanz on January 17, 2007, at 21:18:34
> Karen, here's something you might want to read if you have not already:
>
> http://www.breggin.com/Electroshockscientific.pdf
>
>Yes I have read what he had to say; I think it best that I stop posting on this topic as it is starting to upset me that everyone seems to want to convince me that I should not do ECT. I have read a lot more than you realize - I have talked to people on the etc.org boards, and frankly some of them have been more supportive than anyone here in spite of their difficulties. Some are vehemently opposed to ECT and were significantly damaged. Some have problems but are supportive. Some have had only minor or insignificant memory impairments. I have read all sorts of things, and as I said, I have also critically evaluated lots of journal articles on the subject. I know the risks, and it is up to me what I should do. I am trying other things. You have to live with yourself and your decisions, and I have to live with mine. I am truely sorry I ever posted on the subject as it hurts me that I may do something that is so disapproved of by most everyone here.
I wish you all well with your decisions, and please let me now make mine. Thank you.
Karen44
Posted by halcyondaze on January 17, 2007, at 22:04:57
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by Karen44 on January 17, 2007, at 21:31:31
Quoting Peter Breggin on THIS board?
Come on.
I guess you're prepared to stop all of your psychiatric medication, as he advocates?
Let's consider the source here.
I am truly ashamed to be posting here if this is the kind of standard we are now holding ourselves to.
Posted by ryanz on January 17, 2007, at 22:20:42
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by Karen44 on January 17, 2007, at 21:31:31
> Yes I have read what he had to say; I think it best that I stop posting on this topic as it is starting to upset me that everyone seems to want to convince me that I should not do ECT. I have read a lot more than you realize - I have talked to people on the etc.org boards, and frankly some of them have been more supportive than anyone here in spite of their difficulties. Some are vehemently opposed to ECT and were significantly damaged. Some have problems but are supportive. Some have had only minor or insignificant memory impairments. I have read all sorts of things, and as I said, I have also critically evaluated lots of journal articles on the subject. I know the risks, and it is up to me what I should do. I am trying other things. You have to live with yourself and your decisions, and I have to live with mine. I am truely sorry I ever posted on the subject as it hurts me that I may do something that is so disapproved of by most everyone here.
>
> I wish you all well with your decisions, and please let me now make mine. Thank you.
>
> Karen44
>Hey: you posted "publicly" not only here but elsewhere such as ect.org asking people's opinions about ECT and their experiences with ECT. You've been soliciting this information while at times often lecturing to others about ECT. You've made it very clear in multiple postings now that you've been trying to quote "educate yourself" and read as much as you can about ECT before making your decision.
All I did was post a simple link to a scientific paper that many people do not know about, including psychiatrists who conduct ECT.
I never made any personal comments at all regarding my opinion or my own experience with ECT on this board, nor did I ever say that you should or should not have ECT. I posted the link because you've been posting your questions and concerns about ECT all over the web. If you don't want people posting links to scientific papers, etc, then by all means do not solicit opinions in the future by posting all over the web.
And, btw, you are not the only one here having serious difficulties with life-threatening depression, and contrary to your comments, I think people 'have' been supportive of you here. Apparently, your idea of support is not to hear other struggling persons' honest opinions and experiences as to your type of concerns and questions, but rather I guess you just wanted responses that amount to, "don't worry, be happy!"
Whatever route you choose in addressing your depression, I wish you the best.
Posted by Karen44 on January 17, 2007, at 23:22:44
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by ryanz on January 17, 2007, at 22:20:42
I may have asked opinions, and I am not accusing anyone of anything. I am, however, sorry if some of you think you have to now become hostile. I think I should just stay away from this whole damn board. Just because you may also be depressed doesn't give you the right to attack me. NO MORE.
