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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sdb on March 10, 2006, at 18:55:35
I ask me how often anxiety is a attendant symptom of depression or vice versa. I suppose that anxiety occurs very often with depression.
Any thoughts?
~sdb
Posted by JaclinHyde on March 10, 2006, at 19:15:37
In reply to How often is anxiety a cosymptom of depression?, posted by sdb on March 10, 2006, at 18:55:35
I think it does although not usually at the same moment. My doctor used to tell me, 'anxiety deals with thoughts of the future (even the immediate future) while depression deals with thoughts of the past.' That is the best way to look at it and it makes perfect sense.
JH
Posted by Phillipa on March 10, 2006, at 20:55:55
In reply to Re: How often is anxiety a cosymptom of depression?, posted by JaclinHyde on March 10, 2006, at 19:15:37
Well thant's a new way to look at it and it does make sense. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Glydin on March 10, 2006, at 21:09:22
In reply to Re: How often is anxiety a cosymptom of depression?, posted by JaclinHyde on March 10, 2006, at 19:15:37
For a long while I fought the idea that I had anything more that an Anxiety Disorder as a stand alone diagnosis. I held this belief very strongly and for a while, if I had control of what I presumed was only anxiety symptoms, I was fine. Slowly, this changed to where having good (almost complete) control of those symptoms did not impact my life enough to make for the quality of life I desired. In other words, things were still no where near "right" for me.
I don't think they are ALWAYS comorbid, but I know they were for me and I was unable to recognize that for a long time. Treating both made a huge difference.
Posted by Glydin on March 10, 2006, at 21:13:42
In reply to Re: How often is anxiety a cosymptom of depression? » JaclinHyde, posted by Glydin on March 10, 2006, at 21:09:22
Checked one too many blocks.
Didn't intend to direct to anyone in particular.
Posted by spriggy on March 11, 2006, at 1:17:30
In reply to My above post was just general posting, posted by Glydin on March 10, 2006, at 21:13:42
That's interesting you ask that because I was (and maybe still will) going to start a post similar in nature.
My anxiety seems to be right there along with depression.. SO much so that sometimes I can't even tell if I'm anxious or depressed or both.
It's weird. I hate it. I sometimes think I mostly just have anxiety; then when my anxiety is gone, I think I mostly just have depression- but for me, anxiety seems to be one of my #1 symptoms.
It's no fun.
Posted by yxibow on March 11, 2006, at 2:41:45
In reply to How often is anxiety a cosymptom of depression?, posted by sdb on March 10, 2006, at 18:55:35
> I ask me how often anxiety is a attendant symptom of depression or vice versa. I suppose that anxiety occurs very often with depression.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> ~sdbFor me -- especially in college and earlier, it was either treat the anxiety or the dysthymia -- invariably an SSRI was fine for depression but may have caused temporary or ongoing raise of anxiety. So then you fill in with a benzodiazepine. And the cycle goes on.
I think I suffer from both, although at the moment I have an entirely new and completely different life wasting somatiform condition that probably supercedes any of the above except treatment for secondary depression. The anxiety is masked subconsciously by the disorder.
Posted by med_empowered on March 11, 2006, at 3:42:09
In reply to Re: How often is anxiety a cosymptom of depression » sdb, posted by yxibow on March 11, 2006, at 2:41:45
what I think is interesting is how back in the day "anxiety" was the big problem (notice all the ads for valium and librium, and common use of tranquilizers) while "depression" was considered to be less frequent (it really wasn't until Prozac that "depression" became the stand-by diagnosis in psychiatry). Apparently, some studies show that anti-anxiety agents such as valium can help cases that today are considered "depression," and anti-depressants are sometimes helpful in "anxiety"..the overlap has **always** been considerable; the issue seems to be changing diagnosis criteria and patterns....for instance, Limbitrol (a librium/elavil combo) was introduced in the '70s, as was Triavil (elavil/perphenazine)..both were for mixed anxiety/depression, but it seems that only recently has psychiatry re-visited the connection between the two.
Posted by tizza on March 11, 2006, at 5:07:32
In reply to anxiety/depression, posted by med_empowered on March 11, 2006, at 3:42:09
> what I think is interesting is how back in the day "anxiety" was the big problem (notice all the ads for valium and librium, and common use of tranquilizers) while "depression" was considered to be less frequent (it really wasn't until Prozac that "depression" became the stand-by diagnosis in psychiatry). Apparently, some studies show that anti-anxiety agents such as valium can help cases that today are considered "depression," and anti-depressants are sometimes helpful in "anxiety"..the overlap has **always** been considerable; the issue seems to be changing diagnosis criteria and patterns....for instance, Limbitrol (a librium/elavil combo) was introduced in the '70s, as was Triavil (elavil/perphenazine)..both were for mixed anxiety/depression, but it seems that only recently has psychiatry re-visited the connection between the two.
As I have said before I have dx's both ways by numerous doctors. Half said I was depressed and that was causing my anxiety and the other half said that anxiety was causing me to experience depression amongst other things etc, GAD and social phobia. I still don't know what the hell is going on but at the moment I'm depression free but suffering from extreme GAD and social phobia. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Paul.
Posted by SLS on March 11, 2006, at 7:54:00
In reply to How often is anxiety a cosymptom of depression?, posted by sdb on March 10, 2006, at 18:55:35
> I ask me how often anxiety is a attendant symptom of depression or vice versa. I suppose that anxiety occurs very often with depression.
>
> Any thoughts?
