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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by iforgotmypassword on December 13, 2005, at 9:31:16
i remember a long time ago when i took a lorazepam dose, i was suddenly actually able to go through with actions and actually talk about things unlike how i'd always be frozen by everything. this does not sound like the typical reason why people take benzos, but it was a very beneficial effect (that was unfortunately not able to be replicated by subsequent doses)... i was wondering if there are benzos that are specifically well known for being helpful with this... i've already tried klonopin 0.5 and 1mg before, and to be frank i have absolutely no idea what it did when i took it. i have a potentially difficult phone call to make, and every time i gear myself to make it i block and freeze. i can't do anything. which is pretty much how i am with everything else, but talking (albeit mindlessly) is pretty much all i can do without extreme effort.
Posted by Bill LL on December 13, 2005, at 15:31:56
In reply to best benzo for helping with doing things, posted by iforgotmypassword on December 13, 2005, at 9:31:16
I read a discussion written by Harvard docs who did a recent study on Klonopin. Only doses between 1 and 4 mg per day were effective. Doses less than 1 were not.
In addition, they said that tachyphylaxis (I probably mis-spelled it) does not usally occur. This means that you can keep taking Klonopin in this dose range for a long time. They said that if one feels depressed, they should add an antidepressant to the Klonopin.
So I would up the dose if I were you. If you definitely don't want to stay on Klonopin, you could try either Xanax xr or Lyrica (pregabalin). A study showed Lyrica to work as well as Klonopin for GAD.
For social anxiety, Lyrica did very well in the 600 mg group, but not in teh 150 mg group. Apparently they didn't have an in-between group.
I personally take Lyrica (600 mg half morning, half at around 6 pm). I take it with Lamictal (200 mg) and Provigil (400 mg I think).
I feel pretty good, but that doesn't mean that I will stop experimenting. None of these 3 have any side effects for me, except for a certain reduction in short term memory. I think that this is probably attributable to teh Lyrica.
Also, Lyrica made me dizzy the first day or two after I took it. DO NOT drive a car until your diziness goes a way.
> i remember a long time ago when i took a lorazepam dose, i was suddenly actually able to go through with actions and actually talk about things unlike how i'd always be frozen by everything. this does not sound like the typical reason why people take benzos, but it was a very beneficial effect (that was unfortunately not able to be replicated by subsequent doses)... i was wondering if there are benzos that are specifically well known for being helpful with this... i've already tried klonopin 0.5 and 1mg before, and to be frank i have absolutely no idea what it did when i took it. i have a potentially difficult phone call to make, and every time i gear myself to make it i block and freeze. i can't do anything. which is pretty much how i am with everything else, but talking (albeit mindlessly) is pretty much all i can do without extreme effort.
Posted by RobertDavid on December 13, 2005, at 16:35:51
In reply to Re: best benzo for helping with doing things, posted by Bill LL on December 13, 2005, at 15:31:56
My experience is that Lyrica produced side affects so that I was unable to get to a theraputic dose (couldn't go higher than 150mgs). So for me Klonopin has been the answer for anxiety (2mgs at night). I agree that doses need to be somewhere between 1 and 4 mgs to be most affective.
If you need an energy boost or are only mildly depressed I would add Provigil (50 to 100mgs) to the Klonopin (or Lyrica). Seems the side affect profile of Provigil is far less that that of many of the anti depressants and if you're truly just looking for an energy boost or mental clarity it's a "cleaner" option vs most anti depressants.
All this stuff is just trial and error, everyone is different. Just my take, good luck!
Posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2005, at 22:42:30
In reply to Re: best benzo for helping with doing things, posted by RobertDavid on December 13, 2005, at 16:35:51
need to look into providgil before my pdoc appointment next week. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by RobertDavid on December 14, 2005, at 2:37:18
In reply to Re: best benzo for helping with doing things » RobertDavid, posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2005, at 22:42:30
> need to look into providgil before my pdoc appointment next week. Fondly, Phillipa
Phillipa:
I continue to go back and use Provigil on an as needed basis. It's been the best med I've found for energy, motivation, getting stuff done without the weird side affects I get from SSRI's and other meds that are supposed to help with that sort of stuff.
I have a doctors appointment next week and am going to discus perhaps the best way to blend the two meds (klonopin and provigil). Now I take all the klonopin at night as I like waking up and not taking a morning dose. But when I take provigil sometimes I feel I'd like a touch more of the affects of klonopin to go with it during the day.
My current thought (which I'll discuss with my doctor) is to take say 1.5mgs klonopin at night, .5 klonopin in the day with 50mgs provigil in the morning. I suspect it could be the blend I've been looking for, fine tuning it if you will.
I must admit I keep coming back to the provigil/klopopin combo, just think I need to tweak the dose/timing a bit and I may be set. I'm convinced klonopin is 75% of the solution.