Karen44
Posted by Karen44 on January 17, 2007, at 23:29:59
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by ryanz on January 17, 2007, at 22:20:42
> > Yes I have read what he had to say; I think it best that I stop posting on this topic as it is starting to upset me that everyone seems to want to convince me that I should not do ECT. I have read a lot more than you realize - I have talked to people on the etc.org boards, and frankly some of them have been more supportive than anyone here in spite of their difficulties. Some are vehemently opposed to ECT and were significantly damaged. Some have problems but are supportive. Some have had only minor or insignificant memory impairments. I have read all sorts of things, and as I said, I have also critically evaluated lots of journal articles on the subject. I know the risks, and it is up to me what I should do. I am trying other things. You have to live with yourself and your decisions, and I have to live with mine. I am truely sorry I ever posted on the subject as it hurts me that I may do something that is so disapproved of by most everyone here.
> >
> > I wish you all well with your decisions, and please let me now make mine. Thank you.
> >
> > Karen44
> >
>
> Hey: you posted "publicly" not only here but elsewhere such as ect.org asking people's opinions about ECT and their experiences with ECT. You've been soliciting this information while at times often lecturing to others about ECT. You've made it very clear in multiple postings now that you've been trying to quote "educate yourself" and read as much as you can about ECT before making your decision.
>
> All I did was post a simple link to a scientific paper that many people do not know about, including psychiatrists who conduct ECT.
>
> I never made any personal comments at all regarding my opinion or my own experience with ECT on this board, nor did I ever say that you should or should not have ECT. I posted the link because you've been posting your questions and concerns about ECT all over the web. If you don't want people posting links to scientific papers, etc, then by all means do not solicit opinions in the future by posting all over the web.
>
> And, btw, you are not the only one here having serious difficulties with life-threatening depression, and contrary to your comments, I think people 'have' been supportive of you here. Apparently, your idea of support is not to hear other struggling persons' honest opinions and experiences as to your type of concerns and questions, but rather I guess you just wanted responses that amount to, "don't worry, be happy!"
>
> Whatever route you choose in addressing your depression, I wish you the best.Yes I did initially ask for opinions but not for over and over and over and over. I find your post very nasty and cruel. You do not know me at all,and for you to assume I want responses that indicate "don't worry, be happy" is the height of insult. I view your whole post as accusatory and hostile, and then you end with "I wish you the best." How passive-aggressive is that.
Karen44
Posted by ryanz on January 18, 2007, at 0:12:58
In reply to PLEASE tell me we have not resorted to this., posted by halcyondaze on January 17, 2007, at 22:04:57
> Quoting Peter Breggin on THIS board?
I did not "quote" anyone, nor did I post any of my own thoughts and comments pertaining to it. And just who are you to decide what information is mentioned on this board, particularly when it pertains to a published scientific paper in a medical journal?
>
> Come on.That's your own personal opinion of Breggin which some share and some do not. One of the reasons why this paper is relevant is because he lists a lot of negative findings by other ECT researchers that's been swept under the rug or forgotten about. Even if one does not like Breggin himself, the mere listing of references to negative studies on ECT is by itself enough to make the paper valuable.
The same goes with Sackeim and colleagues whom some respect and some hate. Sackeim admitted in video testimony to receiving money from the manufacturer of shock devices and providing advice to them at the same time he was receiving grant money from the government to investigate potential damage from ECT, while not publicly disclosing this in violation of the law and in violation of the honor code followed by researchers who submit entries to medical journals. Nevertheless, I posted a link to information from him as well recently. Sackeim's studies are referenced by the APA.
> Let's consider the source here.
People can read and decide for themselves whether a particular article is of value or not and compare it with other information on their own. They do not need you to do it for them. And that's the idea. There will be no consensus here or anywhere where else when it comes to papers by well-known major ECT opponents like Breggin, or to historical proponents like Fink and Sackeim. People should be able to read the controversial positions by well-known voices from both sides along with other information.
> I guess you're prepared to stop all of your > psychiatric medication, as he advocates?
All I did was post a URL linking to a published scientific paper that he authored. That's it. The only thing in my posting was a URL. I served neither as a an advocate or as an opponent to his views. Stop misrepresenting.