"80 to 90% of individuals with Major Depressive Disorder also have anxiety symptoms (e.g., anxiety, obsessive preoccupations, panic attacks, phobias, and excessive health concerns)."http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-md01.html#Head_3
I think anxiety can be a symptom of major depressive disorder (MDD), and not necessarily be a separate comorbid disorder. To support such a conclusion with facts would require a great deal of research and citation, especially when there exists so much debate regarding this issue. I cannot use my own experience as a model. Being bipolar, it might not be valid for me to extrapolate this experience to MDD. However, for what it is worth, my anxiety waxes and wanes with the severity of depression. When the depression resolves, so does the anxiety.
From a psychosocial aspect, I can see how depression can produce anxiety as a consequence. Stress and anxiety occur when one is asked to perform a task that they are not fully equipped for. Depression certainly reduces one's ability to function as it depletes the resources necessary to perform these tasks. At least in this one context, anxiety can be a sign or symptom of depression. In addition, depression tends to alter one's perception of his environment and can exaggerate the magnitude of dangers and the immensity of tasks required to be surmounted for survival. Depression also tends to alter one's perception of their own capabilities and can produce an unreasonable underestimation of their abilities to cope with these exaggerated demands. This will certainly produce anxiety, especially when these things are reinforced by repeated failures.
From a psychobiological aspect, there are subtypes of MDD that are currently identified as being anxious or agitated. Here, anxiety is a primary symptom of the depressive disorder.
I think to properly identify the genesis of anxiety, it is important to fully describe how and when it manifests.
Are you in doubt of your current diagnosis?
I find the http://www.mentalhealth.com/ site helpful when reviewing the definitions of various mental disorders. It might be worthwhile to take a look at the criteria currently used to diagnose major depressive disorder and the various anxiety disorders.
For some anxiety disorders, the treatment is the same as for the depressive disorders. The same drugs are used to treat both (Effexor and Paxil, for example), hinting that there might be some overlap in etiologies. Some people feel that some anxiety disorders and MDD are simply different presentations of the same fundamental biological defect.
- Scott
Posted by naughtypuppy on March 11, 2006, at 10:41:01
In reply to Re: How often is anxiety a cosymptom of depression? » sdb, posted by SLS on March 11, 2006, at 7:54:00
For me it's the long sustained periods of anxiety that bring on the depression. "What's the point, it will never get better". As far as anti depressants go, I think doctors use them because there are very few meds that strictly address anxiety and they are just hoping that they will work, because they have few other meds to use. Notice in most studies, the subjects are screened to have major depressive disorder with no co-morbid disorders. Not very representitive of real life is it?
Posted by SLS on March 11, 2006, at 11:41:31
In reply to Re: How often is anxiety a cosymptom of depression?, posted by naughtypuppy on March 11, 2006, at 10:41:01
> For me it's the long sustained periods of anxiety that bring on the depression. "What's the point, it will never get better". As far as anti depressants go, I think doctors use them because there are very few meds that strictly address anxiety and they are just hoping that they will work, because they have few other meds to use. Notice in most studies, the subjects are screened to have major depressive disorder with no co-morbid disorders.
There are studies of GAD for which the presence of depression excludes one from the investigation.
> Not very representitive of real life is it?
What's not representative of real life - depression without anxiety or anxiety without depression?
- Scott
Posted by naughtypuppy on March 11, 2006, at 14:36:04
In reply to Re: How often is anxiety a cosymptom of depression? » naughtypuppy, posted by SLS on March 11, 2006, at 11:41:31
> > For me it's the long sustained periods of anxiety that bring on the depression. "What's the point, it will never get better". As far as anti depressants go, I think doctors use them because there are very few meds that strictly address anxiety and they are just hoping that they will work, because they have few other meds to use. Notice in most studies, the subjects are screened to have major depressive disorder with no co-morbid disorders.
>
> There are studies of GAD for which the presence of depression excludes one from the investigation.
>Yes there are, but the percentage of studies that filter subjects with major endogenous depression is greater than those with purely
anxiety disorders. It seems that the use of most medications is "off label" for anxiety, rather than the primary focus. The studies also don't seem to last more than 8 weeks, after that they don't seem to care if your arms fall off. A keg of beer and a bag of dope will make you feel good for 8 weeks.> > Not very representitive of real life is it?
>
> What's not representative of real life - depression without anxiety or anxiety without depression?
>
>
> - ScottProbably both, co-morbid conditions are very common with mood disorders, just look at the people on this board
Posted by sdb on March 11, 2006, at 15:19:53
In reply to Re: How often is anxiety a cosymptom of depression?, posted by naughtypuppy on March 11, 2006, at 14:36:04
Thank for every response giving me some more clarity.
~sdb
Posted by SLS on March 11, 2006, at 16:18:23
In reply to Re: How often is anxiety a cosymptom of depression?, posted by naughtypuppy on March 11, 2006, at 14:36:04
I have to agree with you. I think more attention should be paid to the phenomenology of anxiety as it exists with and without depression. It might help with treatment choices.
- Scott
Posted by psychopharmacon on March 12, 2006, at 3:17:50
In reply to How often is anxiety a cosymptom of depression?, posted by sdb on March 10, 2006, at 18:55:35
I have both anxiety and depression. At first I thought it was the anxiety that was making me depressed. So I made the mistake of taking meds only for the anxiety. I started taking benzos, which unfortunately made me only more depressed. So I started abusing them more and more because I felt increasingly depressed. It was a downward spiral.
(Later I selfmedicated on cannabis. Big mistake for a person with Paranoid Personality Disorder and Schizotypal Personality Disorder. Ended up at a mental hospital.)
This is the end of the thread.
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