The more I research and read about provigil the more I like it. It only takes one day to see if you get a positive response. Unlike coffee, you don't get the jitters. It's not in the same family as diet pills so it's not supposed to be addictive. Seems you can take it daily or as needed and change doses around what you expect/need from your day.
I have been busy tonight writing tasks I need to get done for tomorrow, in fact I can't sleep so I came to the computer. So my solution tonight is 3mgs Lunesta, then 50mgs provigil tomorrow and I know what to expect for tomorrow, a productive upbeat day.
Provigil is expensive and if your insurance won't cover it get the 200mg tablets and either break it in quarters and see how well a 50mg dose works or cut in half and try 100.
I think this mood brightner, energy booster, memory enhancer drug shows real promise and without the baggage of the older drugs.
My mom is 83 and like me takes 1mg klonopin at night for SAD (this stuff seems to run in families). The klonopin helps her anxiety, but none of the other typical anti depresents work for her energy, mild depression (SSRI's, Wellbutrin, etc.) so she's going to take a small dose (25 to 50 mgs) provigil and I bet it will be the ticket for her.
Sorry to ramble on, but I think this may be a much better choice, a least something worth trying for those that have anxiety with low mood/energy/depression and where other meds failed.
I'm relatively new to this site and you're a savvy contributer here on psycho bable. I just want to point out to you that I think highly of you for your considerate posts to so many.
Just think you should be acknowledged. There are lots here like you and I think it's a great place to share and even vent at times. Glad to have found this place.........
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on December 14, 2005, at 16:59:38
In reply to Re: best benzo for helping with doing things » Phillipa, posted by RobertDavid on December 14, 2005, at 2:37:18
Hi!
I was wondering what your diagonsis is? If you don't mind me asking. I mean, isn't it abit contradictory to take something to help you sleep and then something to not make you sleep and give you energy during the day? I don't understand what the rationale is.
I would love you get my hands on some provigil and/or benzos. Sadly I live in the UK and my chances are very very slim. I am deeply envious of all you folks who can actually get the meds that you need. Or maybe its a good thing to try and be as drug free as possible. Sometimes it sounds as if pdocs prescibe some serious drugs quite readily. I mean I guess you can't be on these things forever and I suppose its best to kinda learn how to deal with things without drugs. Like you can't pop drugs all the time for every slight thing you/the pdoc might think is wrong with you. Or like you wanna take something to help you do the housework. I suppose.... I'm digressing....Sigh.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on December 14, 2005, at 17:11:22
In reply to Re: best benzo for helping with doing things, posted by Meri-Tuuli on December 14, 2005, at 16:59:38
Hiya, sorry that last post was abit weird, please do ignore it! I'm feeling rather frustrated at the moment, because I'm sick of being depressed and having no energy or motivation and sadly GPs here don't really take these things seriously and I would love to try something like provigil, but unfortunatly you can only get it here if you are a chronic shift worker or something. Guidelines clearly state that it shouldn't be given to people with depression/no energy etc. I've thought about pretending to be a shift worker, but even then I doubt they'd give it out. ARGHHHHH! Same goes for benzos, should only be given for short term only. Unless you're older and have taken them for years.
On the upside I am supposed to be seeing a proper pdoc in the new year who will hopefully prescribe what I need, although I am not getting my hopes up.
Sigh. Sorry once again!
Posted by iforgotmypassword on December 14, 2005, at 18:10:28
In reply to Re: best benzo for helping with doing things, posted by Meri-Tuuli on December 14, 2005, at 16:59:38
sorry, i don't know what to suggest... if you are in the uk, do they still prescribe tricyclics... when i took desipramine it was pretty stimulant like... that is to say it was very effective against reversed vegetative symptoms (oversleeping, overeating). it did not cause jitteriness, but i think it may have actually exacerbating anger outburst and irritability problems over time. still it didn't cause the immediate awful effects stims have given me often. unfortunately i can't really say it helped with focus, motivation or even energy to a great degree... though i would notice those problems with get much worse if i stopped taking the med abrubtly. it helped me have short faint patches of feeling again that gave me hope... but in the end thats all they were. :( it may be a med worth trying for you though, in me i noted it was practically just as effective at the low 50mg dose as it was at the max 300mg dose. it's the strongest norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor available i think, and it is pretty selective. you should look into possible cardiotoxicity though... long term periodic checking of BP and heart rate may be a good idea, as it prolly is with stims as well. (my experiences mixing desipramine and stims always ended in disaster though, intense agitation)
Posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2005, at 20:18:53
In reply to Re: best benzo for helping with doing things » Phillipa, posted by RobertDavid on December 14, 2005, at 2:37:18
Thanks so much for the compliment and taking the time to post a long response. I don't have good insurance for meds. I have Medicare A andB for disability due to my dx. About how much does the providgil cost? Thanks again Fondly, Phillipa
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