And if Breggin feels that antidepressant medications are overmarketed, overprescribed and often inappropriate for many of the millions of people taking these drugs, then people have a right to know about the position he is taking and his reasons for this regardless of whether you or I or anyone else disagrees with position. He did, afterall, write a book about it which was talked about on major news networks and he is a very well-known and experienced psychiatrist and researcher who is entitled to his opinion and the right to share his opinion and reasoning with others.
>I am truly ashamed to be posting here if this is >the kind of standard we are now holding >ourselves to
Well, feel free to stop posting. I won't argue with you on that, especially if you're going to be incredibly rude along with misrepresenting the actions and intentions of others. I did absolutely nothing to deserve being treated this way in thread. All I did was post a simple URL to a published medical study for purposes of sharing information after which I was personally attacked by you and Karen. I never even wrote about my personal opinion on ECT or my personal experience with it on this board.
The people who behaved inappropriately in this thread are you and Karen, and I offer no apology to her or to you for posting posting a simple html link to a published medical paper.
Posted by mindevolution on January 18, 2007, at 3:29:01
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left? » ryanz, posted by Karen44 on January 17, 2007, at 23:29:59
Yes I did initially ask for opinions but not for over and over and over and over. I find your post very nasty and cruel. You do not know me at all,and for you to assume I want responses that indicate "don't worry, be happy" is the height of insult. I view your whole post as accusatory and hostile, and then you end with "I wish you the best." How passive-aggressive is that.
Karen44I think you were supported by many of the people here, and got some of the highest quality responses that i have seen. i am sorry you didn't hear exactly what you wanted, but people here do often have decades of experience with all manner of mental health treatments.
most importantly you indicated the level of your intellectual accomplishments was of a very high standard, and quite rightly many people warned you of the impact that passing electricity through your brain can have on all aspects of intellectual performance (it is after all essentiallly random brain damage)
that said, it may be that imparing one's brain so much that one no longer notices one's symptoms might be a feasible option of last resort, but that is what it is, a brain damaging treatment of last resort, unless you also wish to consider lobotomy, which is still available for a consenting adult in distress.
i think the general consensus was to exhaust all other less damaging alternatives first.
although i understand it may well be difficult to rate each treatment in terms of its potential to cause damage, and I personally think that a register may help consumers consider the risks of various treatment, but that's another story.
i wish you well and bonne chance in making a decision that is suitable for you. btw have you tried the dopamine agonists? perhaps you may enjoy this reference to consider some further alternatives? [xxx]
Posted by Karen44 on January 18, 2007, at 8:23:41
In reply to Re: PLEASE tell me we have not resorted to this., posted by ryanz on January 18, 2007, at 0:12:58
> > Quoting Peter Breggin on THIS board?
>
> I did not "quote" anyone, nor did I post any of my own thoughts and comments pertaining to it. And just who are you to decide what information is mentioned on this board, particularly when it pertains to a published scientific paper in a medical journal?
>
> >
> > Come on.
>
> That's your own personal opinion of Breggin which some share and some do not. One of the reasons why this paper is relevant is because he lists a lot of negative findings by other ECT researchers that's been swept under the rug or forgotten about. Even if one does not like Breggin himself, the mere listing of references to negative studies on ECT is by itself enough to make the paper valuable.
>
> The same goes with Sackeim and colleagues whom some respect and some hate. Sackeim admitted in video testimony to receiving money from the manufacturer of shock devices and providing advice to them at the same time he was receiving grant money from the government to investigate potential damage from ECT, while not publicly disclosing this in violation of the law and in violation of the honor code followed by researchers who submit entries to medical journals. Nevertheless, I posted a link to information from him as well recently. Sackeim's studies are referenced by the APA.
>
> > Let's consider the source here.
>
> People can read and decide for themselves whether a particular article is of value or not and compare it with other information on their own. They do not need you to do it for them. And that's the idea. There will be no consensus here or anywhere where else when it comes to papers by well-known major ECT opponents like Breggin, or to historical proponents like Fink and Sackeim. People should be able to read the controversial positions by well-known voices from both sides along with other information.
>
> > I guess you're prepared to stop all of your > psychiatric medication, as he advocates?
>
> All I did was post a URL linking to a published scientific paper that he authored. That's it. The only thing in my posting was a URL. I served neither as a an advocate or as an opponent to his views. Stop misrepresenting.
>
> And if Breggin feels that antidepressant medications are overmarketed, overprescribed and often inappropriate for many of the millions of people taking these drugs, then people have a right to know about the position he is taking and his reasons for this regardless of whether you or I or anyone else disagrees with position. He did, afterall, write a book about it which was talked about on major news networks and he is a very well-known and experienced psychiatrist and researcher who is entitled to his opinion and the right to share his opinion and reasoning with others.
>
> >I am truly ashamed to be posting here if this is >the kind of standard we are now holding >ourselves to
>
> Well, feel free to stop posting. I won't argue with you on that, especially if you're going to be incredibly rude along with misrepresenting the actions and intentions of others. I did absolutely nothing to deserve being treated this way in thread. All I did was post a simple URL to a published medical study for purposes of sharing information after which I was personally attacked by you and Karen. I never even wrote about my personal opinion on ECT or my personal experience with it on this board.
>
> The people who behaved inappropriately in this thread are you and Karen, and I offer no apology to her or to you for posting posting a simple html link to a published medical paper.DR. BOB; WHERE ARE YOU WHEN WE NEED YOU; FIRST IN RESPONSE TO MY POST AND NOW THIS!!
Posted by Karen44 on January 18, 2007, at 8:34:33
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by mindevolution on January 18, 2007, at 3:29:01
I did not mean to say people have not been supportive; many have. In the past couple of days it has seemed that more people have started to be negative and no postives. I could be wrong as my depression is much worse now. I think if I go back for the last few days, I will find more negatives. Blueberry's case I have known about for some time, and I am truely sorry about what happened to him. He should not have gotten bilateral, and they should not have continued beyond the 4 or 6. He apparently had some doctor who has a protocol that he follows with most everyone, and I have just said that if I do ECT, I don't want someone like that.
I suppose now that one or two people are going to post and say I thought you were leaving the list. I am not the only one now who has felt pressured to leave and now a direct suggestion to someone else to just leave. This is not negative; it is plain destructive. I wish Dr. Bob would weigh in on this.
My initial requests were for feedback and to share what I had learned from the literature and elsewher. Ihave been very ambivalent about ECT. So, it was good to hear both sides. I am still ambivalent and yet also more depressed. I will go and talk to the two ECT docs and hopefully I will learn one or both can be flexible with what they do. Do I know the risks? Unfortunately, yes, all too well. I had not seen the article you sent, and so I very much appreciate it. I guess that is it for now. Must stop responding to anyone as I am at work and will get into trouble if I do much of this during work hours.
Karen44
Posted by ClearSkies on January 18, 2007, at 12:57:15
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by ryanz on January 17, 2007, at 22:20:42
>
> You've been soliciting this information while at times often lecturing to others about ECT.
>
>
> And, btw, you are not the only one here having serious difficulties with life-threatening depression, and contrary to your comments, I think people 'have' been supportive of you here. Apparently, your idea of support is not to hear other struggling persons' honest opinions and experiences as to your type of concerns and questions, but rather I guess you just wanted responses that amount to, "don't worry, be happy!"
>Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
Thank you,
ClearSkies, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by ClearSkies on January 18, 2007, at 13:04:06
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left? » ryanz, posted by Karen44 on January 17, 2007, at 23:29:59
> Yes I did initially ask for opinions but not for over and over and over and over. I find your post very nasty and cruel. You do not know me at all,and for you to assume I want responses that indicate "don't worry, be happy" is the height of insult. I view your whole post as accusatory and hostile, and then you end with "I wish you the best." How passive-aggressive is that.
>
> Karen44Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
Thanks,
ClearSkies, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by danr49 on January 18, 2007, at 13:32:20
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by Karen44 on January 17, 2007, at 21:31:31
> > Karen, here's something you might want to read if you have not already:
> >
> > http://www.breggin.com/Electroshockscientific.pdf
> >
> >
>
> Yes I have read what he had to say; I think it best that I stop posting on this topic as it is starting to upset me that everyone seems to want to convince me that I should not do ECT. I have read a lot more than you realize - I have talked to people on the etc.org boards, and frankly some of them have been more supportive than anyone here in spite of their difficulties. Some are vehemently opposed to ECT and were significantly damaged. Some have problems but are supportive. Some have had only minor or insignificant memory impairments. I have read all sorts of things, and as I said, I have also critically evaluated lots of journal articles on the subject. I know the risks, and it is up to me what I should do. I am trying other things. You have to live with yourself and your decisions, and I have to live with mine. I am truely sorry I ever posted on the subject as it hurts me that I may do something that is so disapproved of by most everyone here.
>
> I wish you all well with your decisions, and please let me now make mine. Thank you.
>
> Karen44
>
Honestly, Karen. Could you be anymore offensive?-Dan
Posted by ClearSkies on January 18, 2007, at 14:03:51
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by danr49 on January 18, 2007, at 13:32:20
>
> Honestly, Karen. Could you be anymore offensive?
>
> -Dan
Welcome to Psycho Babble, Dan. The idea of this site is support and education. To that end, we ask that you please don't post anything that would lead someone to feel accused or put down.Please take a moment to read the FAQ section of this site. The guidelines for civility can be found there.
Thanks,
ClearSkies, acting as a friendly neighbourhood poster.
Posted by Karen44 on January 18, 2007, at 18:57:00
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by mindevolution on January 18, 2007, at 3:29:01
If you read on another thread you will see that I have thanked others for their support. I have not attacked anyone personally. I have, however, responded to personal attacks. I don't understand the over-the-board hostility.
Karen44
Posted by Karen44 on January 18, 2007, at 19:01:37
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left? » danr49, posted by ClearSkies on January 18, 2007, at 14:03:51
I guess I can't respond when people send me nasty posts, Clearskies. So I will not say anything anymore even if someone attacks me. To respond to attacks is obviously not okay I guess.
Posted by ClearSkies on January 18, 2007, at 19:54:52
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by Karen44 on January 18, 2007, at 19:01:37
> I guess I can't respond when people send me nasty posts, Clearskies. So I will not say anything anymore even if someone attacks me. To respond to attacks is obviously not okay I guess.
It's fine to respond to posts that upset us, but we have to civil ourselves. That's why I issued the "please be civil" to you. It was not a personal attack on my part; and, as you can see, I posted to you in the capacity of deputy for Dr. Bob.
Thank you,
ClearSkies
Posted by halcyondaze on January 18, 2007, at 20:09:04
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left? » Karen44, posted by ClearSkies on January 18, 2007, at 19:54:52
... with the exception of a few of us, the people who post here do not work in psychiatry. The majority of the posters are not medical students, psychiatrists, or pharmacists. And the majority of the posters here are mentally ill themselves, and have had extensive experience as psychiatric patients. However, just like being a parent does not make one an expert on child development, being a psychiatric patient does not make one an expert in psychiatry.
I hope to see you post here and let us know how you're doing, Karen. I can tell that you are a very sensitive, caring soul and I wish you all the best in your journey out of hell.
Posted by Karen44 on January 18, 2007, at 20:12:20
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left? » Karen44, posted by ClearSkies on January 18, 2007, at 19:54:52
> > I guess I can't respond when people send me nasty posts, Clearskies. So I will not say anything anymore even if someone attacks me. To respond to attacks is obviously not okay I guess.
>
> It's fine to respond to posts that upset us, but we have to civil ourselves. That's why I issued the "please be civil" to you. It was not a personal attack on my part; and, as you can see, I posted to you in the capacity of deputy for Dr. Bob.
>
> Thank you,
> ClearSkies
>
>
I wish you would have intervened sooner then, and I would not have felt the need to defend myself.Karen
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2007, at 20:30:47
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by mindevolution on January 18, 2007, at 3:29:01
> perhaps you may enjoy this reference to consider some further alternatives? [xxx]
FYI, that page links to online pharmacies that could be used to import into the US prescription medication without a prescription, and the idea here is not to exchange information like that.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.